Adios Crystal Bridge?

[Raspberry]

A friend at work insists that the Crystal Bridge and Myriad Gardens will be torn down to make way for an office building and parking lot. Has anyone else heard about this?

[The Old Downtown Guy]

Your friend has been smoking too many botanicals.

[Nuclear_2525]

wow, thats probably the dumbest thing I have ever heard!!!

[Pete]

Considering there is still tons of un- and under-developed property all around there, the idea doesn't make logical sense.

And, I believe OKC is pretty much done tearing things down for a while (with the exception of the old Crosstown Expressway ).

[Midtowner]

[BDP]

No way that ever happens. The only way I see losing the bridge is if it begins to bleed so much money that we can't afford it anymore. Maybe a building goes up in that scenario, but if a parking lot is proposed, I will start a riot. There's so much parking, it almost rificulous as it is.

Mow if they said something was happeing with the car lot, I might be quicker to believe that.

[SoonerDave]

There's so much parking, it almost rificulous as it is.

Huh? So *much* parking?

You and I must be going to different Downtown Oklahoma City's. Parking is an absolute nightmare.

-SoonerDave

[Patrick]

Actually, quite the contrary. The city of OKC announced recently that they're going to do a complete overhaul of the Crystal Bridge. Over the next year or two, they're going to replace every glass panel on the bridge. It's time, due to age.

As far as costs, it simply comes out of the parks dept. budget. Admission to the bridge, is simply extra.

There's actually been talk of expanding the gardens in the future, not eliminating them.

[Patrick]

BTW, is your friend at work named Jack? Sounds like something Jack would've come up with.

[BDP]

You and I must be going to different Downtown Oklahoma City's. Parking is an absolute nightmare.

You're kidding, right? That's all we build are parking lots. You can go down there when there's a game, a convention, a civic center and a festival in bricktown and park on the street within 5 blocks of any of these things. It's amazing.

I meet my wife for lunch downtown all the time and never have to pay for parking. It's everywhere.

[Patrick]

I've never had a problem parking downtown. Pick a parking garage, any parking garage. There are tons of parking garages downtown. What's the problem? Is the problem that you have to pay to park? Well, that's the case in every major downtown area.

What I do on game nights is park away from the Ford Center over in the Arts District at a Parking Meter (free after 5PM). Works like a charm! Let everyone else fight over the $10 parking next to the Ford Center and under the Cox Center. I don't mind walking.

[ptwobjb]

You can park in the parking garage at Walker and Sheridan for "free" (there is no toll collector usually after 5 pm). It's about a 5 minute walk to the Ford Center from there. Kind of nice actually, right past the Gardens and stuff. Even when there is a collector, the price is much lower than the gouging that takes place right next to the Ford Center.

[BDP]

Let everyone else fight over the $10 parking next to the Ford Center and under the Cox Center.

Yeah, I'd much rather walk past the traffic than sit in it.

Well, that's the case in every major downtown area.

And our rates are cheaper than most, as well.

[Patrick]

Last time I was in San Antonio, I paid $12 to park near the Riverwalk.

[Pete]

I still don't understand why so many parking structures -- particularly the new ones at the Galleria -- have been built recently.

When I worked downtown in the 80's, there were more people working downtown than now and parking wasn't a problem at all.

[SoonerDave]

I think one reason for the newer, more recent parking garages is because so many of the existing parking lots have been taken up by new construction. The most recent example is the lot immediately southeast of the Bricktown Balllpark which is becoming a hotel. The lot that was directly south of the ballpark is now the Sonic building.

The problem isn't cost, its availability. On a moderately busy Friday night near the Harkins Theater, its not at all uncommon to find *zero* spaces available - taken by all those customers making urgent stink bait purchases at Bass Pro, eating at Toby Keith's, or going to the movies.

The parking garage on Sheridan isn't a bad idea, and it deposits you in the middle of the pedestrian area in Bricktown. However, it isn't always practical to plan to park at a particular location at 5pm if you can't get your family together quite that early.

The garage south of the new Courtyard wasn't built for a lark; it was built as part of a broader recognition that there aren't enough spaces in Bricktown. I regret that I cannot quote it chapter-and-verse, but I do recall more than one or two commentaries/studies about the Bricktown and downtown areas that said one critical problem was the critical lack of both hotel rooms and parking - and how that problem was only going to worsen as lots are converted into retail or commercial venues.

Yes, I realize you could go to xyz garage on the corner of 5th and Unlit Alley and walk forever, or wait for a trolley, or park at zyx lot by just getting there three hours before everyone else and just homestead. There's a practical reality at hand here; however ,those people who just don't have the sense to get there at 4pm or use those seemingly abundant garages are also the customers that will spend the money to make Bricktown survive. If our best answer for them is "Get there earlier, or ride a trolley on the opposite side of town," we're making our customers seem like a decided inconvenience.

-SoonerDave

[jbrown84]

The people you are talking about have to do the same things to park in other downtowns.

You seem to have the Oklahoma "I should be able to park 100 feet or less from the front door" mentality. You are right about the Harkins lot often being completely full, but there are usually spaces in the new lot next to the Land Run Monument, and I'm sure there is always space in the Power Alley garage, which is not in a dark alley and is not very far from anything in Bricktown.

[John]

The people you are talking about have to do the same things to park in other downtowns.

You seem to have the Oklahoma "I should be able to park 100 feet or less from the front door" mentality.

Bingo!

Parking is not a problem in either Bricktown or Downtown.

The people complaining are the same ones who keep driving around looking for the closest spot at the gym, too.

[upisgr8]

The people complaining are the same ones who keep driving around looking for the closest spot at the gym, too.

I agree and the blue haired mall walkers that park in the handcap parking.

[Patrick]

Folks, the trolleys cost like 25 cents. Yup, that's all. So park in Santa Fe Garage for free (they don't usually collect money after hours and if they do it's only $2) and ride the trolley to Bricktown.

You don't see people in NYC parking right next to the Empire State Building. Nope there's little parking in Manhattan, and the parking that is there is outrageous. People depend on the subway.

The arena south of the Courtyard wasn't built for Bricktown....it's the same distance from Bricktown as Santa Fe Garage. It was built for the Ford Center and the Courtyard.

[Midtowner]

The lack of parking has been to blame for the lack of expansion downtown. Perhaps COTPA, Oklahoma County, and OKC have embarked on a Field of Dreams strategy? (If we build it, they will come)

[ptwobjb]

You can't have a dense, thriving city and at the same time have curb side parking 10 ft from every possible attraction for every possible car that comes and visits. If that's the what you want, then visit Memorial road, where every single store comes built with a gigantic parking lot.

The Santa Fe parking garage is perhaps a 5 minute walk from anywhere in Bricktown. It doesn't require you to get there early, or do any outlandish task except walk for 5 minutes. Most people spend more than 5 minutes driving in circles looking for a closer parking spot anyways.

[BDP]

The garage south of the new Courtyard wasn't built for a lark; it was built as part of a broader recognition that there aren't enough spaces in Bricktown.

It was built for the Ford Center and due to perception not practicality. It was built for the lazy mentality of Oklahoman that would rather have parking convenience than beauty in their city.

As for Harkins, The walk from car to box office is hardly ever longer than that same walk on a Friday night at Quail Springs. And for those that are unlucky enough to park on the other side of the canal, I am sorry that we built this ugly water way that takes up your parking spaces and forces you to walk down it.

I do recall more than one or two commentaries/studies about the Bricktown and downtown areas that said one critical problem was the critical lack of both hotel rooms and parking

Are you sure about that? Maybe some commentaries of people complaining that they can not fall out of their car into the front door of where they are going, but I do know that the city has done studies which say that our parking will support full scale events at both the Ford Center and the Cox Convention center and, you know what, it's already been proven that it can several times.

Yes, I realize you could go to xyz garage on the corner of 5th and Unlit Alley and walk forever, or wait for a trolley, or park at zyx lot by just getting there three hours before everyone else and just homestead

What are you talking about? Three hours? Anyone who goes three hours early to avoid walking 30 minutes at the most is insane! You could walk around the entire perimeter of OKC's downtown four times in three hours. Get there 10 minutes before the event, park on the street and walk. If you have a condition that prevents you from walking at normal speed, I sincerely apologize. And if there are not enough spaces for handicap people, I 100% agree we need more, as everyone should be able to enjoy downtown. But, if not, seriously, OKC's downtown is small and you could walk from one end to the other in under an hour easily, let alone walk 5 blocks in 10-15 minutes at the most. There aren't even many long lights to wait for.

Honestly, the only reason me and others here get so upset at this attitude is that we hope that downtown can be something unique to the city and the region. Catering to the "must be at park at the front door mentality" only dilutes this hope, especially when there is more than ample parking at this point. The only way one can say there isn’t enough parking is to mean that there isn’t enough parking exclusively attached to each destination. Well, the solution to that is a strip mall where people actually drive the parking lots as they go from place to place, never walking, never interacting, never exploring, never acting like a community at all. I guess just out of the 600 square miles of this type of living, some people feel that OKC could use 1 square mile of more community and pedestrian based development.

And parking arguments aside, next time there is an event like a concert or ball game, park in one of the garages. I guarantee the time you sit and wait to get out of the garage and through traffic with everyone leaving at the same time will be longer than the time you would have spent walking to and from a space 5 blocks away. This has been true in OKC since before we even dreamed of an NBA team.

It is the easiest downtown to park in I have ever been in. It would be a shame to piss it away on more parking lots because some can't walk 5 blocks.

[SoonerDave]

First of all, let me respectfully say I'm stunned at the abrasive attitude some people have here if you dare suggest the need for more parking at Bricktown. The clear implication here is you must be some lazy, fat, drooling idiot with some "Oklahoma" mentality (whatever that is) - and the inherent derision in the comment is wholly inappropriate.

I'm not some drooling idiot, and I don't expect to park 10 feet in front of a building. I resent the inference. I stand behind the notion that it is silly to expect to establish as your long-term Bricktown plan to park in a garage on the opposite side (if not completely outside) of the area and ride a trolley in just go to the movies! As far as "homesteading," it was another poster in this thread that brought up the notion of showing up at a particular spot at 5pm. Is that intended as a solution for parking on a Friday night for a movie that starts at 7? I also *agreed* with the notion of parking in the "power alley" garage - as I have done numerous times.

If you work downtown, then it is obviously easy to suggest "park at this garage and just trolley/walk over, it's no big deal." But it *is* a big deal to the family that's never or only rarely visited downtown when you tell them how cool Bricktown is, but tell them they should park in a garage such that they can't even see their destination. It isn't about parking "ten feet from the door," it's about *lines of sight*.

I fully realize that parking around the Empire State Building and other larger downtown/metropolitan areas is different. That's a good thing. I want a nice downtown entertainment district, but I don't *want* OKC to become Manhattan, or New York City, or (fill in the blank). Perhaps something that's being lost here is the reality that Oklahoma is a commuter-oriented city in a commuter-oriented state, and that means cars are a reality that must be dealt with.

Keep in mind that new residential space is on the way to Bricktown/downtown, and that implies space to park tenants' vehicles, too. That continues to paint a picture of diminishing out-year parking for Bricktown, made all the worse as more hotels, shopping, and other venues are erected. Its a problem created perhaps as an indicator of our own success, I suppose.

Lastly, before we dismiss them (and I guess that means me, too, by association), that all those drooling, fat, "Oklahoma-mentality" idiots that are so roundly disparaged here are also prospective paying customers. Even if the reality is that there are millions of ideal parking spaces available, the perception that parking is inadequate exists. Solving that problem needs a solution more creative than telegraphing the message that people who think that way are just idiots.

-SoonerDave

[BDP]

the perception that parking is inadequate exists. Solving that problem needs a solution more creative than telegraphing the message that people who think that way are just idiots.

We agree!

If you work downtown, then it is obviously easy to suggest "park at this garage and just trolley/walk over, it's no big deal." But it *is* a big deal to the family that's never or only rarely visited downtown when you tell them how cool Bricktown is, but tell them they should park in a garage such that they can't even see their destination.

Doesn't that make it sound cooler?

Lastly, before we dismiss them (and I guess that means me, too, by association), that all those drooling, fat, "Oklahoma-mentality" idiots that are so roundly disparaged here are also prospective paying customers.

Which is interesting. They are obviously going to BT because it is different from their local black top strip mall. Why ruin that unique experience by using prime real estate for parking that could otherwise be used to enhance and even better that experience? I think that was the original intent of my post to begin with and why I couldn't stomach the idea of using anything valuable for more parking.

Bricktown is interesting in large part because it is not a parking lot, nor can you see a lot of parking from it. The two things that bring it down the most are the surface lot right in the middle and the ballpark garage, that basically trashes an otherwise lovely view from the ball park.

The clear implication here is you must be some lazy, fat, drooling idiot with some "Oklahoma" mentality (whatever that is) - and the inherent derision in the comment is wholly inappropriate.

I hear you on the fat and drooling thing. As pointed out before, there are people who drive around for a close parking spot when going to the gym. But, is it not lazy to insist we have more parking in a downtown full of parking just because there isn't parking equal to capacity at each specific destination? Isn't laziness where that perception comes from? What other motivation would we be catering to than laziness by building more parking?

Seriously, we are a commuting city with an average commute of around 17 minutes. Isn't that actually reason to have an area where you get out of the car and walk, because 1) we're always in our cars and 2) we have time to walk even after commuting?