OU Academic Rankings

[dcsooner]

US News rankings for Graduate schools released. I maybe an outlier to most on this board, but I am really disappointed in OU academic rankings. Engineering (110), Business (86). Health (74). Law (88). Undergrad (127). Listen I love OU football, however, the relatively low ranking of the States supposed Flagship university in almost every meaningful category ( I get Petroleum engineering, dance etc) is shameful. I love football as much as anyone but the apparent willingness to excel at football at any cost and languish in academics saddens me. Oh, by the way I am an OU graduate.

[PhiAlpha]

US News rankings for Graduate schools released. I maybe an outlier to most on this board, but I am really disappointed in OU academic rankings. Engineering (110), Business (86). Health (74). Law (88). Undergrad (127). Listen I love OU football, however, the relatively low ranking of the States supposed Flagship university in almost every meaningful category ( I get Petroleum engineering, dance etc) is shameful. I love football as much as anyone but the apparent willingness to excel at football at any cost and languish in academics saddens me. Oh, by the way I am an OU graduate.

Per usual…a disparaging comment that doesn’t make any sense and places blame in the completely wrong place. You realize that the athletic program is self sustaining, is funded completely separately from the university, and provides revenue as well as a ton of exposure for the university, right?

Please expand on your comment and explain in detail how you think the football or athletic program as a whole are negatively impacting academics at OU in any way, whatsoever. I’d love to hear an argument for how a successful athletic and football program do anything other than help the university.

[Pete]

^
The ratings have generally improved over the years but until the state decides to quit de-funding education, there is only so much that the school can do.

Football more than pays for the entire athletic department and certainly encourages donations to the university as a whole, so you are barking up the wrong tree in that regard.

[dcsooner]

Listen, the solution I do not have but if people are accepting of the Academic Standing of OU so be it. Football was used because the mindset of the University from its founding

In the early glory days of University Oklahoma football – just after the school had won its first mythical national championship – then-University President Dr. George L. Cross found himself defending a budget request to the State Legislature’s appropriations committee.

”Yes, that’s all well and good,” responded one State Senator. ”But what kind of football team are we going to have this year?”

Dr. Cross’s cynical but witty reply: ”We want to build a university our football team can be proud of.”

[cinnamonjock]

OU Law ranked 31st as recently as 2020. Since then, many tenured faculty members have retired and the rumor is the school was only allowed to hire one tenured-track faculty member a year. This led to a huge increase in the reliance on adjunct professors--particularly professors that had never taught before and held a full-time legal career outside of the school. Oklahoma also switched to the Universal Bar Exam (UBE) in 2021 and the faculty have not pivoted their teaching to reflect that. As a result, Bar passage rates recently have been terrible. Prior to 2021, OU Law enjoyed a passage rate of about 95%. In the four exams since then, passage rates for OU have been 88%, 50%, 82%, and 61%. Overall passage rates for the most recent Bar Exam were 37% (!). OU Law is still the best law school in Oklahoma, handedly out-performing TU and OCU (TU is ranked 118 and OCU is ranked 147-192, which is essentially unranked), but unless they get serious about acquiring good, long-term professors and focusing on the UBE, I fear they will continue to slip in the rankings.

[PhiAlpha]

Listen, the solution I do not have but if people are accepting of the Academic Standing of OU so be it. Football was used because the mindset of the University from its founding

In the early glory days of University Oklahoma football – just after the school had won its first mythical national championship – then-University President Dr. George L. Cross found himself defending a budget request to the State Legislature’s appropriations committee.

”Yes, that’s all well and good,” responded one State Senator. ”But what kind of football team are we going to have this year?”

Dr. Cross’s cynical but witty reply: ”We want to build a university our football team can be proud of.”

What on earth are you talking about?

1) Mythical national championship? He said that in 1951 after they won a CONSENSUS national championship in 1950.

2) How was that the mindset since it’s founding? Do you think George Lynn cross was president in 1890? He didn’t start his tenure as president until 1943. Football was a relatively new sport in 1890 and OU didn’t even get decent until after Bennie Owen was hired in 1905. And didn’t become a power house program until the late 40s and early 50s….nearly 60 YEARS after the university was founded

Get your history straight before going off on tangents that don’t make any sense historically to justify whatever weak point you were trying to make to start. Academics need to improve but football and the athletic program being excellent/relevant so nothing but help bring OU closer to that goal. Look no further than pre 2000 NC vs post 2000 NC.

[PhiAlpha]

OU Law ranked 31st as recently as 2020. Since then, many tenured faculty members have retired and the rumor is the school was only allowed to hire one tenured-track faculty member a year. This led to a huge increase in the reliance on adjunct professors--particularly professors that had never taught before and held a full-time legal career outside of the school. Oklahoma also switched to the Universal Bar Exam (UBE) in 2021 and the faculty have not pivoted their teaching to reflect that. As a result, Bar passage rates recently have been terrible. Prior to 2021, OU Law enjoyed a passage rate of about 95%. In the four exams since then, passage rates for OU have been 88%, 50%, 82%, and 61%. Overall passage rates for the most recent Bar Exam were 37% (!). OU Law is still the best law school in Oklahoma, handedly out-performing TU and OCU (TU is ranked 118 and OCU is ranked 147-192, which is essentially unranked), but unless they get serious about acquiring good, long-term professors and focusing on the UBE, I fear they will continue to slip in the rankings.

with the former Dean of the law school as president…that would seem to only help

[dcsooner]

What on earth are you talking about?

1) Mythical national championship? He said that in 1951 after they won a CONSENSUS national championship in 1950.

2) How was that the mindset since it’s founding? Do you think George Lynn cross was president in 1890? He didn’t start his tenure as president until 1943. Football was a relatively new sport in 1890 and OU didn’t even get decent until after Bennie Owen was hired in 1905. And didn’t become a power house program until the late 40s and early 50s.

Get your history straight before going off on tangents that don’t make any sense historically to justify whatever weak point you were trying to make to start. Academics need to improve but football and the athletic program being excellent/relevant so nothing but help bring OU closer to that goal. Look no further than pre 2000 NC vs post 2000 NC.

Hey Man, don't blow a gasket. If you disagree with my analogy, OK or even my take on academics.OK, no need to be so defensive, its just my opinion

[PhiAlpha]

Hey Man, don't blow a gasket. If you disagree with my analogy, OK or even my take on academics.OK, no need to be so defensive, its just my opinion

You threw out inaccurate facts to back up one of your usual over the top negative opinions. It’s not an opinion when you’re factually wrong. Stop throwing out dumb opinions that you can’t back up. If 99% of your posts are negative, provide no constructive feedback and you give completely bogus justification for them…expect reactions like mine when speaking about things others care about…

[chssooner]

Hey Man, don't blow a gasket. If you disagree with my analogy, OK or even my take on academics.OK, no need to be so defensive, its just my opinion

Throwing out pipe bombs, and then being upset when they blow up, is the definition of a troll.

I agree with you that the rankings aren't good. But then you go on and wax poetic, spouting your opinions as facts. You can't be mad when someone counters and proves your opinion and bad facts wrong.

[dcsooner]

Throwing out pipe bombs, and then being upset when they blow up, is the definition of a troll.

I agree with you that the rankings aren't good. But then you go on and wax poetic, spouting your opinions as facts. You can't be mad when someone counters and proves your opinion and bad facts wrong.

The statement I quoted is a factual statement. Address the point, which is one you agreed with "rankings aren't good". These other objections are just deflections from that fact. Oh, and as an aside, I certainly am not upset Lol

[PhiAlpha]

The statement I quoted is a factual statement. Address the point, which is one you agreed with "rankings aren't good". These other objections are just deflections from that fact. Oh, and as an aside, I certainly am not upset Lol

Are you intentionally ignoring the rest of your post? You more than insinuate that the academic rankings are low because the school focuses too much on the football program and not enough on academics and then tried to make some stupid argument that it’s been that way since it was founded despite the fact that the program wasn’t all that relevant until 60 years later. Then ignore reality about the relationship between academics and the athletic department today.

[chssooner]

Are you intentionally ignoring the rest of your post? You more than insinuate that the academic rankings are low because the school focuses too much on the football program and not enough on academics and then tried to make some stupid argument that it’s been that way since it was founded despite the fact that the program wasn’t all that relevant until 60 years later. Then ignore reality about the relationship between academics and the athletic department today.

Thats why Texas has improved academically. They have been garbage on the field to make up for it.

[Rover]

US News rankings for Graduate schools released. I maybe an outlier to most on this board, but I am really disappointed in OU academic rankings. Engineering (110), Business (86). Health (74). Law (88). Undergrad (127). Listen I love OU football, however, the relatively low ranking of the States supposed Flagship university in almost every meaningful category ( I get Petroleum engineering, dance etc) is shameful. I love football as much as anyone but the apparent willingness to excel at football at any cost and languish in academics saddens me. Oh, by the way I am an OU graduate.

Given the state's political fight with education and intellectualism, their continued lack of funding, their propensity to put more effort into the culture wars they fantasize about with universities, it is amazing OU can be rated at highly as it is. I sucks to be the other Oklahoma universities and colleges who are still looking up to even that.

You apparently don't know much about your school if you don't know that the athletic department is self sufficient and is in fact a net donor to the university. It not only isn't a distraction, it is part of what is enabling it to stay as academically competitive as it is.

As long as the state political leadership is anti education, we get what we get.

[ditm4567]

OU Law ranked 31st as recently as 2020. Since then, many tenured faculty members have retired and the rumor is the school was only allowed to hire one tenured-track faculty member a year. This led to a huge increase in the reliance on adjunct professors--particularly professors that had never taught before and held a full-time legal career outside of the school. Oklahoma also switched to the Universal Bar Exam (UBE) in 2021 and the faculty have not pivoted their teaching to reflect that. As a result, Bar passage rates recently have been terrible. Prior to 2021, OU Law enjoyed a passage rate of about 95%. In the four exams since then, passage rates for OU have been 88%, 50%, 82%, and 61%. Overall passage rates for the most recent Bar Exam were 37% (!). OU Law is still the best law school in Oklahoma, handedly out-performing TU and OCU (TU is ranked 118 and OCU is ranked 147-192, which is essentially unranked), but unless they get serious about acquiring good, long-term professors and focusing on the UBE, I fear they will continue to slip in the rankings.

As a recent law school grad and someone that passed the UBE the first time it was administered in Oklahoma, I would like to share some thoughts. Nothing is hurting bar passage rates more than law schools--it is a national issue; just search Reddit--refusing to provide/push any other bar prep software other than Barbri. Also, 99% of my day in practice consists of nothing that was covered/taught in law school.

[Laramie]

Until Oklahoma begins to fund higher education of its universities, colleges and schools, you're not going to see major changes in rankings regardless of what methodology is used .

Does anyone know of any years where Oklahoma's congressional leadership had large increases in funding education of our public schools or university-college levels enough to make a difference . . .

That doesn't mean Oklahoma shouldn't be funding education as a whole. It is going to take years of research on this concern to get Oklahoma moving in the right direction. You need to identify why Oklahoma lags in education using more than U. S. News and World Reports

What you invest $$$ in funding education is what you'll get from it.

[Pete]

Also, 99% of my day in practice consists of nothing that was covered/taught in law school.

Just like every other job and degree.

[Jersey Boss]

OU Law ranked 31st as recently as 2020. Since then, many tenured faculty members have retired and the rumor is the school was only allowed to hire one tenured-track faculty member a year. This led to a huge increase in the reliance on adjunct professors--particularly professors that had never taught before and held a full-time legal career outside of the school. Oklahoma also switched to the Universal Bar Exam (UBE) in 2021 and the faculty have not pivoted their teaching to reflect that. As a result, Bar passage rates recently have been terrible. Prior to 2021, OU Law enjoyed a passage rate of about 95%. In the four exams since then, passage rates for OU have been 88%, 50%, 82%, and 61%. Overall passage rates for the most recent Bar Exam were 37% (!). OU Law is still the best law school in Oklahoma, handedly out-performing TU and OCU (TU is ranked 118 and OCU is ranked 147-192, which is essentially unranked), but unless they get serious about acquiring good, long-term professors and focusing on the UBE, I fear they will continue to slip in the rankings.

What is the methadology of determining % of passeing of the Bar? Is it all eligible grads who passed or is it based on those who took it?
That 50% represents a covid year where many who were eligible did not take the test based on the setup it was administered under.

[PhiAlpha]

Just like every other job and degree.

Frustratingly spot on

[dankrutka]

Which criteria in this academic ranking do y’all think OU most needs to improve in? How do you think they’d accomplish that? Do you think it’s in the best interest of the students and faculty to make those changes?

[HangryHippo]

Which criteria in this academic ranking do y’all think OU most needs to improve in? How do you think they’d accomplish that? Do you think it’s in the best interest of the students and faculty to make those changes?

I always appreciate your insight and commentary on these rankings. But while they matter, it’s frustrating to have such a poor showing. Not surprising, given how much OK values education.

[ditm4567]

What is the methadology of determining % of passeing of the Bar? Is it all eligible grads who passed or is it based on those who took it?
That 50% represents a covid year where many who were eligible did not take the test based on the setup it was administered under.

Here you go: https://okbbe.com/Bar-Exam-Statistics/default.aspx

[Bill Robertson]

Personally speaking I don't care a whole lot about academic rankings. Again just a personal observation but myself and everyone else I know that graduated from OU had their degree get them where they expected to go.

[Jersey Boss]

https://www.reuters.com/legal/govern...rs-2023-03-31/

This article sheds light on the national problems of law schools. Covid made a big hit on academics everywhere.

[Jersey Boss]

Personally speaking I don't care a whole lot about academic rankings. Again just a personal observation but myself and everyone else I know that graduated from OU had their degree get them where they expected to go.

Rankings impact alumni/donor contributions as well as potential candidates to fill teaching positions.