1 killed, 1 injured at Crossroads Mall

[Patrick]

I know many of you don't like us calling Crossroads Mall "Ganbanger Central," but today it proved that it was just that. I don't see Crossroads ever becoming anything more than breading grounds for gangs. Mall management has simply allowed it to come to that.


1 dead, 1 injured in mall shooting

By Mark Hutchinson
The Oklahoman

One person is dead and another injured after a shooting Saturday at Crossroads Mall in south Oklahoma City.


An Oklahoma County sheriff's deputy on-duty at the mall heard people fighting near JC Penney and saw a male shoot another male with a gun, said Oklahoma County Sheriff John Whetsel.

The deputy fatally shot the gunman, Whetsel said.

The person who was initially shot was taken to a city hospital, Whetsel said. His condition is not known.

[OklaCity_75]

You beat me to it.......


My headline was going to be Shooting at Crossroads.....Like this should suprise any of us.

[Patrick]

LOL! Sorry OklaCity_75! By the way, Crossroads is going to have one heck of a time leasing in the future. This has already made national headlines. It's all over CNN and ABC News.

[OklaCity_75]

On another note I expect Macy's to leave that mall within one year.

Crossroads just does not fit into Macy's customer base.

People who live in SW OKC that would shop there will go to Sooner Mall before they go to Crossroads.

[plmccordj]

I am curious... Since this post was meant to portray Crossroads in a way as to imply that shootings happen all the time, when was the last shooting at Crossroads? Lets use this deductive thinking. Since Edmond is the only city in the metro that has had a post office shooting, we can conclude that Edmond is the most dangerous place in Oklahoma.

Just an observation.
Paul

[Patrick]

I am curious... Since this post was meant to portray Crossroads in a way as to imply that shootings happen all the time, when was the last shooting at Crossroads? Lets use this deductive thinking. Since Edmond is the only city in the metro that has had a post office shooting, we can conclude that Edmond is the most dangerous place in Oklahoma.

Just an observation.
Paul

1st shooting there, but I'm really surprised there's only been one. Go there on a given weekend night, and you'll see gangs gathering throughout the mall.

My wife and I went there several months ago at night. There were a couple of Mexican gangs roaming the mall. We got down to the JC Penney end at the lower level. There was this rough looking man and his wife, and the police was putting him in cuffs. She was crying and pleading with police not to arrest him. I think he had drugs on him.

Stuff goes on at Crossroads quite often, even if it isn't as severe as what happened tonight.

[plmccordj]

Since December 6, 2004

Within a 3/4 mile radius of
Quail Springs Mall
2501 West Memorial Road
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73134


BLOCK ADDRESS OFN_DESC OCR_DATE CITY CLS_DESC STATE
12800 BLOCK OF STRATFORD DR DOM VIOLENCE 2004-12-06 Oklahoma City ASLT SMPL CIT OK
2100 BLOCK OF W MEMORIAL RD ROBBERY I 2004-12-05 Oklahoma City ROB S/A MIS OK
2600 BLOCK OF FEATHERSTONE RD RAPE 1 2004-12-05 Oklahoma City RAPE FORCE OK
13300 BLOCK OF PLAZA TE LARC VEHICLE 2004-12-01 Oklahoma City AUT/STLN LRL OK............

Visit this link for further info.... http://newsok.com/news/crime/

Sounds to me like crime is everywhere. I happily live on the South side and I notice a trend on this board and the Hornets board to trash the South side. I mean no disrespect but I feel no shame in living in an area that don't leave debt to my kids and grand kids,

Paul

[aintaokie]

I went to the movies at Crossroads over a year ago. When we came out cops were everywhere trying to break up two fights with gang bangers. One at the front another in the parking lot. Haven't been back since. Crossroads mall is gang banger central...been like that for a long time and it ain't gonna change. Such a shame for what used to be a nice mall.

[Keith]

I know many of you don't like us calling Crossroads Mall "Ganbanger Central," but today it proved that it was just that. I don't see Crossroads ever becoming anything more than breading grounds for gangs. Mall management has simply allowed it to come to that.


1 dead, 1 injured in mall shooting

By Mark Hutchinson
The Oklahoman

One person is dead and another injured after a shooting Saturday at Crossroads Mall in south Oklahoma City.


An Oklahoma County sheriff's deputy on-duty at the mall heard people fighting near JC Penney and saw a male shoot another male with a gun, said Oklahoma County Sheriff John Whetsel.

The deputy fatally shot the gunman, Whetsel said.

The person who was initially shot was taken to a city hospital, Whetsel said. His condition is not known.

Man, you even beat me, Patrick. I posted this in the current events forum, not knowing that you had already posted in the OKC Metro Talk forum. One note: I watched channel 9 news this evening, and watched them interview some witnesses. A few that they interviewed looked like gang bangers.

I actually heard the call over my police scanner when it happened..then I called Patrick and told him. Here is my post.

It seems that many people will not shop at Crossroads Mall because they feel it is gang infested, and that there is always some type of trouble there.

This evening, I was on my way to Academy Sports, listening to my police scanner, when all of a sudden a frantic voice came over the air, requesting some immediate assistance at Crossroads Mall. It was the voice of an off duty officer, reporting shots fired inside Crossroads Mall.

I sat in my truck, listening for any more information. Several officers and a Lt. immediately responded to the mall. Just about that time, the off duty officer reported that shots had been fired and that the shooting involved a sheriff's deputy. After that conversation, there was nothing more said on the air.

My son was at work at the mall when the shooting took place. He works at Chick-Fil-A, and did not even know that anything had happened. He was actually back behind the counter cooking the chicken. He said he looked up, and all of the cashiers and other employees ran for cover. Then he saw many people in the mall scurrying, trying to find a place to hide.

Here's the story. A deputy sheriff, working at the mall, decided to have dinnerl, and while he was eating, a patron approached him and informed him that there was a fight going on over by JC Penney. As he arrived, he witnessed a subject shooting another subject. The deputy pulled out his weapon and ordered the gunman to drop his gun. About the time he told him to drop the gun, the gunman turned around and made a motion, indicating that he was going to keep shooting. At that time, the deputy fired a round, striking the gunmen. The gunmen did die, and they took the other victim to the hospital.....not sure of their condition.

As of 9 PM., Sheriff Whetsel said that they were still trying to determine what happened and that they had a bunch of good witnesses.

Yep, makes me want to shop there.

[Karried]

Since December 6, 2004

Within a 3/4 mile radius of
Quail Springs Mall

That's OKC.... and the area South of Quail Springs is filled with apartments and crime.
If that's not enough, people in that area know that they can go north and steal more valuable items from people who work hard for their money, hence the higher crime rate. Why would you steal from people who have less than you do?


And, while you're at it, why don't you post the same data surrounding the Crossroad's mall area in the same time frame?

[okcitian]

My sister happend to be in the mall during the shooting. I never go to Crossroads and almost feel like never going there again unless it's to the movies.

[Patrick]

Karried is right. There are rough areas around Quail Springs as well. 122nd and Penn isn't the best part of town. Those apartments have gone downhill over the years. I've heard horror stories at the Highlands and at Rain Dance apartments. The Village as a whole has been in decline for sometime now.

Also, look at Penn Square. South of the mall isn't the best part of town.

But, there are a few differences. First, Crossroads is surrounded with slums. At least Penn Square and Quail Springs have nice areas to the north and west (for both malls).

Also, I think the type of stores you have dictates clientale.

Also, mranderson has mentioned this before, but I think security at Crossroads is more lax. They tend to let the teenagers hang around in the mall all night even if they have no business there. At both Penn and Quail, I've seen officers escort kids out of the mall who had no business there.

[Patrick]

Sounds to me like crime is everywhere. I happily live on the South side and I notice a trend on this board and the Hornets board to trash the South side. I mean no disrespect but I feel no shame in living in an area that don't leave debt to my kids and grand kids,

Paul

Some parts of the south side are very nice. Take Rivendell for instance.

I blame mall security and mall management more than anything else.

Also, I think management at Penn Square has the right idea. No arcade and no large movie theater leads to fewer problems.

[OklaCity_75]

Since December 6, 2004

Within a 3/4 mile radius of
Quail Springs Mall

That's OKC.... and the area South of Quail Springs is filled with apartments and crime.
If that's not enough, people in that area know that they can go north and steal more valuable items from people who work hard for their money, hence the higher crime rate. Why would you steal from people who have less than you do?


And, while you're at it, why don't you post the same data surrounding the Crossroad's mall area in the same time frame?

The main point behind posting this thread is to draw attention to the fact Crossroads has some serious security that need to be addressed.

Crime can happen anywhere at anytime. There is no place in the world that can be free of crime. Crime is similar to the average household cockroach. When you create the environment that attracts roaches, guess what? Eventually you will have cockroaches. High crime areas operate in the same manner.

Crossroads management let their mall slide to the status it is now. While other malls were staying with the times and investing money in their facilities, Crossroads was just watching the world go by.

The only major investment they have made in the last 10 years was the security system. Obviously, the security system failed or security was not paying attention to the altercation that broke out. There are cameras on practically every inch of the public areas of the mall. An Alert security officer would have stopped it before it turned into a shooting.

Oklahoma City Police are well aware of how bad the conditions are at Crossroads. One of my instructors at school who is an officer with the Santa Fe Division told us in class that it was only a matter of time before a shooting happened at Crossroads. He said he could go in there at any given time and identify groups of gang members. On a couple of occasions, he has gone in there for lunch and could see the tension between the rival gangs. He also stated that the police have contacted the management and they act as if the police are over reacting and it is not a problem.

Crossroads has no choice now but to fix the security problems. This incident will cost them some serious customer traffic. Maybe now they will realize that they need to fix the problems yesterday.

I am sure Macy’s corporate office is not going to be happy to hear one of their newly adopted stores is in a crime-ridden mall in a crime-ridden area.

[Patrick]

I looked at Crime Tracker and here's what I came up with. One thing I noticed on the map.....not a lot around the mall itself....of course the mall is out by itself. But, just west of the mall is filled with crime. Penn Square shows to be the worst, but it's also surrounded by neighborhoods, unlike the other malls.

All 3/4 mile radius:

Crossroads Mall...past year:
4 Robbery
18 Assault
14 Burglary
22 Auto Theft

58 crimes found within a 0.75 mile radius of 7000 Crossroads Blvd..



Quail Springs Mall...past year

1 Homicide
3 Rape
10 Robbery
68 Assault
42 Burglary
31 Auto Theft

155 crimes found within a 0.75 mile radius of 2501 West Memorial Rd.



Penn Square Mall....past year

1 Homicide
4 Rape
17 Robbery
57 Assault
53 Burglary
36 Auto Theft
1 Arson

169 crimes found within a 0.75 mile radius of 1901 Northwest Expressway.

[OklaCity_75]

You can thank the housing program that was started in the 90's for most of NW OKC and the area south of Quail's demise.

This program moved section 8 housing into suburban areas. The completely twisted theory is if you move people that are trash into nice neighborhoods they become better people.

In reality you move the trash into the nice areas they destroy the neighborhoods and those with money move away to neighborhoods that have no section 8. To make sure it never comes in you move to a gated community that has bi-laws that prohibits section 8.

The hardworking people are left behind because they cannot afford to move.

Proof of this is in the area around Wiley Post Elementary. In 1996 when one of my family members moved in it was a very nice area. The family member of mine like the area because the school was in walking distance to her home. Section 8 took over the apartments and now the area is trash.

The local neighborhood association has put up no trespassing signs. They state in a little nicer manner "If you do not live in a house in this neighborhood stay out".

[OklaCity_75]

Crossroads numbers are probably low because there are some crimes that go unreported out of fear of revenge.

Then you also need to look at the density of the population in those areas.

[BricktownGuy]

http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0506/331541.html

[Karried]

Quail Springs is surrounded by homes, condos and apt... plus many retail outlets ( shoplifting ) making it much more heavily populated.

Crossroads mall is surrounded by freeways and roads and open fields - not nearly as many houses.



I live North East - near Quail Springs mall and I've never had a problem.

I almost died when I turned on CNN this morning...Crossroads Mall was the SECOND story of the Day! How embarrassing! Oklahoma City is where they said it happened. Why is this making headline news?

[MadMonk]

http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-are...r-central.html

[plmccordj]

Just my opinion

The definition of journalism is to sensationalize everything. Drive a wedge between rich and poor, black and white, Democrat and Republican, young against old. The news media thrives on negativity. Even the weather is that way. They invent terms like "wind chill" and "heat index" so they can make it sound hotter and colder than it really is. It is a career field that has no credibility.

It is sad this happened. Yes we have crime on the South side but I still call it home. Short of bull dozing the old parts of town, I am not sure what you can do about it. You can't just move out because those new homes on the North side will not be new for ever. My house was built in 1952 and I have never had a crime happen to me personally although I know people that have. I just watch out for my neighbors and try to help create an environment where crime is not welcome.

Sorry for the rant about the media. I just don't like the news.
Paul

[Karried]

Good point.. and good post.

Every area has crime and it's a shame that people feel the need to steal, rape and kill others.

The news this weekend is so depressing.. from the earthquake to people killing their kids by throwing them off a freaking building to the lady who fell to her death skydiving etc etc... I have to stop reading the news - I'm getting depressed.

[zuluwarrior0760]

This is not perception and has nothing to do with SW OKC...
All the malls see gangs, but Crossroads has more...
I returned a gift to a store there a year ago and vowed not to return...

You know, we hear about how much more lax airport security was pre 9/11, and how Federal buildings are so much more secure post OKC Bombing, but what about the malls???

In ten years after someone unloads in one of the movie houses, are we going to nostalgically look back on shopping malls that didn't have metal detectors????

Why don't we put them in now, so that noone ever unloads in a movie theater.....

While we're at it, let's charge 20.00 admission to the malls, refundable with any 20.00 purchase....

Metal detectors and admission would make me feel safer at
Quail or Penn....but I know it'll never happen.....

Or will it???

[OUman]

Quail Springs is surrounded by homes, condos and apt... plus many retail outlets ( shoplifting ) making it much more heavily populated.

Crossroads mall is surrounded by freeways and roads and open fields - not nearly as many houses.



I live North East - near Quail Springs mall and I've never had a problem.

I almost died when I turned on CNN this morning...Crossroads Mall was the SECOND story of the Day! How embarrassing! Oklahoma City is where they said it happened. Why is this making headline news?

A. It's bad news
B. It's bad news from Oklahoma
C. Bad news from Oklahoma = good news for CNN and they love anything bad coming from Oklahoma.

In short, CNN has a history (and I've noticed this this myself) of plucking bad news from Oklahoma and making it national. I have seen but maybe an ounce of good news or good stories about Oklahoma on CNN. And it's not just Oklahoma, other southern and midwestern states are targets too, but they seem to enjoy plucking bad stuff from Oklahoma and making it national. It seems to have become one of CNN's pastimes. "Oh, bad news from Oklahoma? Woohoo! Let's air it, I don't care what it is, as long as it's something bad!" And other networks do it also, but to a lesser degree. Atleast other networks have aired something good happening in this state, either on TV or on their websites.

They invent terms like "wind chill" and "heat index" so they can make it sound hotter and colder than it really is. It is a career field that has no credibility.

Umm, "wind chill" and "heat index" are meteorological terms coined by meteorologists, and they were coined to make it simpler for the public to understand the weather, the media has nothing to do with their coming about. And they do exactly the opposite of what you said, they help people realize how hot it actually feels or how cold it actually feels (because humans don't just "feel" the ambient air temperature, they feel the effects of the sun and wind as well). But on the issue of their usage, yes, I completely agree with you there, the media generally has no clue what they mean. I also agree with you when you say the media thrives on negativity.

OUman

[Keith]

This morning, I spoke to a deputy sheriff that is a member of our church. He knew the deputy that shot the gunman at Crossroads and said that the media did not give the whole story.

Here is the story.......This was a fight between two rival gang members that started outside in the parking lot. The one gang member (the one with the gun) actually got beat up out in the parking lot by another rival gang member. During the fight, police and mall security were contacted. After he got beat up, he followed the gangbanger that beat him up, in to the mall.

The gunman then pulled out a 25 automatic hand gun and walked up to the rival gang member that beat him up, and shot him in the chest........the police were right behind him, however, by the time they reached him, he had already shot the other gang member. With weapons drawn, the police officers ordered him to put down his weapon. While standing there, the gunman tried to fire again, but his gun jammed. About that time, a sheriff's deputy, who was working at Crossroads, started down the stairs from the upper level. He noticed the gunman trying to unjam his gun, and then yelled at the gunman to drop his weapon.

The gunman then raised his gun towards another gang member, and the sheriff's deputy, as he was running down the stairs...paused....and took one shot at him, striking him in the back of the head, killing him instantly.

Noboby knows why the two OKC police officers did not fire their weapons at the suspect. After he had shot the one gang member, according to my friend, they had every right to shoot the gunman. If the deputy had not shot the gunman, he would have had the opportunity to shoot at least a few more people. The deputy saved many lives.

Since this was a crime scene, the area was taped off, and most all of the stores in the mall shut down. Here is the bad part. They were not allowed to move the dead gunman, or to cover his body, due to the fact that covering him would contaminate the evidence. They had to leave him on the floor, in a pool of blood, while shoppers were leaving the mall. From what I understand....one mother, with about a 6 year old with her, walked by the dead man's body and commented to her son that that's what happens when you get involved in gangs.