View Full Version : New skyscraper?



Midtowner
06-02-2007, 11:14 PM
I heard a rumor today that Devon might be building a new skyscraper where the Santa Fe parking garage is right now.

Pretty credible source.

John
06-03-2007, 01:51 AM
I heard a rumor today that Devon might be building a new skyscraper where the Santa Fe parking garage is right now.

Pretty credible source.

Wouldn't be suprised... They're spread out all over downtown.

PUGalicious
06-03-2007, 05:37 AM
Isn't there substantial vacant space in the existing skyscrapers downtown?

HOT ROD
06-03-2007, 07:12 AM
I think the substantial vacant space is mostly Class C space, we have very little B space, and most of the A space is not vacant.

The Class C space is being absorbed into condos so that will take some of the hit out of downtown. My biggest question is what to do with KM?

but I do hope Devon can build a new signature tower. Wasn't there also a 40-storey proposal 6 months ago? I wonder what happened with that or is it still being worked out. That would be great, two new towers (hopefully both over the current tallest)!

redland
06-03-2007, 08:08 AM
Our skyline really needs a new additon, and I would love to see a new skyscraper in the offing. However even with new residential use absorbing some of the vacant office space, we still have too much of it. Especially worrisome is the First National tower. This historic art deco building cannot be allowed to go on life support, and there is still much vacant space in it. Devon however might want to make a statement with a new tower of its own (I hope they do), but I think that the 40-story rumor of a few months back was just that---a rumor.

Midtowner
06-03-2007, 08:48 AM
The person I spoke with had no reason to lie -- and every reason to know.

But yeah, I wouldn't use that to justify raising this above rumor status.

metro
06-03-2007, 07:55 PM
I think the substantial vacant space is mostly Class C space, we have very little B space, and most of the A space is not vacant.

The Class C space is being absorbed into condos so that will take some of the hit out of downtown. My biggest question is what to do with KM?

but I do hope Devon can build a new signature tower. Wasn't there also a 40-storey proposal 6 months ago? I wonder what happened with that or is it still being worked out. That would be great, two new towers (hopefully both over the current tallest)!

Yeah, that was pure OKCTalk rumor and nothing more.

AFCM
06-03-2007, 10:31 PM
Oklahoma City really is due for a new tower. Just about every other city has added new towers downtown recently or at least has one proposed to be built within the next few years. I'm not one to compare, but when cities like Boise and Louisville are building new towers I have to wonder when OKC will be next.

I trust your information and source are correct, Midtowner. I mean, we have to add a new tower eventually.

jbrown84
06-03-2007, 11:36 PM
Well, I'm sure Devon could find Class A space somewhere, but they would continue to be more and more spread out. A company of their size and growth should have its own tower, and most likely wants one. I've heard they don't want to "be in the real estate business" like Chesapeake by building their own, but a developer might have a deal to build a tower with plans to lease 50 floors to them. This could be the Marcus/Weeman project. A single Devon tower would be HUGE, because they currently occupy most of Chase, all of their headquarters building, and several other places.

And I sure would love to see that ugly Santa Fe garage go. It's embarassing to have looming over the Skirvin IMO. And for that reason it makes sense that this might be the Marcus/Weeman project. Can you imagine how much better that plaza would look with a gleaming new Devon Tower flanked by the Skirvin and Chase?

allseeingeye
06-03-2007, 11:47 PM
And I sure would love to see that ugly Santa Fe garage go. It's embarassing to have looming over the Skirvin IMO.

If the parking garage is tore down, another will have to be built. Parking is already an issue downtown. Downtown needs more parking than it does office space! We already need another garage in Bricktown.

OKCResearchGuy
06-04-2007, 01:27 AM
While the rumor of a new Devon tower may be true, I don't see it being located where the Santa Fe garage currently is. For one, downtown cannot afford to lose that many parking spaces. Lack of parking is still one of the big problems in luring large office users to downtown. Also, that garage is a big money maker for COPTA and I don't see them giving it up. I have it on good authority that Devon is looking at options and those options do not the Kerr McGee building or First National Center. However, it appears American Fidelity may be eyeing the Kerr McGee buildng and there may be a big announcement for First National Center later this year.

John
06-04-2007, 02:18 AM
We already need another garage in Bricktown.

The one on Reno just east of the tracks should get going sometime soon... At least it will look nice, as opposed to the eyesore that is the 'Power Alley' garage.

Midtowner
06-04-2007, 06:54 AM
While the rumor of a new Devon tower may be true, I don't see it being located where the Santa Fe garage currently is. For one, downtown cannot afford to lose that many parking spaces. Lack of parking is still one of the big problems in luring large office users to downtown. Also, that garage is a big money maker for COPTA and I don't see them giving it up. I have it on good authority that Devon is looking at options and those options do not the Kerr McGee building or First National Center. However, it appears American Fidelity may be eyeing the Kerr McGee buildng and there may be a big announcement for First National Center later this year.

Actually, a buddy of mine did some work at the bond rating company which uses COTPA. At least as of two years ago, the Santa Fe parking garage had yet to turn a profit. Blame the excessive management fees, cleaning fees, etc. paid by COTPA to friends of the trust.

So no, the garage really hasn't been all that profitable. Also, it's a public trust -- history has shown that these are fairly easy manipulable if one has the money to do so. Just food for thought though. I don't know one way or the other, but to me, the Santa Fe garage is more feasible than you make it out to be.

jbrown84
06-04-2007, 07:57 AM
While parking is an issue in Bricktown, I'm not sure it is in the CBD. I've never really heard that, at least not since the Galleria garage was completed. And I'm sure this new tower would have to have some kind of underground or attached garage.

BDP
06-04-2007, 08:32 AM
I don't even think parking is an issue in bricktown. I've never had problem in bricktown or the CBD finding parking, usually for free and usually within 10 minutes of arriving downtown. In fact, I was in bricktown a couple of weeks ago and there were more people on the street than I had ever seen. Nevertheless, I found free parking within 15 minutes and it would have been even faster if I didn't hold out for better proximity to my first destination.

Now that's not to say that some businesses aren't sensitive to the fact that many in this market get winded just thinking about walking three blocks from a garage to their office (and it's very hard to walk three blocks in any direction downtown and not run into a parking lot). It's sad, but it's kind of true. In most markets there is a lot less parking downtown, it's much more expensive, and much less convenient. Of course, many of those markets have a viable public transit system, so a lot of people who work downtown don't have to drive and park, but often many still do.

Losing Santa Fe might make it a little tighter, but it's always been a option of last resort for me and I think I've only had to use it maybe two or three times for any of the events I've gone to in the past 5 years or so. In any event, I can't imagine Devon building a new building and not at least putting in parking for that buildings capacity.

Midtowner
06-04-2007, 08:36 AM
It had not occurred to me until just now.. but COTPA also might have no problem unloading the Santa Fe garage -- primarily because they want to make their buddies rich by issuing new bonds to build a new garage.

I'm sure that a condition of Devon taking that land will include paying the remaining debt on the remaining bonds for that garage.

jbrown84
06-04-2007, 09:17 AM
I actually had a terrible parking situation in Bricktown a couple weeks ago. It was Big XII Baseball, and I drove around and around and every garage, every lot was full. I finally found some spots in the main street lot below the Finley Bridge. But that was a long ways from my destination of Falcone's.

BDP
06-04-2007, 12:03 PM
I think it was the night of the Tool concert and there was some baseball going on as well. It also looked like there was some grad parties or maybe some pre prom dates going on. I guess I just have the mojo. :) Actually, my wife and some friends met me and they had no problem either. The theater parking seems to turn over pretty fast.

Considering that you can get parking at all when so many events are going on at once is a testiment that we have plenty of parking, imo. I'd hate for us to build enough parking so that everyone could park right next to their destination when all of the venues have events going on. There'd be no room left for any new stuff.

I'll PM you some parking mojo for your next trip, so you'll have some better luck. ;)

jbrown84
06-04-2007, 12:06 PM
Yeah, its the first time I've really had a problem and really been frustrated. But soon I'll be living down there and won't need to drive. :D

metro
06-04-2007, 12:22 PM
I actually had a terrible parking situation in Bricktown a couple weeks ago. It was Big XII Baseball, and I drove around and around and every garage, every lot was full. I finally found some spots in the main street lot below the Finley Bridge. But that was a long ways from my destination of Falcone's.

I think you just proved Midtowners point of Oklahoman's having a mentality to park right where they are going. This is only two blocks away from your destination. Not far IMO. I wish more Oklahoman's would get used to it. I'd rather see us have less surface parking IMO and have people walk a block or so farther from a garage.

jbrown84
06-04-2007, 12:51 PM
I think you just proved Midtowners point of Oklahoman's having a mentality to park right where they are going. This is only two blocks away from your destination. Not far IMO. I wish more Oklahoman's would get used to it. I'd rather see us have less surface parking IMO and have people walk a block or so farther from a garage.

If you go back and look at my posts on this topic in the past, you'll see that I have no problem walking. I also just mentioned that I'll now be able to walk from the Park Harvey. My frustration was because I had driven around for 40 minutes and all the lots and garages were full. I was meeting friends to "tailgate" from the Power Alley garage. They had already been there for an hour, and I still had to go to an ATM to get cash to pay for parking (which was difficult because I couldn't park to get to an ATM), then find a lot with space, then walk to Falcone's to get my food, then walk back to Power Alley to meet them, and I had my camera and a bunch of Dr. Peppers I wanted to take up there with me.

bombermwc
06-04-2007, 02:43 PM
I see absolutely no reason whatsoever ever ever that someone would take the parking garage space to build a tower. Yes, we all want a new tower, but there's no way the city would let someone tear down Santa Fe. It's too neccessary for downtown. Plus it's cost-prohibitive. There is plenty empty or cheaper land around the area to build on. I would say that the source is missinformed.

SWOKC 4 me
06-04-2007, 03:05 PM
I go to Bricktown as well as the CBD quite often and have NEVER had a problem finding parking. ... And most of the time for free. However, I do not mind walking. I have parked in bricktown for free and walked to Kerr Park for fireworks on New Years eve before. Granted it is a pretty good walk but my parking was free and I like walking!

I have been there for the Big XII Basketball tournament, the Big XII Baseball tournament, Opening Night, 4th of July, Hornets games, Redhawks games, Blazers games, the Arts Festival and many other holidays, large events and concerts and I very, very, rarely pay for parking. ...And No I do not usually drive around for long periods looking for parking. If I do have a problem finding immediate parking in some of the more obvious areas I do have a few "secret" places I look... and yes they are public parking and are legal!

I have never really understood why people complain about parking availability.

Having made that point, I would like to see more parking garages instead of all of the surface lots. Let's not take up precious land for surface parking lots.

I do see the need for a brand new parking garage in some area of the CBD if they do build a new tower where the Santa Fe garage is. Especially for those that work downtown and more so when all of the office space including the new tower, if it ever comes to be, fills up. hopefully they would build a large well designed functional garage that is also asthetically pleasing!

HOT ROD
06-04-2007, 05:09 PM
I do see the need for a brand new parking garage in some area of the CBD if they do build a new tower where the Santa Fe garage is. Especially for those that work downtown and more so when all of the office space including the new tower, if it ever comes to be, fills up. hopefully they would build a large well designed functional garage that is also asthetically pleasing!

I think we need garages with retail on the first floor!!!! Instead of these vertical parking lots, why not have retail space on the lower level. That way, the garage could sort of pay for itself with the rent from the streetfronts AND the parking.

I always thought Santa Fe was a mis-designed garage and should be razed, as should several other garages in the CBD. If they were to put retail in on the ground floor of Santa Fe, Kerr, and Walker (and Galleria), that would be a great start (without having to tear down and rebuild)!! Sure, we'd lose some spots in each to shell in the retail - but I think its worth it and certainly would be worth it to downtown!!!!

A very easy way to add in retail into the existing downtown.

jbrown84
06-04-2007, 05:21 PM
Well, the Main Street garage has a lot of retail on the ground floor. The Santa Fe has the OU downtown branch or whatever, and the Kerr has Triangle A&E. The one across from the bus station has some ground floor retail space that has been empty for several years. Power Alley also has some retail.

HOT ROD
06-04-2007, 05:26 PM
I'd hardly call those pedestrian oriented retail (except Main street, which is ok).

Im talking about retail outlets where you have salons, boutiques, restaurants, mom/pop shops so forth, not some dumpy OU whatever that always looks empty.

What about some fast food outlets? That would be good, as Kim has told us. We should have diversity downtown and not JUST high priced restaurants in Bricktown or restaurants ONLY located in food courts (and open only for luch for that matter)!

From an outsider view, OKC looks very bad downtown with regard to retail. My girlfriend asked me "where's the retail". And Im sure you all have heard this before now, from other tourists and businesspeople!!

I think shelling in retail into those garages is a quick and easy fix that could put some life into downtown without having to incurr tremendous cost. If we would have found some retail downtown - we/she surely would have dropped over $1000 the weekend we were there.

Missed opportunity OKC!!!