I heard a rumor the other day that Hobby Lobby founder and owner David Green was building an obscenly expensive house on the Canadian river. I could not turn up any info on this, so I am inclined to not believe it.

However, it got me to thinking. In these days of the OKC Renaisannace, our major corporations and their CEOs have been playing (and paying) a large part in our success. They have been key in things such as bringing the NBA to our city (and hopefully bringing it back), Downtown in December, the boathouse, the bell tower on the OK river, and countless other programs, events, and projects throughout the city and state.

But what about Hobby Lobby? Alot of folks in OKC don't even realize that Hobby Lobby is HQ'd in their hometown. Nor do they realize that HL is projected to do $1.8 BILLION in sales this year. I did some research on HLs community involvement and found that they primarily give to conservative Christian interests. I have no beef with HL spending their giving dollars in these interests as I a Christian and like to do my chairitable giving thru my church. But I also believe that Christianity should be relevant to community in which it resides. A good Christian is a good citizen.

This brings me to the queston: Is Hobby Lobby a good Corporate Citizen?

If you are interested, here is the link to the corporate page: Hobby Lobby Creative Centers (http://www.hobbylobby.com/site3/company/company.cfm)

I would like to see them invest more in their city, but they are giving TONS to charity, so I can't complain too much.

He has already built the obscenly expensive house. He may be adding on.

I couldn't care less if they spent millions buying table dances for their CEO's at the Red Dog.

It's their business and their profits. I'd shop there regardless.

I'm advised the Green's do indeed have a rather large, extremely nice home. I frequent the area, but I've never ventured onto their private property as I am neither acquainted with them nor under any form of invitation.

If I operated a series of business ventures as successfully as the Green's, I'd likely have a similar spread to enjoy the fruits of my efforts.

Thinking back, I can't say as I've ever heard anything that suggests they, and their businesses, are anything except good citizens of the community. Like many folks of means with successful companies, not everything done will garner a name on the wall or up in lights or even a small headline over a small blurb.

Not meaning to knock those what do in the least, but not everyone craves seeing their name all aglow in letters 6 feet tall.

He's a CEO like any of the other CEO's. The CEOs of Chesapeake, Devon, Dorchester Capital, and Midfirst Bank, all have very large homes. I don't see where David Green should be any different. He's the CEO of a major American corporation.

Asking whether he should live in a big house, reminds me a lot of The Oklahoman questioning Larry Jones' salary many years ago, and bashing Feed the Children. I think at that time, Larry Jones made something like 150K a year. From a CEO's standpoint, 150K a year isn't much, but The Oklahoman asked the question how could the CEO of a charitable corporation be making that much money. Folks, he's a CEO and has to run the corporation like any other CEO. He has a huge responsiblity. Why should the CEO of Feed the Children make any less than any other CEO? As I already said though, Larry makes significantly less than most CEO's. Heck, how much you think McClendon makes at Chesapeake? I bet it's over 200K a year.

David Green invests hugely in Christian charities. So, I don't think we can really say he doesn't give to the community. He's probably one of the largest donors keeping the City Rescue Mission alive. I don't look down upon him for choosing to invest in religious charities over other community causes. If he weren't giving anything, then I might balk at him, but he gives his share. I will note, he does it quietly, unlike some of the other corporations around town. It's not like you see the City Rescue Mission being named after him or anything. I think he gives as his religion tells him to give......not boasting of his gifts. That's probably why you never hear much about his involvement in the community...he doesn't desire a lot of fanfare.

Maybe he's just not interested in having a bunch of things named after him...

David Green and his wife started Hobby Lobby in their garage in the 1970's
and it wasn't until the late 80s that they moved out of that first home......
into a 10,000sf spread in brownsville in Bethany. It was nice, but not palatial.

He has spent over 5 years building the home he moved into last year, it is around 20,000 sf and as I recall, it has only three bedrooms. It does have
a double olympic size pool with a retractable roof and 9 (YES 9!) giant walk in size fireplaces surrounding the pool, 3 on 3 sides......

The home is palatial, but compared to his worth, it would be much like
an average person purchasing a home for 1000 bucks....

David Green is a simple man who built an unreal company. His faith means
something to him, it's not just posturing. In my business dealings with HL,
I have found it to be one of the most unbelievably ethical organizations
I've ever been associated with. People don't have any degree of understanding
of what it cost this company to close down on Sundays........but they did it....

He has donated countless stores around the country to churches to start
out of including here locally. Could he do more in bricktown? Probably.....
but why should he subsidize what is rolling along by itself, when he
could invest so much in Churches that are just beginning.....

David's Hobby Lobby, as well as Mardel and his newer venture, Hemispheres
are very good presences and we can be proud it is headquartered here.

As noted before, I have no issues with HL or the Green's, nor with the decision that the stores do not operate on Sundays.

However, I'm not certain it follows that this greatly costs the company, or any other company that elects to close for faith based reasons.

When the customer base knows a desired product is not available on a given day, don't they just alter their shopping schedule. Perhaps there is some level of lost opportunity, but I have difficulty in seeing it as a significant level of lost income.

I don't know how much it hurts Hobby Lobby, but look at Chick Fil A. How many people eating lunch at the mall food court on a Sunday afternoon would have bought a chicken sandwich if they were open?

Shopping schedules are adjusted.........
Hobby Lobby Monday thru Saturday
Michaels on Sunday

Closing Sundays isn't going to break the company, but
it's a significant impact on the bottom line compared
to the year before....

More companies could/should do the same for
their employees.

Here (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=35.339433,-97.667921&spn=0.003641,0.008411&t=h&z=18&om=1) it is on Google Maps: the Sat image is probably a year or two old.

You can see it from the south side of the river, up on a bluff. Quite a spread, and it must command a fine view of the river valley below.

That's why I respect David Green so much. He donates millions each year to different charities, and about the only way you find out about it is by word of mouth. He doesn't want the recognition, and he always gives God the glory, so I would say that he is on the right track.

Yes, he mainly gives to Christian organizations, but there is nothing wrong with that. Look at all the major corporations that give tons of money to the secular organizations. He just chooses to give to Christian organizations, and that's why I believe that he has been blessed with so much. God blesses a cheerful giver.

Plus, his stores are all closed on Sundays, and as you can very well see, it hasn't hurt his business any. He is an example that many CEO's should follow.

I, too, laud Hobby Lobby and its business practices.

That it gives up Sunday revenue to allow its employees time for family and worship says volumes about the roots of the company. If the worst thing someone can say about Hobby Lobby is that it didn't become a corporate sponsor of the NBA, that's cool with me.

-soonerdave

I personally do not agree with the policy of retail stores being closed on Sundays. I agree a store can do as they choose, I just don't think it makes that much business sense.

I'd love to see an accurate tally of the number of employees that are in church Sunday morning.

Many will disagree, but I think their policy of being closed on Sundays is foolish and done for PR reasons. Michael's doesn't seem to be a ghost town on Sunday afternoons.

Of course, I remember when the Edmond HL was closed around 6pm on week nights (many, many years ago) - now that was nuts!

i'm with you, bailjumper... i'm pretty sure that hobby lobby is opened on sundays around the christmas season... so the whole closed sundays thing sounds like pr to me. not that i think that's some evil marketing strategy... just calling a spade a spade. -M

ok, I've been debating whether or not I should comment on this thread or just let it go since I am an employee of the Hob Lob Corp location.

I can assure you that we are not open on any Sundays, even during the Christmas season. And I would say that the majority of people that work here do attend church services on Sundays. David is not concerned with any business loss from being closed, most people know we are closed on Sundays so they buy the things they need on other days. Family time and God are two important things to him, more important than any loss of revenue.

He donates an enormous amount of money every year to numerous charities within Oklahoma and does so because he believes in them, not for name recognition or to make his company look good.

David is usually the first one in the door every morning and the last one to leave every day. He works very hard! But he is the first CEO I have worked with that speaks to every employee when he sees them, he gets out of his office and walks around his facility and is involved with the process, and he treats everyone with respect and makes you feel welcome. He also has a fantastic sense of humor.

Another thing to consider when comparing Hob Lob with other companies of this nature is that this is still a privately owned company and will remain that way. So whatever he chooses to do with his money is his business.

i for sure agree that it's green's business what he does with his company's money... and i'm glad he gives to causes in which he believes in. i'll have to say that the hobby lobby name isn't plastered over alot of charitable projects it's involved with around town... and i'm glad for that, too.

though i am pretty sure (but not 100%) that hobby lobby is open extended hours, including sundays, during the holiday season... and i'm not saying that's wrong; just saying that it is.

-M

If she works there, I think she would know.

if i've shopped there and am fairly certain i've seen ads touting holiday hours... don't you think i might know, too? still not saying that i'm for sure right, though. -M

Nope, no Sundays. The only stores that extend their holiday shopping hours are the ones in Texas also, but even they are closed on Sundays.

...well, i checked on it just to be sure. holiday ads from 2001 and 2003 do show "closed sundays." so, i'll kindly retract my "closing sundays is part of hobby lobby pr" statement. -M

lol. Thanks. :)

That's why I respect David Green so much. He donates millions each year to different charities, and about the only way you find out about it is by word of mouth. He doesn't want the recognition, and he always gives God the glory, so I would say that he is on the right track.

Yes, he mainly gives to Christian organizations, but there is nothing wrong with that. Look at all the major corporations that give tons of money to the secular organizations. He just chooses to give to Christian organizations, and that's why I believe that he has been blessed with so much. God blesses a cheerful giver.

Plus, his stores are all closed on Sundays, and as you can very well see, it hasn't hurt his business any. He is an example that many CEO's should follow.

I have to agree with Keith here. I actually used to work for the Green family and know them first hand. The Green family is totally sold out to God and have their priorities in line from a TRUE Christian standpoint. As others have noted, the Green's give wrecklessly (many would see as a not so smart financial move to one's portfolio), however they take the God approach, which I believe is the best approach. How many major corporations are in serious debt? Most. Hobby Lobby is a privately owned firm to my knowledge with no known debt. As Keith said, closing on Sundays hasn't hurt him or his company. Could he have made a few extra bucks buy selling out his morals, probably, but that's it, he didn't sell out his morals to make a quick buck. I wish more companies would close on Sundays. Whether a person believes in God or not, we all need a day of rest from our hectic modern lives. What good is money when you're dead anyways.

I know the Green's, his son Mart (founder of Mardel's) focuses heavily on donating millions each year to help translate the bible into other languages and to distribute free bibles globally. I've been to Mart's house several times and been by David's as well. Mart's house is definitely nice but in no means palacial. It's about 4,000-5,000 square feet in an older, nicer subdivision in Bethany/West OKC area. No different and less expensive than many Edmonites. I'd say his house is around $300K. They also donate to many other Chrisitian based charitable causes as others have said. I in no way question their charity and integrity. I have however pondered why they aren't more involved with "The Arts and Civic projects" as I think the thread was originally designed to hint at. I'm all for that. But I think it's noble and humble not to have to be honored with every donation ala Boone Pickens, etc.

Mart (founder of Mardel's) focuses heavily on donating millions each year to help translate the bible into other languages and to distribute free bibles globally

I'd like to teach the world to sing
In perfect harmony
I'd like to buy the world a Coke
And keep it company
That's the real thing.

I also think the Hobby Lobby/David Green is a great corporate citizen. They have done numerous things for charities here and across the state and country. Last year, he bought the Edmond Athletic Club, and donated it to Ministries of Jesus (essentially a free clinic of Henderson Hills that seeks to heal body, soul, and spirit). MOJ now runs EAC as Transformations Fitness Center debt-free and the proceeds go to fund the clinic portion of MOJ. I know we at Henderson Hills sure think highly of his generousity!

During my senior year in high school, I worked for David Green when he was a manager with TG&Y. Back then he was just Mr. Green to me. I never made the connection that he was the same David Green, until I recently read his bio and how he started his business. He married his wife when she was 17and he was 19....over 40 years ago. He and his wife started the business out of their garage making picture frames. He is also the son of Church of God minister. Here is a link to a pretty good bio on him.

The Modest BILLIONAIRE - Charisma Magazine (http://www.charismamag.com/display.php?id=10418&print=yes)

According to Cleveland county assessor records, his house has a "market value" of $3,187,620.

i'm with you, bailjumper... i'm pretty sure that hobby lobby is opened on sundays around the christmas season... so the whole closed sundays thing sounds like pr to me. not that i think that's some evil marketing strategy... just calling a spade a spade. -M

Actually, Hobby Lobby is closed on Sundays, even around the holidays.
He does have extended holiday hours, but that's during the week. I think they're open until 9PM during the holiday hours......but I think they still get out early on Wednesdays, for Wednesday evening church. I know for sure that Mardel closes early on Wednesday evenings.

But, yeah, Hobby Lobby is not open on weekends, not even around the holidays.

Green closes his stores on Sunday to allow his people to worship, if they so choose. Also, the Bible states that one is to take a sabath day once a week, and to keep it holy. Green is doing that by keeping his stores closed on Sundays.

I personally do not agree with the policy of retail stores being closed on Sundays. I agree a store can do as they choose, I just don't think it makes that much business sense.

I'd love to see an accurate tally of the number of employees that are in church Sunday morning.

Many will disagree, but I think their policy of being closed on Sundays is foolish and done for PR reasons. Michael's doesn't seem to be a ghost town on Sunday afternoons.

Of course, I remember when the Edmond HL was closed around 6pm on week nights (many, many years ago) - now that was nuts!


You don't agree with it, because you're not a man of faith. If you knew anything about the Bible, you'd know that the Bible commands Christians to take a Sabath day out once a week, and rest. David Green sticks to that by having his business taken off once a week and rest.

The reason for him being closed on Sundays is inkeeping with his faith.

Same thing with the owner of Chick Fil A, who is a devout Baptist and evangelical Christian.

Both feel that they are honoring their God by taking off on Sunday.

And, if David Green wants to close his stores at 6PM, that's his business.

I bet you also think the ritsy stores at Northpark closing at 6PM is ridiculous.

Hmmmm...since you're so against being off, why don't you work from 4AM until 10PM, 7 You'll most likely be crying for an antidepressant.

i've already retracted that statement, patrick. i was wrong.

as for theology, sunday is not the sabbath. -M

...well, i checked on it just to be sure. holiday ads from 2001 and 2003 do show "closed sundays." so, i'll kindly retract my "closing sundays is part of hobby lobby pr" statement. -M

LOL! We forgive you.

i've already retracted that statement, patrick. i was wrong.

as for theology, sunday is not the sabbath. -M

Really, any day can be the Sabbath. David just chooses Sunday since that's when the Christian church worships.

while i really don't want to turn this into another religious discussion (at least not in this thread), the weekly jewish day of rest is always on the seventh day of the week... a saturday. christian scripture breaks with jewish laws and traditions such as the sabbath. therefore, i'd argue that there's no such thing as a christian sabbath. -M

Sticking with the traditional calendar used today, the Jews are correct in practicing the Sabbath on Saturday.

In America and Europe, we've changed everything, making Monday the first day of the week, and Sunday the last. So I guess it depends on when your week starts! And it depends on how rigid you are in complying with the notion that the Sabbath is supposed to be on the 7th day.

Still, I think the overall point God is trying to make is to work 6 days, and take a day off for rest. The Bible states that God worked 6 days, and rested on the 7th. It really doesn't discuss what the actual day of rest should be. For all we know, God could've started work on a Tuesday, and taken Monday off. LOL!

> God could've started work on a Tuesday, and taken Monday off.

God was a barber?
8^)

> God could've started work on a Tuesday, and taken Monday off.

God was a barber?
8^)

Sounds good to me.

> God could've started work on a Tuesday, and taken Monday off.

God was a barber?
8^)

Actually, God created the world in one day... He thought about it for six days. So, he plans ahead with no need to start on Tuesday.

> I have however pondered why they aren't more involved with "The Arts
> and Civic projects" as I think the thread was originally designed to hint
> at

It's likely as simple as they recognize other folks will give, and give well, for such endeavors, while also recognizing other needs which they care deeply about might go wanting, but for their kindness, commitment and gifts.


I really think Keith nailed it back in #13

Community relations is a common element of public relations among more well-known functions - like media relations and publications. Corporations give money and sponsor events for both altruistic and not-so altruistic reasons. Consider the oil refinery in close proximity to a low-income neighborhood that sponsors a kids' coloring contests with significant monetary prizes or even a company responsible for polluting the air all while giving $50,000 a year to the tiny, poverty-stricken community in which it resides -- for a library. Are these companies being good corporate citizen or is this their way of managing relationships with their publics? In the age of Enron and WorldCom it feels risky claiming admiration for any company or CEO. Still, I think Hobby Lobby's lack of "community relations" deserves a refined evaluation. From what I hear of David Green, ruthless self promotion of himself or Hobby Lobby is just not in his PR arsenal. Also, one of the most memorable ads to ever appear in The Oklahoman was purchased by Hobby Lobby. Anybody got any idea what it looked like or what it said? Here's a clue: full page and almost entirely white space. I'll never forget it and there were no orange Hobby Lobby letters in the creative. There's my two cents. :tiphat:

Jen at Airports, not sure where you're going with your Community Relations speal aka "Social Responsibility" however I think I get your point. I agree with you two on Hobby Lobby's "white space ad". FYI this is a national ad they run, not just in the Oklahoman. I'm not sure if they do it in ALL the major papers in the U.S. but I can vouch that they do it in all the major and minor markets they have stores in. They purchase these ads at Christmas time and it doesn't really advertise anything for Hobby Lobby.

Jen at Airports, not sure where you're going with your Community Relations speal aka "Social Responsibility" however I think I get your point. I agree with you two on Hobby Lobby's "white space ad". FYI this is a national ad they run, not just in the Oklahoman. I'm not sure if they do it in ALL the major papers in the U.S. but I can vouch that they do it in all the major and minor markets they have stores in. They purchase these ads at Christmas time and it doesn't really advertise anything for Hobby Lobby.

Yeah, they're mainly full page ads with a religious theme of some sort on them.