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  1. #26
    1972ford is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    During rush I make every effort to utilize backroads and alley to get in front of trouble spots on the highway usually getting on and off a few times between DT and Moore/norman

    Down town has some great alleys that allow you to move fairly freely away from and into DT west of 235 go west and enter the onramp at western or one of 40s other ramps to 44 go south and use 37 to go east west from there or drive up Lynwood to north Virginia go west on tenth then go straight to 44 wes

    As for those of you needing to arrive or exit on the east side of 235 DT I would cruise S35 to 59 get on 240 west and take 44west the rest of the journey south traffic on 44 seems to dilute significantly south of 240 then go south to37and go your east west there should make for a less stressful commute

  2. #27
    RadicalModerate is offline Gold Member
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    If motor vehicle operators--I didn't use the term "drivers" because most people don't drive but only steer--would reduce their speed, either voluntarily or by enforcement, from the posted limit of 65 or 70 mph, in congested areas during rush hour--to about 35 mph, then all of the accidents that cause traffic to stop moving altogether would also be reduced and the average speed through those areas, during those times, would be closer to 30 mph rather than 2 mph. Not texting or playing with one's GPS and learning what "Merge" and "Yield" mean could increase that to perhaps 32 mph. Even with our poorly designed Entry/Exit ramps.

    I used to think that OKC had The Worst Steerers. That was before I encountered Dallas and/or Minneapolis/St.Paul.
    Did I forget Kansas City? sorry. L.A.? . . . Fuggedaboudit.

  3. #28
    skwillz is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    Quote Originally Posted by heyerdahl View Post
    Are you guys really trying to find alternative explanations for why traffic is not moving at 70 mph during rush hour? It is rush hour... It is not that mysterious. The road reaches capacity and maybe approaches level of service E during this hour. That's pretty appropriate (even good) for rush hour.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_service
    I would disagree that OKC is LoS E. I think LoS F would be more appropriate since the average speed of my commute on I35 South is around 25-30 MPH and I am pretty much gas-brake shuffling the entire way.

    I think discussion is warranted because the OKC metro really is not bad in comparison to larger metro areas, so traffic theoretically shouldn't be bad, but it is.. and some of us think it is due to the curves in the highway.

    I know that no amount of whining is going to change anything, but we can always discuss alternative routes or shortcuts.

  4. #29
    RadicalModerate is offline Gold Member
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    Obviously, the solution is to straighten out the curves.
    Once all the texters/cellphoneys learn about the shortcuts, there will be traffic jams there 2.

    Of course, straightening out the curves will lead inevitably to another 20 years of I-35 being torn up.
    In San Francisco, they have the Golden Gate Bridge to Perpetually Repaint . . . here . . . well it's different. =)

    Like Pogo (Walt Kelly) once said: "We have met the enemy and he is us."

  5. #30
    Architect2010's Avatar
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    Quote Originally Posted by skwillz View Post
    I think discussion is warranted because the OKC metro really is not bad in comparison to larger metro areas, so traffic theoretically shouldn't be bad, but it is.. and some of us think it is due to the curves in the highway.
    During Rush Hour, yes. The rest of the day is completely fine and the traffic is not bad. I am ALWAYS driving up and down 35 and the only time I experience slowdowns are if I'm driving during rush hours, and I've learned to just avoid the highways during that time. I have literally never had a problem otherwise, not including vehicle accidents or construction. Luckily though, I live in the city and so I don't need the highway to commute. I can be downtown via Walker in 10 minutes.

    Lifestyle change or live with the traffic?

  6. #31
    RadicalModerate is offline Gold Member
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    So . . .
    In The Urban-Infill of EdenPardise, AltaBurbia, [OKC], will they require newcomers to have training wheels, in addition to seat-belts and helmets on their bicycles or Segways?

    Just kidding: Of course "they" will. =)

  7. #32
    Just the facts's Avatar
    Just the facts is offline Kerry Decker
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    All I can do is read these comments and laugh. So many of you are the cusp of understanding but just aren't quite there.

  8. #33
    venture's Avatar
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    All I can do is read these comments and laugh. So many of you are the cusp of understanding but just aren't quite there.
    Why post a snarky comment without posting something constructive? That is just flat out being an ass when you really don't need to. Is it really that hard to be somewhat respectful anymore?

  9. #34
    Just the facts's Avatar
    Just the facts is offline Kerry Decker
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    Quote Originally Posted by venture79 View Post
    Why post a snarky comment without posting something constructive? That is just flat out being an ass when you really don't need to. Is it really that hard to be somewhat respectful anymore?
    What do you want me say, I-35 is proof adding lanes doesn't work and the money would have been better spent on things that actually reduce traffic? I already said that like 100 times.

  10. #35
    Dubya61 is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    JTF, I agree with most if not all of your standard talking points, but Venture79 has a point too. I don't comment on just anything I disagree with or agree with. Only on those things I think I have value to add to, and once I've said my peace, I'm done (mostly). Your comment about being on the cusp of understanding but just not quite there yet makes me picture someone running a science experiment in primordial goo. Congratulations on apparently feeling superior to the rest of us not yet there (my interpretation of your post). But the fact is, you're not yet broke free, yet, either, are you? Still stuck in a suburban nightmare and certain that all your woes would just vanish if we all adopted this transition that you desire. I get it, but my situation is not yours and I would not be served by abandoning my lifestyle and making a MAJOR shift. I still think you're right in most of what you say. I think Venture79 was right, too.

  11. #36
    Just the facts's Avatar
    Just the facts is offline Kerry Decker
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    Dubya61 - a lot of conversations and themes span multiple threads. Some of the people in this thread are also in the Norman thread arguing for the expansion of roads in Norman to alleviate traffic congestion - so yes - when I see them complaining about traffic on a road that was just widened a few years ago it makes me laugh (mostly out of frustration mind you) and I scratch my head why they don't put 2 and 2 together to get 4. Instead, they will search for an excuse why the obvious solution, doesn't work in this case (regardless of whatever 'this case' happens to be at the time).

    However, your point is valid so anyhow, let’s discuss solutions. How do you fix congestion on I-35? I guess we have to start by identifying the problem. Traffic is the problem so what causes traffic?


  12. #37
    Dubya61 is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    Dubya61 - a lot of conversations and themes span multiple threads. Some of the people in this thread are also in the Norman thread arguing for the expansion of roads in Norman to alleviate traffic congestion - so yes - when I see them complaining about traffic on a road that was just widened a few years ago it makes me laugh (mostly out of frustration mind you) and I scratch my head why they don't put 2 and 2 together to get 4. Instead, they will search for an excuse why the obvious solution, doesn't work in this case (regardless of whatever 'this case' happens to be at the time).

    However, your point is valid so anyhow, let’s discuss solutions. How do you fix congestion on I-35? I guess we have to start by identifying the problem. Traffic is the problem so what causes traffic?

    Friend, as I've said at least twice, I agree with your points, but you're preaching to the choir (loudly and repetively), so I'll treat your question as an educational opportunity. Don't expect me to raise my hand, though, and respond and thusly reinforce this teacher role you've assumed. I think you and I (and the Mayor of Bogota and I) differ in how soon a car-less utopia can be achieved without inflicting more pain on some than you're relieving from the enlightened few.

  13. #38
    Just the facts's Avatar
    Just the facts is offline Kerry Decker
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    I hear you Dubya61. I'm not trying to be the teacher, I am just sharing what I learn as I learn it. I'm not advocated the car-less world Enrique Penalosa is, I am just making the point that spending more money on making room for more cars is not going to result in less traffic.

  14. #39
    Dubya61 is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    JTF: Not trying to get in the last word. It's just that the distance of time has made my last post look petulant and strident. I certainly know where you're coming from and appreciate the efforts. I enjoy OKCTalk and have become so much more aware of other possibilities and points of view for it.

  15. #40
    Questor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    I think that while it is possible that the idea about traffic lanes/highways may be a reason that drives traffic, in this particular case I don't think that is the only issue or perhaps not even the most significant issue. When I think of the true boom towns around this country, in all of those cases very large numbers of people showed up someplace to work or live, the private sector didn't have the houses required in the immediate core, and so huge numbers of people moved into surrounding areas and overwhelmed the infrastructure. Sometimes it just happens regardless. I bring this scenario up because everyone on this board is always talking about OKC being the next boom town, which would seem to potentially throw us into this scenario if that ever turns out to be true....

    In the case of what is driving the traffic on south I-35, I actually don't think it is the highway being expanded in that area, because really it hasn't been expanded in the area in question, so much as it has been the massive expansion of 19th Street and the surrounding access roads and all of the new businesses springing up in that area. It has driven a dynamic increase in the quality of life for residents in that area, and as a result I think a lot more people are considering living in Moore who never would have a few years ago. I think this is why Moore's housing numbers are up. I think all of that is in direct correlation to the building of the Warren Theater and the huge numbers it is drawing from all over the region, who are willing to travel to it no matter the distance or traffic. With so many eyeballs passing through the area, businesses are springing up faster than what anyone thought possible a few years ago.

    As someone who lives in the metro and sees this change happening every day, I just can't help but think that this is the obvious answer. The highway in that area, from 19th on up into the city core, is still the crappy three and four lanes it has always been.

  16. #41
    venture's Avatar
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    Keep in mind it use to be 2 lanes from Norman through most of OKC up until just a few years ago. The 19th street development has been huge. The biggest cause of slow down through Moore that I find are just poorly designed on ramps that provide limited room to speed up/merger.

  17. #42
    BoulderSooner is offline Platinum Member
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    What do you want me say, I-35 is proof adding lanes doesn't work and the money would have been better spent on things that actually reduce traffic? I already said that like 100 times.
    can you answer a ? for me ...

    I235 north to broadway ext .... and broadway ext south to I235 ...... would making it 3 lanes wide on each side all the way (currently it is 3 then 2 then back to 3)

    help the traffic in that area?

  18. #43
    Just the facts's Avatar
    Just the facts is offline Kerry Decker
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    Changing the number of lanes is not good because it creates a choke point. So making it all 3 lanes will improve congestion, but only temporarily. Multiple studies in the UK and California have shown that all the new capacity will be used up in 5 to 7 years with congestion returning to its previous condition within 10 years. We can see this ourselves on I-35 South, although OKC's slower growth rate resulted in a slower absorption rate of new capacity.

    As for I-235, if you look at the old photos Pete posted from 1969 and compare to today you would be hard pressed to say the area is better off now. I would be happier if they took I-235 out and put the street grid back in.


  19. #44
    BoulderSooner is offline Platinum Member
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    Changing the number of lanes is not good because it creates a choke point. So making it all 3 lanes will improve congestion, but only temporarily. Multiple studies in the UK and California have shown that all the new capacity will be used up in 5 to 7 years with congestion returning to its previous condition within 10 years. We can see this ourselves on I-35 South, although OKC's slower growth rate resulted in a slower absorption rate of new capacity.

    As for I-235, if you look at the old photos Pete posted from 1969 and compare to today you would be hard pressed to say the area is better off now. I would be happier if they took I-235 out and put the street grid back in.
    there are plenty of areas the don't conform to your "multiple studies" .... Broadway ext from 63rd to the turnpike .. was widened a long long time ago ..and still has no traffic issue ..

  20. #45
    ou48A is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    The natural growth of the population makes capacity upgrades to streets and highways a necessity.
    I guess population control would solve the problem?

  21. #46
    jedicurt is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    As for I-235, if you look at the old photos Pete posted from 1969 and compare to today you would be hard pressed to say the area is better off now. I would be happier if they took I-235 out and put the street grid back in.
    I wouldn't... means that you would either have to go hefner parkway, or 35 to get to edmond (and the traffic of 235 would mostly be shifted to those two roads making their traffic problems worse.... or it takes you an hour and a half to get to edmond from norman

  22. #47
    Just the facts's Avatar
    Just the facts is offline Kerry Decker
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    Quote Originally Posted by jedicurt View Post
    I wouldn't... means that you would either have to go hefner parkway, or 35 to get to edmond (and the traffic of 235 would mostly be shifted to those two roads making their traffic problems worse.... or it takes you an hour and a half to get to edmond from norman
    That is the whole point though - without the freeway Norman and Edmond would still be compact walkable cities, which would allow you to take the interurban and you wouldn't need a car at either end. It is also well documented that removing urban freeways does not result in increased traffic on other routes. People simply stop driving as much.

  23. #48
    BoulderSooner is offline Platinum Member
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    That is the whole point though - without the freeway Norman and Edmond would still be compact walkable cities, which would allow you to take the interurban and you wouldn't need a car at either end. It is also well documented that removing urban freeways does not result in increased traffic on other routes. People simply stop driving as much.
    that is not "documented" in any part of middle america .. where land is basically endless

  24. #49
    Just the facts's Avatar
    Just the facts is offline Kerry Decker
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
    that is not "documented" in any part of middle america .. where land is basically endless
    True, but let me say this. It has worked everywhere it has been tried.

  25. #50
    jedicurt is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    True, but let me say this. It has worked everywhere it has been tried.
    and of those places that it has been tried... did they have alternatives, such as public transportation routes? I'm actually curious now if there is a way by bus to get from Norman to edmond...

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