Originally Posted by Just the facts

That would be great if these same transportation planners and engineers made 25 mph streets that made it uncomfortable for people to drive faster than 25 mph, but they don't. They make 25 mph street capable of handling speeds in excess of 45 mph - all in the name of driver safety - which is why speeding is such an issue in the country.

speeding is an issue because of the rushed nature of our culture .... not the design of the streets

Originally Posted by BoulderSooner

speeding is an issue because of the rushed nature of our culture .... not the design of the streets

You crack me up.

There are several reasons you don't see more bicyclists on Reno (and certainly Gaylord).

1. High diesel traffic. Meaning large aggressive trucks and diesel fumes.
2. Lack of bike racks virtually anywhere downtown other than Spokies and the library. Maybe Native Roots.
3. Lack of enforcement of bike lanes/sharrows. Every time I go downtown, someone edges past me, getting within 2 feet. It gets kind of tiring resorting the the crime hotline.
4. I'm pretty sure the Reno speed limit is over 20 mph. Which makes it dangerous to bike there according this graphic I grabbed from this video.

Originally Posted by sidburgess

You crack me up.

valid i should not speak in absolutes

the rushed nature of our culture causes speeding more than that design of the streets causes speeding

Originally Posted by BoulderSooner

valid i should not speak in absolutes

the rushed nature of our culture causes speeding more than that design of the streets causes speeding

Width of streets and their correlation to speeds is a universal principle. And by universal, I mean studied and accepted in every industrialized country. How's that for an absolute?

Here are some screen captures from the update provided to the Economic Development Trust this week.

Wenger swore all this would be complete within the next two weeks.

That would signal the end of packages 1-5 with 6 to start later this year and 7 (and last) sometime after that.

Here is the latest schedule and map.

The McGee Center is an underground area of the Myriad Gardens, the Pedestrian Plaza is the area between Devon, Corporate and Oklahoma Towers.

Originally Posted by Pete

In an update this week given to the Economic Development Trust, Wenger didn't even mention this area (glossed over it, saying all other packages were complete) and when questioned about the lights he said they were on order but was not expecting them for "several more weeks".

That usually means months and is yet another example of terrible project management that has plagued every phase of this project.

How can a project be complete if it isn't done? Only in government. Maybe different lights and they really are on order/back-order, but wasn't there a case of lights along Film Row being in a warehouse someplace and just taking months to get them installed?? if it is a case of traffic signals, they can remove the "extra" ones that exist over non-existent lanes (when you have a single lane and have 3 sets of lights).

hopefully they find future money for the rest of Broadway from 4th down to cox .. Main st over to EKG and Kerr over to EKG and then maybe the rest of EKG up to 4th

Originally Posted by LandRunOkie

this video.

Yea this video.

This is precisely the kind of street design we need all over the metro. I see signs around the metro that say to give cyclists 3 feet. Yeah, just put up some signs, make a law and call it done. Nope. You've got to redesign the streetscape to make it more friendly to not only cysclists but pedestrians as well. Complete streets is the right idea.

Sure bicycles have the same right to the road as cars do. But when was that law written. Back when cars topped out at 25 mph and weighed 800 pounds. Now cars weigh more, are bigger and go a lot faster. Just because it's the law doesn't mean you're going to be safe riding your bike on a city street. Bicycle vs. GMC Yukon going 50 mph. You know who wins that one. Every time. I like that they had a barrier of cars between the cyclists and the auto traffic. That would feel so much safer. Cars and bicycles should be separated.

We want Oklahomans to be healthier but to be realistic, most people aren't going to go to the gym after or before work. But if you give them ways to incorporate healthy living into everyday life with not much more effort, the difference will be great. Make it so people can walk to the grocer. Or they can bike to the shoe store etc. If people are going there anyway and you give them an alternative to get there other than just car, then that makes it easier. But it's work for most people to bicycle on purpose just for health or walk just for health. Make it a fun family activity like in that video. Lots of people in that video with their kids biking to the park etc. That way it becomes incorporated into everyday life instead of something extra they have to do.

I wish me liking this video would somehow cause OKC metro leaders to make our streetscapes like what's in this video.

Originally Posted by Just the facts

That would be great if these same transportation planners and engineers made 25 mph streets that made it uncomfortable for people to drive faster than 25 mph, but they don't. They make 25 mph street capable of handling speeds in excess of 45 mph - all in the name of driver safety - which is why speeding is such an issue in the country.

And money. . .

A couple of new photos from P180's facebook page:

Concrete being poured at corner of Walker and Kerr.




Someone making use of the new mod style bike racks.



That bicycle looks like the one Julie Andrews rode in The Sound of Music.

Just FYI the graphic I posted in post #1754 is based on data from the UK Department of Transport, available here: Effects of Speed on Pedestrian Fatality Rates . With this info in mind, the city should begin lowering speed limits in urban settings.

Originally Posted by LandRunOkie

Just FYI the graphic I posted in post #1754 is based on data from the UK Department of Transport, available here: Effects of Speed on Pedestrian Fatality Rates . With this info in mind, the city should begin lowering speed limits in urban settings.

Has OKC been having problems with pedestrian fatalities in urban settings?

Originally Posted by ljbab728

Has OKC been having problems with pedestrian fatalities in urban settings?

I understand what LRO is getting at (I think), but you're right, we don't have many, if any, pedestrian fatalities in urban settings here.

Safe, pedestrian environments will bring out a lot more pedestrians.

Originally Posted by sidburgess

Safe, pedestrian environments will bring out a lot more pedestrians.

We should have a huge number of pedestrians then with our low amounts of endangered pedestrians. LOL

I have never worried about the danger in walking when considering to go out for a stroll in OKC.

Originally Posted by ljbab728

I have never worried about the danger in walking when considering to go out for a stroll in OKC.

I'd love to know where you are walking! Even short jaunts from my home on 39th street to VZDs on Western are fraught with peril. Then again I have a stroller with me. Maybe you are some sort of Parkour master who is unfazed by making quick escapes?

Originally Posted by DoctorTaco

I'd love to know where you are walking! Even short jaunts from my home on 39th street to VZDs on Western are fraught with peril. Then again I have a stroller with me. Maybe you are some sort of Parkour master who is unfazed by making quick escapes?

I live in the Miller neighborhood walking between May and Pen with no problems.

Originally Posted by DoctorTaco

I'd love to know where you are walking! Even short jaunts from my home on 39th street to VZDs on Western are fraught with peril. Then again I have a stroller with me. Maybe you are some sort of Parkour master who is unfazed by making quick escapes?

Fraught with peril? That sounds like something out of a Dickens novel. Is Uriah Heep lurking in the shadows on your walks? Nothing like a little melodrama.

This is a pretty difficult one I think for everyone to agree on.

When my wife get's off way up at 122 & Penn with three kids and no sidewalks, it's a little un-nerving to walk. Crossing intersections "out there" are also difficult as they are rarely marked or signaled well for pedestrian activity, if at all.

Crossing EKG a couple times a day with three kids and most times the cross is just fine...others, cars seem to want to push you right out of the crosswalk. Nothing like watching 2k lbs of steel try to bully your 3 year old daughter. Melodramatic but true.

Walking along Reno in Bricktown and you will notice several bottlenecks where there just isn't much room for pedestrians to walk (namely at the canal crossing) and there is no buffer between you and the travel lane. It's a little more stressful right through there because cars just go waaaay too fast on Reno.

Within the subject of Walkability I talk a lot about accessibility vs walkability. There is a real distinction but the truth it, it's not easy to define for everyone. Like bike lanes, there are people that really need grade separation to get the to feel safe riding to work. Others are fine sharing the road with vehicles.

But to be fair, drivers are no different. Some think 70mph is too slow, others too fast.

When it comes to pedestrian infrastructure, what we do know is that when there is a few things in place, people do really start to appear and use the space -- and they do it with very, very low injury/accident counts.

1) Sidewalks wider than 8'
2) Wide crosswalks that create a more "humane" distance between pedestrians and running vehicles
3) Urban trees
4) Density along the route
5) Some sense of care and quality of life
6) A strong sense of security


These are just a few but they are important. So safety, like a speed limit, is a little relative and just part of a larger picture that makes for a compelling journey.

Originally Posted by sidburgess

Crossing EKG a couple times a day with three kids and most times the cross is just fine...others, cars seem to want to push you right out of the crosswalk. Nothing like watching 2k lbs of steel try to bully your 3 year old daughter. Melodramatic but true.

I think part of our problem on pushing people out of the crosswalk is for several of the recent decades we have had little to no people using crosswalks at the vast majority of intersections, it became an unconscious habit to not expect anyone would ever be there (especially for anyone who learned to drive in the suburbs), outside of downtown I am not sure if I have seen more than a handful of people use a crosswalk per year. I don't think they even mentioned stop-lines in my drivers ed course, it was not till I heard about someone getting a ticket at one that I even started paying attention to them.

Originally Posted by DoctorTaco

I'd love to know where you are walking! Even short jaunts from my home on 39th street to VZDs on Western are fraught with peril. Then again I have a stroller with me. Maybe you are some sort of Parkour master who is unfazed by making quick escapes?

Well, I'm not quite sure what you mean by peril. LOL
I don't have a stroller with me, so I can't relate to that aspect. When I walk, it can be in various areas of downtown, Bricktown - Deep Deuce, Midtown, Plaza area. SW OKC, etc. I don't walk along the freeways. As long as I obey the walk or don't walk signs, I always feel safe.

New pics on the P180 facebook page:

Sidewalk complete on east side of Museum of Art. Paver installation to follow.



Pavers installed at north west corner of Walker and Couch.