Chesapeake empire marches on

[mmonroe]

there are lots of places that are not near a highway or isn't downtown that has more than 5 floors.

[mugofbeer]

It's a matter of whether or not it would fit with the integrity of the surrounding residential neighborhoods. Remember you have Nichols Hills to the NW and the other neighborhood to the west between Western and Classen.

[circuitboard]

It's a matter of whether or not it would fit with the integrity of the surrounding residential neighborhoods. Remember you have Nichols Hills to the NW and the other neighborhood to the west between Western and Classen.

Take a look at highland park in Dallas, many high rises in surrounding areas.

[mugofbeer]

Take a look at highland park in Dallas, many high rises in surrounding areas.

I understand and I don't necessarily disagree with the idea of mid-rise to high rise - especially if Chesapeake is buying all of the land between Western and Broadway Ext. between 63rd and I-44, there would be plenty of buffer.

It sounded like there was a sense of not understanding what stlokc was trying to say and why. As long as there is some buffer between the areas its OK with me, but some people don't like that mix even though it's very successful in other places - and even some here up the NW Hiway.

[metro]

From what I have heard, Chesapeake and Aubrey's interests are recruiting several businesses at Classen & Grand: California Pizza Kitchen, Ruth Chris's Steakhouse, and of course, Whole Foods. These are separate transactions and negotiations, but would be located at Chesapeake's property around Classen & Grand.

I was thinking at lunch, California Pizza Kitchen no longer makes sense since locally owned Upper Crust Pizza is going in (similar in concept), Whole Foods is a highly realistic rumor, and Ruth Chris's, well I hope not since Red Prime is local and same caliber, and Cafe 501 will probably have steaks like their sister restaurant in Edmond. If your insights were true, perhaps CHK is trying to create these concepts locally or all locally with the exception of Whole Foods?

[circuitboard]

I understand and I don't necessarily disagree with the idea of mid-rise to high rise - especially if Chesapeake is buying all of the land between Western and Broadway Ext. between 63rd and I-44, there would be plenty of buffer.

It sounded like there was a sense of not understanding what stlokc was trying to say and why. As long as there is some buffer between the areas its OK with me, but some people don't like that mix even though it's very successful in other places - and even some here up the NW Hiway.

I've always liked random high rises in various places in the city, makes it feel more urban. But like you said some people don't care for that.

[stlokc]

This might be unpopular, but I guess I don't share the opinion that height simply for the sake of height is always the most optimal goal or even the most "urban." first, I don't think 63rd in NH necessarily needs to be "urban" in character. Seems to me that even if that were the goal, 2 or 3 five-story buildings with corresponding density feels more "urban" than one 10 or 15 story building, when you talk about a setting like 63rd. And I don't think there are many examples of taller buildings in OKC outside the inner city or a highway setting. (I am counting NW Hwy as a highway, by the way). It's not necessary here and would be out of character for the neighborhood.

I know it's a silly comparison, but look at Washington DC. They have height limits all over town and you can't tell me that's not an urban city. Let me ask you this, since they aren't downtown, would you rather see Chesapeake at that corner with one 50-story building and acres and acres of parking? I think what they have done on that corner instead adds much more density.

Just my humble opinion.

One other question: let's say there is the demand for 50 stories worth of housing along Core To Shore. Would you rather see ten 5-stories lining the park or one 50-story tower? I know what I think.

[securityinfo]

The land where building 14 will be going, is already owned by CHK.

Hmm... still shows to be owned by the same folks that have had it for years... but there are indications that perhaps a deal has been cut, but not executed.. should be interesting to see over the next few weeks...

[Jethrol]

It was a conscious decision to make the buildings smaller. They could easily have built one large building.....look at the family history ala Kerr-McGee building downtown. They may have had some work to do rezoning but I don't think that would have ever been a significant barrier for Aubrey and crew.

The smaller buildings represent his desire to keep the organization much flatter than other big companies....in other words, fewer levels of management.

[mugofbeer]

Perhaps someone can add but my recollection is that Microsoft is set up the same way up in Redmond, WA in something like 50 or so buildings in a campus. Its McClendon's smaller version of that.

[jbkrems]

Metro, I do not think Upper Crust and CPK are similar concepts. Upper Crust is I think more Italian, whereas CPK is West Coast/Global. I wonder if Upper Crust will offer a wonderful BBQ chicken pizza, which I cannot find in the area (Hideaway is too greasy). As regards to Ruth Chris's Steakhouse, to me its a separate category compared to say, RedPrime. Clearly, RedPrime is better and superior to any Ruth Chris's restaurant, in any city. However, we do not have a Fleming's (which is in Tulsa at Utica Square), and the only other one is Mahogany (a chain). Nor do we have Morton's or Capital Grille. To me, Ruth Chris is just under RedPrime with quality, but would surpass everything else already here in town. Just my thoughts.

[Pete]

Also, they may be wanting to put those restaurant concepts apart from Classen Curve and in a new retail development around Whole Foods.

If WF is going into the location we all expect, then I'm sure CHK is planning to redevelop that entire area south of 63rd street.

That, combined with a redeveloped NH Plaza means lots and lots of space for more restaurants and stores, and therefore it would be impossible to not have some overlap.

[onthestrip]

Metro, I do not think Upper Crust and CPK are similar concepts. Upper Crust is I think more Italian, whereas CPK is West Coast/Global. I wonder if Upper Crust will offer a wonderful BBQ chicken pizza, which I cannot find in the area (Hideaway is too greasy). As regards to Ruth Chris's Steakhouse, to me its a separate category compared to say, RedPrime. Clearly, RedPrime is better and superior to any Ruth Chris's restaurant, in any city. However, we do not have a Fleming's (which is in Tulsa at Utica Square), and the only other one is Mahogany (a chain). Nor do we have Morton's or Capital Grille. To me, Ruth Chris is just under RedPrime with quality, but would surpass everything else already here in town. Just my thoughts.

Do we even know what type of pizza Upper Crust will have? Either way, I would think there would be a non-compete clause.

Regarding Ruth Chris and Flemings, it wouldnt be a bad thing if they located here but with The Ranch, RedPrime and Boulevard Steakhouse, I doubt I would ever go. jbkrems, we do have other great steak restaurants than just RedPrime and Mahogony.

And about Chesapeake's architecture, I think it would look odd if they started building highrises. However, the land that is closer to I44 and Broadway Ext would be more conducive for high rise, whether it be CHPK or another corperation.

[jbrown84]

I saw the finished garage for the first time the other day when driving west on 63rd from the Extension. The multi-colored lights sure stand out. Is the construction between it and 63rd for more offices?

[stlokc]

I would not be nearly as opposed to mid and higher rise construction between the railroad and Broadway as I would be west of Western. Of course it would make me worry about whether it was cannibalizing downtown but that is a topic for another thread.

[Jethrol]

I saw the finished garage for the first time the other day when driving west on 63rd from the Extension. The multi-colored lights sure stand out. Is the construction between it and 63rd for more offices?

Well the garage isn't finished....people are parking in it but they're still working on it.

Yes, the building between the parking garage and 63rd is another building. Building 13 to be exact but it will not look like the others. Here's a pic of what they will look like when completed.

This first pic is on the NW corner of 63rd and Classen looking towards the SE.
On the left is building 13....on the right is the new parking garage once it's finished.


In this pic, B13 is on the right and the new garage is on the left.
This is a pic looking SW from the N side of 63. You're looking at the NE corner of B13 and the garage.

[metro]

It was a conscious decision to make the buildings smaller. They could easily have built one large building.....look at the family history ala Kerr-McGee building downtown. They may have had some work to do rezoning but I don't think that would have ever been a significant barrier for Aubrey and crew.

The smaller buildings represent his desire to keep the organization much flatter than other big companies....in other words, fewer levels of management.

I seriously doubt family history has anything to do with it. Geez, he was a great nephew of the Kerr family, big deal. He didn't "inherit" an oil empire or anything, he and Tom Ward started it from the ground up with a minimal investment back in the 80's. They are both suburban type guys. Type of building has nothing to do with flatter management structure. They have plenty of management structure, they're just spread out in like 20 different buildings instead of 1. If anything, more buildings complicates processes, not streamlines them.

Metro, I do not think Upper Crust and CPK are similar concepts. Upper Crust is I think more Italian, whereas CPK is West Coast/Global. I wonder if Upper Crust will offer a wonderful BBQ chicken pizza, which I cannot find in the area (Hideaway is too greasy). As regards to Ruth Chris's Steakhouse, to me its a separate category compared to say, RedPrime. Clearly, RedPrime is better and superior to any Ruth Chris's restaurant, in any city. However, we do not have a Fleming's (which is in Tulsa at Utica Square), and the only other one is Mahogany (a chain). Nor do we have Morton's or Capital Grille. To me, Ruth Chris is just under RedPrime with quality, but would surpass everything else already here in town. Just my thoughts.

Well considering we don't know much about Upper Crust's concept/pizza other than it is in a stone fired oven, just like California Pizza Kitchen or CPK as you refer to it. As someone said, I doubt they are going to attract CPK and Upper Crust within a block or so from each other, doesn't make sense. I think the route they've been going is better than having a Ruth Chris's or Morton's. The area is more unique with local restaurants that provide the same quality or better. I think it's unrealistic that we're going to get a locally owned version of a Whole Foods (Akin's isn't even close), so I think most people are OK with getting that chain.

Also, they may be wanting to put those restaurant concepts apart from Classen Curve and in a new retail development around Whole Foods.

If WF is going into the location we all expect, then I'm sure CHK is planning to redevelop that entire area south of 63rd street.

That, combined with a redeveloped NH Plaza means lots and lots of space for more restaurants and stores, and therefore it would be impossible to not have some overlap.

No offense, but I don't think it makes sense to have Upper Crust Wood Fired Pizza and California Pizza Kitchen a block or less apart from each other. Both are wood fired/stone fired gourmet pizza concepts. I do however agree that they will probably try some outparcel development should a Whole Foods be built. Other than WF, I'd really like to see some housing developed.

[bwana_bob]

Here's my vote for a McCormick & Schmick restaurant or Capitol Grille if you want an upscale national chain that is not represented locally.

[sroberts24]

I like the 5 floors through out the campus, but I was hoping that if they built a hotel for their guests and housing for their employees they would build a little higher... I would love to see a few 15-20 story buildings go up right there. It would really add to the expressway skyline. Aubrey did say he wanted downtown to be the main draw of OKC but 63rd and Western to be right behind what better way to do that than building higher housing and hotel to go along with all the retail they are putting in... just my personal opinion

[metro]

sroberts, just curious but when did Aubrey say that? Can you provide a link, I'd love to read those comments.

[sroberts24]

sroberts, just curious but when did Aubrey say that? Can you provide a link, I'd love to read those comments.

“I want to turn 63rd and Western into the second major focal point of this community. Downtown will always be the first. I want this to be the second center of the universe in Oklahoma City,” he said.

From the article posted on the top of page 16 of this thread from the okgazette

Chesapeake?s Aubrey McClendon aims to cement legacy with sprawling campus | OKG Scene.com

I was a little off on what he said but this is what I was talking about

[icecold]

However, the land that is closer to I44 and Broadway Ext would be more conducive for high rise, whether it be CHPK or another corperation.

I think you are meaning something like this.....



http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-are...oaday-ext.html

[jbkrems]

Metro, interesting analysis. Bwana Bob --- I would love to see BOTH McCormick's, and Capital Grille have restaurants in OKC and/or Tulsa.

[Jethrol]

I seriously doubt family history has anything to do with it. Geez, he was a great nephew of the Kerr family, big deal.

You need to reread my post, you completely missed my point.

He didn't "inherit" an oil empire or anything, he and Tom Ward started it from the ground up with a minimal investment back in the 80's.

I know the history...thanks but it's not relevant. My point was they could have built a large building but they didn't and it didn't have anything to do with zoning laws.

They are both suburban type guys. Type of building has nothing to do with flatter management structure. They have plenty of management structure, they're just spread out in like 20 different buildings instead of 1. If anything, more buildings complicates processes, not streamlines them.

The sprawling campus was a conscious decision and it's obvious as it has developed. When it was younger, many thought it was random and hap-hazard creation of buildings. Now that it's starting to come together, it's quite obvious there was a master plan....long ago.

[Wishbone]

When are they going to fix the roads leading up to and around Chesapeake? The potholes and manholes on Western are almost unavoidable now and 63rd street isn't much better.