Page 58 of 115 FirstFirst ... 85354555657585960616263108 ... LastLast
Results 1,426 to 1,450 of 2867
Like Tree1202Likes

Thread: Friends for a Better Boulevard

  1. #1426
    catch22 is offline Participating Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,129

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    Could it be, perhaps, propaganda for another 6lane elevated high speed (highway) that ODOT clearly wants?
    The City and ODOT are grasping at straws, I wouldn't call it propaganda per se. They have their minds set on building it and are using whatever reasoning possible to get it done. That's why we are hearing outrageous reasoning, they literally are grasping at finding a good justification for why we need it.
    Plutonic Panda likes this.

  2. #1427
    catch22 is offline Participating Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,129

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    Here's the flier that was passed out at the Boulevard meeting on 03Dec.

    Friends for a Better Boulevard-flier.jpeg

  3. #1428
    Just the facts's Avatar
    Just the facts is offline Kerry Decker
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    14,141

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    Jacksonville is just starting the re-construction of our downtown elevated freeway. Guess what, no by-pass and it is being replace with another elevated freeway.

  4. #1429
    Spartan's Avatar
    Spartan is offline VIP Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    11,778
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    Cleveland is talking about removing the elevated freeway that separates downtown from the lakeside.
    Plutonic Panda likes this.
    Gone to the ballpark. Go Tribe!

  5. #1430
    RadicalModerate is offline Participating Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    10,196
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    This is like watching a train wreck - from inside the train.
    I might venture to surmise that some folks think that denizens of OKC proper (of which i am not one) still think that OKCUbanites will buy into anything. I hope they are sadly mistaken. Especially those of either side who never have to drive or appreciate the results of the planning or lack thereof. It seems to me there are two basic issues: Elevated/Non-Elevated and Cross-Over Traffic Concerns (management thereof). A "Boulevard" above Street Level is not a "Boulevard" it is a remake of a redo of a previously failed and corrected "plan" that seemed like a good idea at the time. I vote for elevating Western to a bridge over the Proposal and putting in some Roundabouts to Add Character to the Drive/Detour. I would also suggest investing in CellphoneUseMonitors (of the Virtual Kind) to make up for the lack of Red Lights/Failure to Pay Full Attention to Driving while looking for some curbside parking between the trees and the shops.

    All joking aside: Folks inside the core of OKCUrbanity here need to pay attention to the Call for Action, above, and fill in the friggin' form. I would, but I don't get to vote for The OKC Govt. BigWigs . . .
    CaptDave and Plutonic Panda like this.

  6. #1431
    RadicalModerate is offline Participating Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    10,196
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    This is like watching a train wreck - from inside the train.
    O

    Con su permiso . . . A re-write of the accidental double post, above:
    It has been said that "the developers always win" . . . this can be good or otherwise.
    It has also been said that "no good deed goes unpunished".
    And then there is that thing from "Debt of Honor" that says: "if it isn't written down it never happened" . . .

    Actual, caring, concerned citizens of OKC have an opportunity here not to repeat the mistakes of the past.
    It's been said that "The Developers" always win" . . .
    It's been said that "No Good Deed goes unpunished" . . .
    It has been suggested that now is a good time to "Fill In the Friggin' Form" (fer cryin' out loud).

    You know that On-Grade, with Shops and Parking and Proper Traffic Control is a Good Thing.
    Don't let THEM do something that will have to be re-done ad infinitum until whenever . . .

    Fill in The Form (fer cryin' out loud) . . .
    CaptDave likes this.

  7. #1432
    Just the facts's Avatar
    Just the facts is offline Kerry Decker
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    14,141

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    All joking aside: Folks inside the core of OKCUrbanity here need to pay attention to the Call for Action, above, and fill in the friggin' form. I would, but I don't get to vote for The OKC Govt. BigWigs . . .
    Done, but you don't have to live in OKC to fill out the form. It goes to the Oklahoma Department of Transportation, not to OKC. Besides, this is built with federal funds so if you live in the US it is your money.

  8. #1433
    CaptDave is offline Participating Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    4,145

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    To be sure the Federal Highway Administration is aware of the comments, please send a copy of your comment form to the following address:

    Oklahoma Division
    Federal Highway Administration
    5801 N Broadway Ext., Suite 300
    Oklahoma City, OK 73118

    The FHWA is the final authority over this project whether ODOT or OKC Staff wishes to believe it or not.

  9. #1434
    Just the facts's Avatar
    Just the facts is offline Kerry Decker
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    14,141

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    To add to that, you can email and fax them

    email: Oklahoma.FHWA@dot.gov
    fax: (405) 254-3302
    CaptDave likes this.

  10. #1435
    CaptDave is offline Participating Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    4,145

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    Thank you JTF. I forgot that part.

  11. #1436
    OKCTalker is offline Participating Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,700

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    With the discussion centered on boulevard details (elevation, access, speeds, width, etc.), can someone remind me why the boulevard is needed in the first place? It's eastern terminus is downtown, but what's to the west that justifies the boulevard at all?

    I don't see that it's a road leading anywhere. There isn't a dense residential neighborhood to the west, or a dense commercial district. Developers aren't lining up saying "if only there was a road connecting this area to the CBD, then we would spend all of this money and develop the area." I don't see the synergy that - if the west would be connected to the CBD - then the combination of the two would be more valuable than they are today.

    We recall 25-ish years ago when the Kilpatrick Turnpike first opened and very few motorists drove on it. But it was built through a corridor with a new regional mall, good demographics and lots of land, and connected western OKC, Yukon & Mustang to the Turner Turnpike & I-35. Commercial development followed, traffic counts increased, and it is being widened right now. I just don't see any of those things, either along the boulevard's path, or at the western terminus of the boulevard.

  12. #1437
    BoulderSooner is offline Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    4,358

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCTalker View Post
    With the discussion centered on boulevard details (elevation, access, speeds, width, etc.), can someone remind me why the boulevard is needed in the first place? It's eastern terminus is downtown, but what's to the west that justifies the boulevard at all?

    I don't see that it's a road leading anywhere. There isn't a dense residential neighborhood to the west, or a dense commercial district. Developers aren't lining up saying "if only there was a road connecting this area to the CBD, then we would spend all of this money and develop the area." I don't see the synergy that - if the west would be connected to the CBD - then the combination of the two would be more valuable than they are today.

    We recall 25-ish years ago when the Kilpatrick Turnpike first opened and very few motorists drove on it. But it was built through a corridor with a new regional mall, good demographics and lots of land, and connected western OKC, Yukon & Mustang to the Turner Turnpike & I-35. Commercial development followed, traffic counts increased, and it is being widened right now. I just don't see any of those things, either along the boulevard's path, or at the western terminus of the boulevard.
    the east end of the BLVD goes to the boat house distrist and I40

  13. #1438
    OKCTalker is offline Participating Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,700

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
    the east end of the BLVD goes to the boat house distrist and I40
    Thanks. That brings up more questions, but I'll just wait for an answer to my original one.

  14. #1439
    CaptDave is offline Participating Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    4,145

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    OKCTalker - your central question is the reason many people favor simply connecting the off ramps from I40 to our existing street grid. The I40 bypass justification is a fabricated requirement from a discussion that occurred 10 years ago between the city and ODOT. There is NO federal requirement to provide an emergency bypass for I40 through downtown.

    I think it makes a lot of sense to build the boulevard envisioned by Mayor Cornett along the SW 3rd Street axis. It will move people past the Chesapeake Arena, Central Park, Convention Center (but hopefully at a different address than currently planned) and will facilitate redevelopment of the Core to Shore development district. If we extend the boulevard westward to Exchange, we also reconnect the Farmer's Market district with downtown after it was isloated by the Crosstown 50 years ago. You can see the result of cutting off large sections of downtown merely by driving around the area south of where the Crosstown stood.

    Then to accomodate motorists and other traffic wishing to come into and depart from downtown to west I40, we should spend the funds allocated to construct a connection to the street grid on California in the vicinity of Western. There is primarily light industrial (and some heavy industrial on Reno) in that area now but it will naturally become desirable for redevelopment in the future. We need to have a vision other than "what is has always been" for this project simply because the design will either facilitate development or be just another bad decision our kids will shake their heads at and fix one day.

  15. #1440
    OKCTalker is offline Participating Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,700

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    CaptDave - Thanks for your response. The historical perspective helps, as does your articulation of I-40 off ramps & I-40 W/B on ramps connecting to the current grid, and moving traffic through C2S.

    What's still lost on me is the justification for so much emotion over this, one measure of which is this thread's 1,274 comments.

  16. #1441
    LandRunOkie is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    512

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    Personally I've had this issue circled from the beginning. As for other peoples' interest, it is more of a question why other issues weren't emotional and people weren't involved in the past. It isn't uncommon for citizens to get emotional in other parts of the country and world.

    Unfortunately this is a consumeristic, sports-obsessed city. The idea of a brotherhood was taboo socialist jargon until the Thunder reinvoked it. Hopefully the civic interest that has been awoken will last beyond the Thunder's success. It is unfortunate that the only brotherhood in this city is one that people have to buy a ticket to gain admission into, but hopefully it isn't impermanent.

  17. #1442
    Dubya61 is offline Participating Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    3,255

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCTalker View Post
    Thanks. That brings up more questions, but I'll just wait for an answer to my original one.
    Further, and I'm certainly open for correction here, the Feds decided to throw some money (for a boulevard) at OKC as an incentive to knuckle under and let them move the Crosstown Expressway. OKC caught sight of the offer and wanted a boulevard ever since with one OKC official making it his goal to have it be the grand picture-worthy 1,000 words that are OKC. With unwavering dedication and eyes on the prize of a (1) boulevard to replace the elevated expressway, we marched on happily ... that is until Bob announced that the emperor has not a stitch of clothing on.

  18. #1443
    Bellaboo's Avatar
    Bellaboo is offline Gold Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    4,102

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCTalker View Post
    CaptDave - Thanks for your response. The historical perspective helps, as does your articulation of I-40 off ramps & I-40 W/B on ramps connecting to the current grid, and moving traffic through C2S.

    What's still lost on me is the justification for so much emotion over this, one measure of which is this thread's 1,274 comments.
    Actually 1,476 comments, fwiw......

  19. #1444
    CaptDave is offline Participating Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    4,145

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCTalker View Post
    CaptDave - Thanks for your response. The historical perspective helps, as does your articulation of I-40 off ramps & I-40 W/B on ramps connecting to the current grid, and moving traffic through C2S.

    What's still lost on me is the justification for so much emotion over this, one measure of which is this thread's 1,274 comments.
    I think it is an indication the people of OKC care deeply about our city and want the upward trajectory we have been on to continue. Our last few mayors and city council representatives have done a very good job providing a vision for the future of OKC and the city staff has generally done a good job executing that vision. This boulevard is one instance where I think they are making a mistake with long lasting implications. If it is built in such a manner that favors moving vehicles at the expense of all other considerations including the facilitation of growth and development, we will regret that decision for decades.

    The current plan including the Option 'A' they are recommending now is one that closes major streets and creates more problems than it solves. Many people, including some deservedly influential ones, still seem to regard downtown as just a huge office park that people drive to rather than a "real" city with residences and retail in addition to the businesses and entertainment we now have. So several people came together and asked if it were possible to attempt to influence this process and hopefully gain a better outcome for the city. That is the genesis of FBB and the reason for nearly 1500 posts on this forum.

  20. #1445
    Pete's Avatar
    Pete is offline Owner / Administrator
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    24,486

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    I know people in and around OKC really care about their city and that seems to be ever increasing.

    There are lots of reasons for this but it can't be overlooked that a ton of improvements have been paid for by the people; all the MAPS stuff, etc.

    One interesting consequence is a real sense of investment, in literal terms.
    Urban Pioneer likes this.

  21. #1446
    Urban Pioneer is offline Platinum Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,825

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    I am still not sure exactly what key words and language are preferred in writing to the Feds. Obviously, there is the form. I will definitely be writing in my own comments for desiring streetcar, transit, and transit hub integration on the central and east end of the boulevard.

    And quite frankly, I'm quite pissed off that transit integration, IE Bus HOV lane, stops, stairwell down the earthen embankment to Western, aren't even being discussed by engineers. I'm not surprised. Just continuing to be more and more pissed off with regarding to continued "dinosauric" traffic engineering philosophies that dominate Oklahoma City planning theology.

    Express buses are clearly identified in the Fixed guideway Study as the practical way to serve nearly all of Western downtown and this "through movement" or "bypass" could be used for facilitating a meaningful express corridor to the West side of the city. I'm not advocating, but if were forced to have "Option 1" it needs to be meaningfully integrated into long term planning other that for the future induced demand the engineers use to justify it.

    IF WE WANT TO BE A WORLD CLASS CITY, WE HAVE TO ACT LIKE A WORLD CLASS CITY
    Plutonic Panda and CaptDave like this.

  22. #1447
    Plutonic Panda's Avatar
    Plutonic Panda is offline Participating Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    12,911

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    So we have until December 9th to submit our letters?

  23. #1448
    Just the facts's Avatar
    Just the facts is offline Kerry Decker
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    14,141

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Pioneer View Post
    I am still not sure exactly what key words and language are preferred in writing to the Feds. Obviously, there is the form. I will definitely be writing in my own comments for desiring streetcar, transit, and transit hub integration on the central and east end of the boulevard.
    I tried to keep mine short and to the point without criticizing ODOT much. We aren't trying to solve world hunger and the Feds just need to know we don't like what ODOT proposed, why, and what alternative we like better. I also worked in Friends For a Better Boulevard and Two Boulevards on the Grid (since that is my prefered option). I wrote mine pretty quickly so it isn't eloquent, but here is what I wrote.

    -----------------------------------

    ODOT - After closely following the activities surrounding the new boulevard I would like to voice my support for the "Two Boulevards on The Grid" proposal that came out of discussions on OKCTalk and Friends for a Better Boulevard. Returning this area to its original grid with boulevards along California and SW3rd is the best option for moving traffic and redeveloping the area. The proposal by ODOT and Stantec should not be built.

    Prior to the construction of I-40 this part of downtown was highly developed but suffered greatly after the elevated I-40 was put in. For the 60 years I-40 operated along this route no significant development took place, in fact, the elevated I-40 discouraged development because it created a physical and psychological barrier. Creating another partially elevated high speed road to replace it will have the same results.

    I understand that downtown currently doesn't have sufficient entrance and exit ramps on the newly built I-40 and that two new interchanges will be built regardless of what happens to the boulevard, but there is no reason those two interchanges have to be connected by the same road. I would prefer 2 boulevards on the grid; one along California Ave on the west and the other along SW3rd on the east and south.

    The grid is the most efficient distributor of traffic known to man. California Ave has 7 intersections between Western and Walker, and if the pedestrian path is removed during Stage Center redevelopment there would be 8. Likewise, SW3rd would connect I-40 on the east to Exchange Ave on the west, which would make a new gateway entrance from Stockyard City as well as providing access to the convention center area.

    Transportation systems should not sacrifice livable communities and neighborhoods for saving a few minutes on the road. People living in suburban OKC have no more right to leave downtown at 55 mph than the people who own property or choose to live downtown have a right to live in a safe walkable well developed neighborhood.

  24. #1449
    Lafferty Daniel is offline Participating Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    169

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    Quote Originally Posted by heyerdahl View Post
    The more and more I look at this, the more pissed I get knowing that this is the perfect solution and it most likely won't be used.
    The Bard and TAlan CB like this.

  25. #1450
    CaptDave is offline Participating Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    4,145

    Default Re: Friends for a Better Boulevard

    For catcherinthewry and others:

    If the city really wants to have their interstate bypass route through the middle of downtown rather than diverting traffic around any potential catastrophe on the new crosstown to I35/I44/I240, the "Two Boulevards on the Grid" provides a better way of doing so than closing streets and buildings walls/bridges. Take a look at the map and it should be fairly clear. The TBOTG design is superior to anything put forth by ODOT and the city - and Stantec since they were restricted from performing baseline analysis on this design.

    Occam's Razor definitely applies here......at least it should.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. First Dates, Old Friends
    By RealJimbo in forum Nostalgia & Memories
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 03-25-2010, 11:05 PM
  2. Compassionate Friends
    By Karried in forum Current Events & Open Topic
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-14-2007, 09:14 AM
  3. Friends are Friends forever
    By Keith in forum Current Events & Open Topic
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-11-2007, 09:30 PM
  4. Your Married Friends
    By Leon in forum Current Events & Open Topic
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-18-2006, 10:07 PM
  5. Just Friends
    By Karried in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-28-2005, 01:43 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1