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Thread: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

  1. #1
    venture's Avatar
    venture is offline David
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    Lightbulb Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    Welcome to the 2013 edition of this thread.

    Below is the recap of the changes we saw in 2012 for Will Rogers Airport.

    Destination Airline Jan 2012 Flights Details Dec 2012 Flights Details Change
    Chicago O'Hare American 4 2x CR7, 2x ER4 4 2x CR7, 2x ER4 0
    Dallas/Ft Worth American 7 7x MD80 7 7x MD80 0
    Los Angeles American 2 2x CR7 2 2x CR7 0
    Atlanta Delta 5 2x MD88, 1x CR9, 2x CR7 5 3x MD88, 1x CR9, 1x CR7 0
    Detroit Delta 2 2x CR7 2 1x CR9, 1x CR7 0
    Memphis Delta 3 3x CRJ 3 3x CRJ 0
    Minneapolis/St Paul Delta 2 2x CRJ 3 3x CRJ 1
    Salt Lake City Delta 2 2x CR7 3 3x CR7 1
    Denver Frontier 2 2x 319 2 1x 319, 1x E90 0
    Baltimore Southwest 1 1x 73G 1 1x 737 0
    Chicago Midway Southwest 0 1x 733 - June 3rd Start 1 1x 737 1
    Dallas Love Southwest 5 3x 73G, 2x 733 5 5x 737 0
    Denver Southwest 3 3x 737 3 3x 737 0
    Houston Hobby Southwest 4 4x 733 3 3x 737 -1
    Kansas City Southwest 2 1x 73G, 1x 733 2 2x 737 0
    Las Vegas Southwest 2 1x 73G, 1x 733 2 2x 737 0
    Phoenix Southwest 2 2x 73G 2 2x 737 0
    St. Louis Southwest 2 1x 73G, 1x 733 2 2x 737 0
    Chicago O'Hare United 5 4x CR7, 1x ER4 4 3x CR7, 1x ER4 -1
    Cleveland United 0 No service 0 Starting Feb 2013 0
    Denver United 4 1x 319, 3x ER4 4 1x 319, 1x CR7, 2x DH4 0
    Houston Inctl United 9 3x DH4, 6x ER4 10 1x 320, 1x CR7, 8x ER4 1
    Los Angeles United 1 1x CR7 1 1x CR7 0
    New York/Newark United 1 1x ER4 1 1x ER4 0
    San Francisco United 1 1x CR7 1 1x CR7 0
    Washington Dulles United 1 1x CR7 1 1x CR7 0

    Announced Upcoming Air Service Changes - KOKC

    • United Express starting service to Cleveland in February
    • Southwest increasing Chicago Midway to 2x daily flights.
    • Southwest offering seasonal nonstop service to Orlando from Feb 15 - April 13.
    • American increasing LAX service from 2x daily to 3x daily in April.


    Tulsa (KTUL) - Tulsa International

    • Atlanta: Delta (1x 738, 1x 319, 2x CR9, 1x CR7)
    • Chicago O'Hare: American (1x 738, 3x ER4), United (2x CR7, 2x ER4)
    • Dallas/Fort Worth: American (2x 757, 1x 738, 4x M80, 1x ER3)
    • Dallas Love: Southwest (5x 737)
    • Denver: Southwest (3x 737), United (1x 738, 1x CRJ, 2x ER4)
    • Detroit: Delta (2x CR7)
    • Houston Hobby: Southwest (3x 737)
    • Houston Intercontinental: United (8x ERJ)
    • Las Vegas: Southwest (1x 737)
    • Los Angeles: United (1x CR7)
    • Memphis: Delta (1x CRJ)
    • Miami: American (1x 738 - Saturday Only)
    • Minneapolis/St. Paul: Delta (1x CRJ)
    • New York/Newark: United (1x ERJ)
    • Phoenix: Southwest (2x 737)
    • Salt Lake City: Delta (1x CR7)
    • St. Louis: Southwest (2x 737)
    • Washington Dulles: United (1x CR7)


    Announced Upcoming Air Service Changes - KTUL

    • United will be ending LAX service in April.
    • Southwest will start nonstop service, 1x daily, to Tulsa.


    Lawton (KLAW) - Lawton/Ft. Sill Regional Airport

    • Dallas/Fort Worth: American (5x ER3)


    Other Oklahoma Airports that use to have recent commercial airline service:


  2. #2
    venture's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    Just to point out that United did announce they will end TUL-LAX service in April.

  3. #3
    catch22 is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    I think you meant to say TUL-MDW not "to Tulsa."

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    I think you meant to say TUL-MDW not "to Tulsa."
    Ugh yes. Oh well...beyond the edit point. :-/

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    What kind of loads does AA have on those 757s to DFW out of TUL? And why does TUL-ORD see mainline on AA? (Is it simply because of the maintenance base AA's has at TUL?) Also, how's the MIA flight doing on Saturdays from TUL? Also, was interesting to see that DL runs 738s and 319s to TUL and we see the MD88s here in OKC...wonder why?

  6. #6
    venture's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrator View Post
    What kind of loads does AA have on those 757s to DFW out of TUL? And why does TUL-ORD see mainline on AA? (Is it simply because of the maintenance base AA's has at TUL?) Also, how's the MIA flight doing on Saturdays from TUL? Also, was interesting to see that DL runs 738s and 319s to TUL and we see the MD88s here in OKC...wonder why?
    I would say a lot of it has to do with the mx base in TUL. However, I did want to answer your questions when it comes to the loads.

    First Delta before I get into everything American. To ATL they are averaging a 72% load factor. Delta mainline is running at 62%. For OKC, we are averaging 71% load factor on Delta mainline, so stronger there and also in the overall at 76%. I wouldn't get hung up at all on the aircraft type. For the first 6 months of 2012 OKC-ATL had a total of 84,324 seats available. Tulsa only had 68,817 seats available. Keep in mind that the capacity on the MD-88s is going to be right between the 319 and 738, so to me it isn't a big deal at all.

    AA between TUL and DFW average a load factor of 78% based on the first 6 months of 2012 (all that is currently available). If we look at the 757s only they were: Jan - 60%, Feb - 64%, Mar - 67%, Apr - 66%, May - 83%, and Jun - 83%. All in all pretty acceptable.

    For AA on TUL-ORD average load factor is 66%. Now the American Eagle portion of the service is doing quite well most of the time. Load factors range from around 70% during Jan/Feb in the slow season and up into the mid 80s by Spring. If we look at mainline only, it is horrible. Jan - 21%, Feb - 23%, Mar - 39%, Apr - 39%, May - 53%, and Jun - 53%.

    TUL-MIA on American appears to be seasonal service, based on the numbers the gov't has, and operates November through March. I'm adding 2011 as well to have a comparison. Looking at these numbers, any other airline would pull the plug on this service. However, I think they need to route a 738 up to TUL, so that is the only reason it is still around.

    Month Flights Pax Seats Load Factor
    Jan '11 9 428 1404 30.5%
    Feb '11 2 141 320 44.1%
    Nov '11 2 169 296 57.1%
    Dec '11 5 427 752 56.8%
    Jan '12 4 288 592 48.6%
    Feb '12 4 310 604 51.3%
    March '12 5 534 752 71.0%

  7. #7
    s00nr1 is offline Gold Member
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    Venture,
    What's the word on when we might hear about the DCA route on US?

  8. #8
    catch22 is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by s00nr1 View Post
    Venture,
    What's the word on when we might hear about the DCA route on US?
    DOT has a 90 day ruling period, IIRC. So we should hear about Southwest's new Houston-DCA route in February.
    s00nr1 likes this.

  9. #9
    s00nr1 is offline Gold Member
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    Anyone else really looking forward to this announcement? I sure am.

    American Airlines

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    Wow this should be interesting. Please keep updated on this.
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    BoulderSooner is offline Platinum Member
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    Wow this should be interesting. Please keep updated on this.
    new logo

    “While American Airlines completes the evaluation of whether a merger could build on its strengths, it is important that it remains steadfast in the work that has been done and continues to be done to modernize the airline. Today, it takes the next step in that journey by revealing its much-anticipated new logo and livery.”

    Airline Biz Blog | Dallas Morning News Business writers blog about airlines, travel and items of interest to the aviation community

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
    new logo

    “While American Airlines completes the evaluation of whether a merger could build on its strengths, it is important that it remains steadfast in the work that has been done and continues to be done to modernize the airline. Today, it takes the next step in that journey by revealing its much-anticipated new logo and livery.”

    Airline Biz Blog | Dallas Morning News Business writers blog about airlines, travel and items of interest to the aviation community
    Oh, man! I was sure they were going to announce a new hub here in OKC! lol.. jk :P It will be neat to see what they come up with. A lot of companies have been changing out their logos.

  13. #13
    s00nr1 is offline Gold Member
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    Ya I knew the new livery was being announced today.....just interested to hear if there is any other news (US merger?).

  14. #14
    s00nr1 is offline Gold Member
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    This is what I have seen rumored:


  15. #15
    BoulderSooner is offline Platinum Member
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    that is terrible .. i guess we will see in 7 min

  16. #16
    venture's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    It's terrible.


  17. #17
    s00nr1 is offline Gold Member
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    Aaaaaannd website launch fail.

  18. #18
    s00nr1 is offline Gold Member
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    Venture that is quite possibly the worst livery I've ever seen.....this coming from a long-time AA traveler.

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    Hemingstein is offline Formerly OnlyOne
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    My god, that is the worst livery I have ever seen. Just because of this, I hope they merge with US Airways and take on their livery. This is nauseating.

  20. #20
    BoulderSooner is offline Platinum Member
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    on a crisp white plane i don't think it is terrible ..

  21. #21
    s00nr1 is offline Gold Member
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    After watching the video I can conclude that the US merger is just a matter of when now and not if.

  22. #22
    Hemingstein is offline Formerly OnlyOne
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
    on a crisp white plane i don't think it is terrible ..
    The planes aren't crisp white though. They're silver.

    After rewatching the video, I don't think the new logo is all that bad, but that tail is just the absolute worst.

  23. #23
    s00nr1 is offline Gold Member
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    I was hoping they were just going to update the scissor eagle into a more modern look -- not completely abandon it. It absolutely blows my mind that they spent two years coming up with this very underwhelming new livery/logo. What was upper management thinking and how bad does their graphics team look??

  24. #24
    s00nr1 is offline Gold Member
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    Saw this on airliners.net and had a good laugh:


  25. #25
    Hemingstein is offline Formerly OnlyOne
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    Default Re: Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

    haha, no lover for Cubana??

    Well, to be honest, I guess I shouldn't have had much hope for AA's new livery based on the "design work" that went into their updated webpage. It's 2013 and they can't get a decent webpage? We got about the same quality with the new livery.
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