For the past several months there has been several people who have felt the need to not believe certain things I have said on this board. I have tried the best way I know how to defend those statements, however, it appears to me I have not succeded in that mission. It has never been, nor will it ever be my intention to upset anyone.

First, let me explain the use of all caps. When I use them on a single word, it is not "yelling." It is empysis on a word. I realize the internet lingo says caps mean yelling, however, there is a gray area there... Ie: an exception.

I will also tell you when I made certain statements, they were made long before my dad died, however, they were said by him when he was ill. Also, some statements I have made that are quite factual can not be proven in part because records were destroyed several years ago. Long before the internet, therefore, you can not recover them. You may say to yourselves "but I saw the records of some Army veterans on the internet." Yes. You probably did. However, there were several records buildings in several states. It just happened to be the one my dad's records was in burned several years ago. I had forgotten this, however, I also felt it was not relevant.

My dad was not only a stock broker-dealer, he was also a real-estate investor and in the oil exploration and investment industry. Statements I have made came from his expertese and his business experience. They are facts... Not my imagination. I try to illistrate things the best way I can and that way is to rely on my dad's vast knowledge. Case in point is when I mentioned the price of oil in 1982 vs. now and the price of a gallon of gas comparing those two eras. I am trying to show why we need to complain and lobby for re-regulation. These are two examples.

My dad taught me to be a proud man. To worship the flag as if it were a God. To honor the constitution and the bill of rights. And to stand up with pride and thank those who have fought for our freedom... And are doing so now and will in the future. He also taught me to respect the people of earlier generations and to learn from their wisdom. What younger people would call life experience, which is the same thing.

Also keep in mind, his death has been very hard for me. Andy Anderson was my idol, my inspiration, my guide, my teacher, and my mentor. When he died, I really did not react as I thought. In fact, I barely shed a tear.

Yesterday, I went to the Oklahoma Historical Society to volunteer with the Citizens Academy Alumni. I went to the museum afterward and saw some things that belonged to people we knew, or things that were major parts of my childhood and my family history. As I drove home, I got upset because it reminded me of my dad and the political times we had. You see, political seasons were our football season. They were our main bonding. He taught me so much about the subject, I became an expert. You may not think so, however, it is quite true.

If I have come on too strong in your opinion, I appologize. I also ask you with all due respect to please respect my dad's memory and let him rest by not mentioning him. If I do, please just bypass it. I only wish you could have known him and listened to him speak about current events, politics and the military. Would you agree with him? Maybe, maybe not. However, a great deal of what he told me over the years, I have tried to pass to you. I hope what he predicted for the possible future of this country does not come true. However, unless we change course, I am sorry to say, it probably will.

Again. I appologize for any misunderstandings. I will let you be the judge. All I can say is it is up to you to believe what I say or not. One other request. If you do not believe it, please do not tell me. Think in reverse and make the choice.

As the late Red Skelton always said to close the show "good night and may God bless."

Glad you finally addressed some things mra...You are definitely one of the most colorful posters on this forum, but you can also be an extremely frustrating read

I can appreciate where you are coming from, but I also hope you can understand how some of us get very frustrated with your debate techniques

No matter what I can say w/o a doubt you make this forum more interesting :tiphat:

Carry on

thanks for the public apology and explanation. take this with all due respect, mranderson... some of the things you are asking are unrealistic and unreasonable.

this is a public forum where people discuss current issues and their opinions, beliefs and values. if you post your take on an issue, you can't expect everybody else in the world to be silent when they disagree with you. if you don't want people to question or debate your position, then you shouldn't post. the same is true with your father. i can certainly understand that you held him in very high esteem. however, if you want to let his memory rest then you shouldn't bring him up in conversation. you can't expect the whole world to play by your rules.

i do hope that you figure out the art of polite and intelligent discourse. -M

I try to illistrate things the best way I can and that way is to rely on my dad's vast knowledge.


Your best bet is to rely on your own knowledge.

If you don't possess it, you should try to obtain it for yourself. You can't rely on anyone else.

My dad was a spousal abuser/wife beater and neglectful parent - but, he taught me everything I know, right?

So, should I do the same to my family?

No.. time to move on and live my own life based on my own life experiences and knowledge.

Parents should be revered and respected I agree.. but after fifty years.. some of your own life experiences should carry some weight.

Again. I appologize for any misunderstandings. I will let you be the judge. All I can say is it is up to you to believe what I say or not. One other request. If you do not believe it, please do not tell me. Think in reverse and make the choice.

So if people think you're spouting off B.S. as fact, they should just let it slide?

So if people think you're spouting off B.S. as fact, they should just let it slide?

Yes. They should make their own decision, however, by making it public, it creates tension and more. In short, I do not tell them they are spouting bs.

For those that may not know, CM Anderson was the original partner of the famous OKC broker and investment firm, Anderson, Bryant and Company. For those that have lived in OKC a long time, like me, you'll remember Anderson, Bryant and Company. They were one of the most respected brokers/investment firms in their days.

Also, I know mranderson has made several claims that he knows some VIP's. One claimed connection was with the late State Sen. Keith Leftwich. I found this obituary from Keith Leftwich. Ends up, Mr. A is correct.......Keith was a broker for Mr. A's dad's broker firm, Anderson, Bryant and Company.

Here's the link:

DLC: Oklahoma State Sen. Keith Leftwich, 49, Dies of Cancer (http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=85&subid=65&contentid=252060)

I can't verify everything for sure, but I know Keith attended CM Anderson's funeral, and he can tell you that CM Anderson was a very influential and respected businessman.
Obviously, the congressional medal of honor claim may have been made under false info., but Keith and I can back up most of what has been stated about the late Anderson, just by the articles that were presented at his funeral.

Why does it matter if anyone believes you or not? Second, who says you have to defend your point of view? You have a right to your opinion and so does everyone eles. I think you tend dwell on those people that post things for the mere purpose to see what you will say next.

If I where you I would be selective on the topics I argued. If someone has an honest challenge, by all means initate a debate. If someone is clearly just trying to irritate you, ignore it.

If someone is clearly just trying to irritate you, ignore it.

Sound advice, for many, not just the OP. It is difficult at times to know who's trolling whom, but one thing is clear. The bait sales are way up lately, irrespective of who's doing the buying.

For those that may not know, CM Anderson was the original partner of the famous OKC broker and investment firm, Anderson, Bryant and Company. For those that have lived in OKC a long time, like me, you'll remember Anderson, Bryant and Company. They were one of the most respected brokers/investment firms in their days.

Also, I know mranderson has made several claims that he knows some VIP's. One claimed connection was with the late State Sen. Keith Leftwich. I found this obituary from Keith Leftwich. Ends up, Mr. A is correct.......Keith was a broker for Mr. A's dad's broker firm, Anderson, Bryant and Company.

Here's the link:

DLC: Oklahoma State Sen. Keith Leftwich, 49, Dies of Cancer (http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=85&subid=65&contentid=252060)

I can't verify everything for sure, but I know Keith attended CM Anderson's funeral, and he can tell you that CM Anderson was a very influential and respected businessman.
Obviously, the congressional medal of honor claim may have been made under false info., but Keith and I can back up most of what has been stated about the late Anderson, just by the articles that were presented at his funeral.

Okay--so I know anderson's been through a lot...but he's pulling on his dad's experience, not his own.

My dad drove a semi for years, and as a kid, he shared some of his knowledge with me. Does that make me an expert? No!

And just because his dad possibly did all this stuff also doesn't mean he was an expert, either.

Leave someone else's testimony out of things, and make up your own arguments, anderson. Then people will take you more seriously.

You're not the only one who's hurting--you aren't the only one who's father died in the past year, you know. But you don't see other people trying to make themselves look better by pulling the dead dad card and then saying, well, he's dead. I can't tell you that.

If you do not believe it, please do not tell me.

That alone tells me Anderson hasn't changed one bit (not that he should change for anyone on this board). ANDERSON - if you don't want to be corrected - THEN DON'T POST!

It is not like it is your statements of opinion that draw so much criticism - it is most often your misstatements of facts.

FYI: I couldn't care less what a member's (any member's) parents resume is. How does being a "respected broker" or anything else make ANDERSON an expert on anything?

If an adult (any adult) can't make a point without playing the "my daddy/mommy said so" card, that person needs to get a life.

The apology was hollow at best and attention seeking at most.

Accuse me of casting all the bait you want. I call it like I see it.

The best advice I can give is to either put a disclaimer with statements of fact you are not 100% sure of (ex. "in my opinion" "I could be wrong here" "I always thought" etc.) or Google it or otherwise try to verify something before posting nonsense.

Anderson...for which conflict/war was your father awarded the medal and which medal of honor is it? Do you still have it?

He also taught me to respect the people of earlier generations and to learn from their wisdom. What younger people would call life experience, which is the same thing.

He taught me so much about the subject, I became an expert. You may not think so, however, it is quite true.

Trying to keep my comments in the positive - Have you not been able to learn that old folks don't have all the answers, and you should respect the opinions of everyone? Respecting is not the same as agreeing, although many in this forum younger than my 49 years have taught me.

As to the subject of politics, strong opinions (and probably shared bias) does not make one an expert. An expert fulling understands all the tiny details of introducing/progressing/stalling/amending legislative items. I would imagine the only "expert" at state level is locked away in a dungeon near NE 23rd street.

Response, please-

you shouldn't have to apologize! it's a messageboard. geez. everyone is entitled to have free speech regardless of who it annoys or irritates. i guess you just have to look to kenny for some words of wisdom on knowing when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, and know when to run. lol. i've ran from several topics on here, some of you can be harsh! but i've also learned a lot and had some interesting conversations.

keep on rockin' mr. a :tiphat:

I have no intention of disrespecting your father. He may or may not have been an expert on some things, but I did not know him and have no right to make an assessment.

However, the problem is that you keep using him as an excuse to label opinion as fact.

Mranderson, I had no intention of showing a lack of respect for your father. In fact, I had no intention of giving you anything less than your due. I will have to call B.S. on the "records were destroyed" tactic. Politics may be your strong suit, but the military is mine. Medal of Honor records are housed seperately and are certified complete from the initial award (March, 1863) to present day.

you shouldn't have to apologize! it's a messageboard. geez. everyone is entitled to have free speech regardless of who it annoys or irritates. i guess you just have to look to kenny for some words of wisdom on knowing when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, and know when to run. lol. i've ran from several topics on here, some of you can be harsh! but i've also learned a lot and had some interesting conversations.

keep on rockin' mr. a :tiphat:


The problem with free speech is that others are free to question it.
It's a two-way street.

Mranderson, I had no intention of showing a lack of respect for your father. In fact, I had no intention of giving you anything less than your due. I will have to call B.S. on the "records were destroyed" tactic. Politics may be your strong suit, but the military is mine. Medal of Honor records are housed seperately and are certified complete from the initial award (March, 1863) to present day.

I am sorry you doubt what both of my parents told me numerous times over the course of my lifetime. Regardless, what I said was the truth.

Anderson...for which conflict/war was your father awarded the medal and which medal of honor is it? Do you still have it?

The only war my dad was in was WWII. He was in Normandy and recieved credit for the Battle of the Bulge. That is where I will leave it, please.

okay, it seems several are tossing in their own $0.02 on this, so I guess I will, too.

mranderson, there's so much I'd like to write here, but honestly trying to condense it into a coherent, brief few paragraphs seems impossible. I'm going to try nonetheless.

First, in a general way, let me offer that you need to consider your audience. The one theme I detect in your statement, while thoughtful, is that it is very self-centered - not in the "egotistical" sense, but in "this is how everyone should interpret what I write" sense. You specify how people should interpret "all caps" when the entire Internet, as a matter of protocol, defines it differently. You want to be able to claim "bs" on someone, but don't want anyone to reply in kind because it creates what you consider to be "tension." The whole point of a forum like this is two-way interaction. You just can't have one without the other. It isn't just about what you think, or write, it's about how the exchange shapes perceptions (if at all) among the broader community.

Next, let me offer something about your style. You make it very, very difficult for anyone to agree with you. Your attitudes are so polarizing, and your commentary often so tiringly bereft of the possibility anyone else has a valid opinion, that your own thoughts usually dominate an entire thread. There have been times, quite honestly, that I have found myself agreeing with you on certain opinions, but in many cases agreeing with you cannot sound like consensus on a point, but a gravitas on "taking mranderson's side." Maybe that's perception on my part, or readers' part, so its not entirely fair to put it all at your feet. The point is that the extreme nature of your opinions and how you express them often make it very difficult to offer you support for a position in any particular thread. You may not think you want or need support, but if you can gain credible allies, you might gain credibility yourself.

Lastly, you take extreme positions on nearly everything. That's your (and everyone else's) prerogative. But those extreme positions come with a price. You'd better be able to defend those positions, or you will be skewered here or in any other broader Internet forum. You cannot, in my opinion at least, make a strong opinion, then tell everyone else they (in effect) can't have a contrary opinion because it creates tension to you (see the 1st paragraph).

I'm not in much of a position to directly refute any assertions of fact you (or anyone else, for that matter) make based on your personal experiences. But using the banner of "personal experiences" is a very dangerous sword to wield; if you use it as a "first-defense" each and every time you aver a particular position, it will be (right or wrong) seen as a cop-out.

I can only speak for myself, but I endeavor to the extent possible to make sure my basic grammar and spelling are as correct as possible. To me, nothing weakens an Internet forum argument more than weakness in either or both areas. I recognize most people don't care about such things, but to me they're important. If you have a strong opinion about something, and want to express that opinion, I would encourage you to care enough to make sure what you post is spelled correctly and phrased coherently. As an example, you have a post in another thread about KFOR and the "Berry's," and it doesn't take that much effort to discover that the Berry's on KFOR are actually the Barry's. Yes, it's a nitpick, but if you're taking the time to post, why not take the time to spell things correctly?

I've already gone on too long, and for that I apologize, but the points here are just the perspectives of one among many posters who has been simultaneously interested, insulted, irritated, curious, embarassed, and disdainful of your opinions not nearly so much for the opinions themselves, but for the way you choose to express them. When you choose that path (and you have that right within the rules of the board), you make it hard for us to lend you the credibility you might otherwise deserve. Considering that "road not taken" might make the journey for all of us just a bit more enjoyable.

I hope that makes some degree of sense.

Regards,
-soonerdave

To me, nothing weakens an Internet forum argument more than weakness in either or both areas. I recognize most people don't care about such things, but to me they're important. If you have a strong opinion about something, and want to express that opinion, I would encourage you to care enough to make sure what you post is spelled correctly and phrased coherently. As an example, you have a post in another thread about KFOR and the "Berry's," and it doesn't take that much effort to discover that the Berry's on KFOR are actually the Barry's. Yes, it's a nitpick, but if you're taking the time to post, why not take the time to spell things correctly?

I agree. As an expert, you should also know that it's "political", not "politicle".

okay, it seems several are tossing in their own $0.02 on this, so I guess I will, too.

mranderson, there's so much I'd like to write here, but honestly trying to condense it into a coherent, brief few paragraphs seems impossible. I'm going to try nonetheless.

First, in a general way, let me offer that you need to consider your audience. The one theme I detect in your statement, while thoughtful, is that it is very self-centered - not in the "egotistical" sense, but in "this is how everyone should interpret what I write" sense. You specify how people should interpret "all caps" when the entire Internet, as a matter of protocol, defines it differently. You want to be able to claim "bs" on someone, but don't want anyone to reply in kind because it creates what you consider to be "tension." The whole point of a forum like this is two-way interaction. You just can't have one without the other. It isn't just about what you think, or write, it's about how the exchange shapes perceptions (if at all) among the broader community.

Next, let me offer something about your style. You make it very, very difficult for anyone to agree with you. Your attitudes are so polarizing, and your commentary often so tiringly bereft of the possibility anyone else has a valid opinion, that your own thoughts usually dominate an entire thread. There have been times, quite honestly, that I have found myself agreeing with you on certain opinions, but in many cases agreeing with you cannot sound like consensus on a point, but a gravitas on "taking mranderson's side." Maybe that's perception on my part, or readers' part, so its not entirely fair to put it all at your feet. The point is that the extreme nature of your opinions and how you express them often make it very difficult to offer you support for a position in any particular thread. You may not think you want or need support, but if you can gain credible allies, you might gain credibility yourself.

Lastly, you take extreme positions on nearly everything. That's your (and everyone else's) prerogative. But those extreme positions come with a price. You'd better be able to defend those positions, or you will be skewered here or in any other broader Internet forum. You cannot, in my opinion at least, make a strong opinion, then tell everyone else they (in effect) can't have a contrary opinion because it creates tension to you (see the 1st paragraph).

I'm not in much of a position to directly refute any assertions of fact you (or anyone else, for that matter) make based on your personal experiences. But using the banner of "personal experiences" is a very dangerous sword to wield; if you use it as a "first-defense" each and every time you aver a particular position, it will be (right or wrong) seen as a cop-out.

I can only speak for myself, but I endeavor to the extent possible to make sure my basic grammar and spelling are as correct as possible. To me, nothing weakens an Internet forum argument more than weakness in either or both areas. I recognize most people don't care about such things, but to me they're important. If you have a strong opinion about something, and want to express that opinion, I would encourage you to care enough to make sure what you post is spelled correctly and phrased coherently. As an example, you have a post in another thread about KFOR and the "Berry's," and it doesn't take that much effort to discover that the Berry's on KFOR are actually the Barry's. Yes, it's a nitpick, but if you're taking the time to post, why not take the time to spell things correctly?

I've already gone on too long, and for that I apologize, but the points here are just the perspectives of one among many posters who has been simultaneously interested, insulted, irritated, curious, embarassed, and disdainful of your opinions not nearly so much for the opinions themselves, but for the way you choose to express them. When you choose that path (and you have that right within the rules of the board), you make it hard for us to lend you the credibility you might otherwise deserve. Considering that "road not taken" might make the journey for all of us just a bit more enjoyable.

I hope that makes some degree of sense.

Regards,
-soonerdave

SoonerDave, actually this is one of the better posts I've read today. Very well put, and very punctual

ummmm... patrick, i think you mean 'well-punctuated.' by 'punctual' are you intending to say that the post was on-time? : )

-M

Yeah, it's been a long day....thanks for the heads up.

in any other context i wouldn't have corrected... but here i just couldn't resist.

it has been a long day, hasn't it? : )

-M

in any other context i wouldn't have corrected... but here i just couldn't resist.

it has been a long day, hasn't it? : )

-M

Actually, I appreciate you correcting me.

Is there a full moon out or something today?

SoonerDave, actually this is one of the better posts I've read today. Very well put ...
:iagree:

Thanks for the early morning chuckle...:congrats:
ummmm... patrick, i think you mean 'well-punctuated.' by 'punctual' are you intending to say that the post was on-time? : )

-M

Though Anderson has decided to go into full time lurk mode, and that I just found this thread, and further considering my penchant for beating dead horses, I must reply.

The trouble with Anderson's posting style is that there is no room for differentiation between fact, mistaken fact and opinion. If he says it, do not argue with him, he's right -- end of story. There will be no defense of his position, there will be no explanation, it is what it is.

That said, if your ideas are so firmly held that you are not capable of challenging yourself to justify them to other people, why mention them on a forum designed for that sort of interaction? I suppose the silence in the last few weeks is a clear enough answer to that inquiry.

My life is full of relatives who have made some pretty important impacts on the state of Oklahoma.. one is in elected office as we speak. I've been around them a lot, my dad's one of them, but I disagree with all of them on any number of things. I won't get into it because I can only verify who held what office when, who their friends were, etc... There are some pretty shocking family stories, which I have every reason to believe, but no way to prove, so I'll just leave it at that. I also grew up around politicians, judges, a former Gubenatorial Candidate, (an utter piece of trash), a former first assistant attorney general, some of which were and are very close family, others were acquaintances, all were somewhat influential.

I only bring this up to point out that Anderson, while you may think you are unique in that you have some sort of corner on this market, that's simply not the case. There are other kids of "connected" people around here. Think about it -- it's not really that uncommon.

Having this sort of upbringing, I've found, has not been incredibly special or helpful to me in forming my own beliefs. If I have questions? Sure, I can go to a former first assistant attorney general, a judge, etc., but the best learning is the kind you do on your own. You shouldn't try to live up to the memory of someone else. Be who you are, do what you believe. It's your life.

You nor I have yet amounted to a hill of beans in our lives (as of yet), but at least my haughty rhetoric is based upon my own thinking and studies -- and I'm always more than happy, if not delighted to defend it. Whenever you're ready to do the same Anderson, c'mon back. You would be an interesting guy if you were capable of having a rational discussion about some of the things you purport to believe.