Kalidy Kia hate thread

[Zuplar]

Let's leave Bigfoot out of this. He's just been trying to live a peaceful life in the woods for years.

[therhett17]

What gets me is the whole "poofy hair junior" thing, like wtf?

[Cid]

You always have to know your audience. Back when I had my comic shops we advertised during "Adult Swim" on Cartoon Network, during their late night programming. We had one commercial campaign we used there a couple of times, with a rather annoying commercial, but it was EFFECTIVE. We always got a few messages/complaints about it, but by and large it had a very effective response (coming in to listen to the voicemails after these commercials ran was always interesting).

That being said, it would have been terrible to run these in the afternoon or during prime time or such.

Wow, I didn't know you ran comic shops! That's really cool! Do you mind me asking which ones? Were yours part of any of that backlash from the mid-90s where some of the local shops got in trouble for selling adult-oriented books to underage kids? Not asking you to uncover any negativity here, but I would love to hear more from the inside on that.

[jerrywall]

Wow, I didn't know you ran comic shops! That's really cool! Do you mind me asking which ones? Were yours part of any of that backlash from the mid-90s where some of the local shops got in trouble for selling adult-oriented books to underage kids? Not asking you to uncover any negativity here, but I would love to hear more from the inside on that.

I owned Atomic Comics in South OKC at 59th and Western. I luckily missed the backlash in the mid 90's, although it wasn't far from me (it was also a few years before my time). That place was Planet Comics, just a couple of miles down the road from where my shop was. I was also a partner in a shop in Edmond for a bit, but I wasn't actively involved in the day to day by that point. (I also ran SoonerCon - a local scifi-pop culture show - from 2006-2015)

It did have some secondary consequences for me. For years I would have a couple of uniformed police officers show up and walk through the store, checking out the shelves, before walking out. I never could prove it, but I felt they were always looking for something. And anytime I did have any reasons to deal with the police in regard to the shop it was always a hostile interaction.

Here's some more information about the Planet Comics incident -

http://cbldf.org/about-us/case-files...planet-comics/

The tragic part for me is that the group that instigated this was Oklahomans for Children and Families, the same group of Tin Drum incident fame. What makes it especially hard hitting is that "Oklahomans for Children and Families" was originally "Oklahoman's Against Pornography" and was founded by my grandfather. Not a source of pride there. He had passed away years before these events, but I think even he would have thought the org went too far in their purity drives.

[Cid]

I owned Atomic Comics in South OKC at 59th and Western. I luckily missed the backlash in the mid 90's, although it wasn't far from me (it was also a few years before my time). That place was Planet Comics, just a couple of miles down the road from where my shop was. I was also a partner in a shop in Edmond for a bit, but I wasn't actively involved in the day to day by that point. (I also ran SoonerCon - a local scifi-pop culture show - from 2006-2015)

It did have some secondary consequences for me. For years I would have a couple of uniformed police officers show up and walk through the store, checking out the shelves, before walking out. I never could prove it, but I felt they were always looking for something. And anytime I did have any reasons to deal with the police in regard to the shop it was always a hostile interaction.

Here's some more information about the Planet Comics incident -

http://cbldf.org/about-us/case-files...planet-comics/

The tragic part for me is that the group that instigated this was Oklahomans for Children and Families, the same group of Tin Drum incident fame. What makes it especially hard hitting is that "Oklahomans for Children and Families" was originally "Oklahoman's Against Pornography" and was founded by my grandfather. Not a source of pride there. He had passed away years before these events, but I think even he would have thought the org went too far in their purity drives.

Wow, what a small world.

I went to SoonerCon a few times, but if I recall correctly it was in the 90s.

I also worked at the Hobby Shop in Penn Square / Crossroads Mall in the early 90's as well, so a somewhat related industry since they sold some comics, RPG games, etc. I probably know you or knew you at one time since there is so much crossover. John Hunter from Planet Comics actually worked at the Hobby Shop for a short while before starting his comic shop.

Interesting info on that group. Funny how easily we can now shake our heads at the bizarre things so many puritans did. Before that, in the 80s it was D&D and satan worship. Now we have one of the most popular shows on Netflix, Stranger Things, where D&D is central to the story. Times change.

[Martin]

this all takes me back...

i remember but never went to atomic comics at 59th and western. planet comics was my weekly trip early on in junior high around 91-92. i had moved on to other interests by the time of the 'scandal.'

and i absolutely loved the hobby shop. we'd most often go to the one in crossroads. i think i spent most of my time in the upstairs space looking at all the tabletop gaming miniatures. i was never really interested in playing but liked the game art and the painted miniatures. white dwarf was a regular purchase. the thing i remember most about the penn square store was the full size alien from 'this island earth.'

good times.

[Roger S]

You always have to know your audience. Back when I had my comic shops we advertised during "Adult Swim" on Cartoon Network, during their late night programming.

I advertised my game store at the AMC theaters. The opening night of my ad I went to the Crossroads theater to watch it and there were 2 gamers sitting behind me talking about gaming the entire time. So I sat there in anticipation of getting to hear their conversation about the ad and then........ It didn't play!

On the plus side it ended up getting us a free month of advertising after I threw a fit about it.

[rayvaflav]

Pretty good marketing snag, rumor has it that getting the elusive Bigfoot contract from The William-Morris agency took a lot of networking.

[jccouger]

Car dealerships suck.

Seems like a good time to remind everybody that our legislature is trying to force consumers to use car dealerships instead of being able to purchase directly from manufacturers.

[Rover]

Car dealerships suck.

Seems like a good time to remind everybody that our legislature is trying to force consumers to use car dealerships instead of being able to purchase directly from manufacturers.

That’s one take.
Dealerships, like other brick and mortar points of purchase, provides other valuable functions not possible strictly on line, and certain supply chain functions that would still be necessary. One of the imbalances that drive local retailers out of business is that people come and shop to find out key things about the product that you can’t see/feel/try online, and then go buy online. The retailer suffers the cost of the necessary function for the online retailer to get a free ride. This happened a lot in clothing retail. Drove many locals out of business and hurt the whole industry. It’s nearly impossible to tell quality differences, fit, true colors, etc, online.

[jerrywall]

Car dealerships suck.

Seems like a good time to remind everybody that our legislature is trying to force consumers to use car dealerships instead of being able to purchase directly from manufacturers.

I mean, that's currently the law, and has been for decades... It should probably change/evolve but it's not new.

[Jersey Boss]

I mean, that's currently the law, and has been for decades... It should probably change/evolve but it's not new.

I believe there is a similar restriction on the sale of coffins in Oklahoma. There was a court case some years back that upheld the law on retail sales from licensed funeral directors only.

I don't know if the law has since been changed.

[Cid]

That’s one take.
Dealerships, like other brick and mortar points of purchase, provides other valuable functions not possible strictly on line, and certain supply chain functions that would still be necessary. One of the imbalances that drive local retailers out of business is that people come and shop to find out key things about the product that you can’t see/feel/try online, and then go buy online. The retailer suffers the cost of the necessary function for the online retailer to get a free ride. This happened a lot in clothing retail. Drove many locals out of business and hurt the whole industry. It’s nearly impossible to tell quality differences, fit, true colors, etc, online.

I don't disagree with you on your points for the most part.

However, the tradeoff of being required to buy from dealerships rather than direct from the manufacturer is what we have in our current state. That includes absolutely atrocious sales tactics like bait and switch, false advertising, high pressure sales, merry go round salesmen, financing ripoffs, thousands of dollars being heaped on top of MSRP, etc, etc. This is only possible because we are forced to go through dealerships if we want a new car. If we want to keep it this way, so be it. But let's make sure we are considering the pros and cons in the big picture.

[Dob Hooligan]

I don't disagree with you on your points for the most part.

However, the tradeoff of being required to buy from dealerships rather than direct from the manufacturer is what we have in our current state. That includes absolutely atrocious sales tactics like bait and switch, false advertising, high pressure sales, merry go round salesmen, financing ripoffs, thousands of dollars being heaped on top of MSRP, etc, etc. This is only possible because we are forced to go through dealerships if we want a new car. If we want to keep it this way, so be it. But let's make sure we are considering the pros and cons in the big picture.

I would suggest that the vast majority of states use the franchise dealer model, like Oklahoma. I don't recall ever reading about how sales in a factory direct state are any better, or more pleasant for the buyer.

I also think the small town dealer would not be replaced under the factory direct model. I can't imagine Ford leaving a dealer in Perry, for example.

[Rover]

I don't disagree with you on your points for the most part.

However, the tradeoff of being required to buy from dealerships rather than direct from the manufacturer is what we have in our current state. That includes absolutely atrocious sales tactics like bait and switch, false advertising, high pressure sales, merry go round salesmen, financing ripoffs, thousands of dollars being heaped on top of MSRP, etc, etc. This is only possible because we are forced to go through dealerships if we want a new car. If we want to keep it this way, so be it. But let's make sure we are considering the pros and cons in the big picture.

I have a novel idea... let’s actually enact and enforce true consumer protection laws. Of course that won’t happen in this state’s political environment that is reticent to support any regulations on companies. Oddly enough the people are afraid to actually help themselves by voting out the idiots that are more concerned with legislating personal behavior than in actually helping them with a better life.

[Cid]

I would suggest that the vast majority of states use the franchise dealer model, like Oklahoma.

Yes, I don't think anyone is questioning this?

I don't recall ever reading about how sales in a factory direct state are any better, or more pleasant for the buyer.

Me either.

But this is complicated, right? There is a real mish mash of experiences out there. In addition, it's basically electric manufacturers with set pricing that make up most of the direct sales experiences, so it's a different customer, with different expectations than the vast majority of buyers.

Then again, this is mostly new to buyers, so it's probably too early to figure out how direct sales impacts overall satisfaction, etc.

I also think the small town dealer would not be replaced under the factory direct model. I can't imagine Ford leaving a dealer in Perry, for example.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that this is an either / or proposition. Allowing direct sales does not necessarily mean the replacement of the dealer system, especially in the example you gave.

[Jeepnokc]

Didn't Ford try something similar years ago in OKC? IIRC, they bought all the OKC metro dealerships and made them basically corporate stores. Don't remember the details and it didn't last.

Here is an article about getting out of the corporate dealerships

https://www.wardsauto.com/news-analy...rships-dealers

[jccouger]

Dealers don't want Electric Cars because there is so little upkeep on them. That is how they make a lot of their money, so if they get in electric cars they will just sit there while they push the ICE vehicles knowing they will make a killing on customers having to continuously having to bring them back in.

[TheTravellers]

Dealers don't want Electric Cars because there is so little upkeep on them. That is how they make a lot of their money, so if they get in electric cars they will just sit there while they push the ICE vehicles knowing they will make a killing on customers having to continuously having to bring them back in.

Yep, great thing for the customer. Jackie Cooper said "See you in 2 years" when I bought my MINI SE from them. Windshield washer fluid, coolant, and tires are the only maintenance items (brake pads don't even wear out because of regenerative braking).

[Dob Hooligan]

Didn't Ford try something similar years ago in OKC? IIRC, they bought all the OKC metro dealerships and made them basically corporate stores. Don't remember the details and it didn't last.

Here is an article about getting out of the corporate dealerships

https://www.wardsauto.com/news-analy...rships-dealers

All of what I'm reporting is from memory, so keep that in mind.

"The Auto Collection" was the brainchild of then Ford CEO Jac Nassar. He envisioned a "cradle to the grave" ecosystem that was controlled by Ford. His plan covered new car manufacture, sales, fleet sales (via their ownership of Hertz) , used car sales, parts remanufacturing (via Fred Jones and others), auto salvage and recycling. At the time Ford owned Ford, Lincoln-Mercury, Jaguar and Volvo cars. I recall they did it in OKC, Salt Lake City, Milwaukee and one other (possibly Atlanta). They got one dealer in each town to be the franchise dealer (I think it was Fred Jones in OKC). They paid each dealer good blue sky to sell and also made 5(?) year, dollar option to buy leases on the real estate. Lasted a couple years and then Ford decided to move on from the plan and Nassar as CEO.

It is also a big part of why Homeland left The Village and Bob Howard became a serious real estate developer in the downtown and midtown areas.

[Cid]

All of what I'm reporting is from memory, so keep that in mind.

"The Auto Collection" was the brainchild of then Ford CEO Jac Nassar. He envisioned a "cradle to the grave" ecosystem that was controlled by Ford. His plan covered new car manufacture, sales, fleet sales (via their ownership of Hertz) , used car sales, parts remanufacturing (via Fred Jones and others), auto salvage and recycling. At the time Ford owned Ford, Lincoln-Mercury, Jaguar and Volvo cars. I recall they did it in OKC, Salt Lake City, Milwaukee and one other (possibly Atlanta). They got one dealer in each town to be the franchise dealer (I think it was Fred Jones in OKC). They paid each dealer good blue sky to sell and also made 5(?) year, dollar option to buy leases on the real estate. Lasted a couple years and then Ford decided to move on from the plan and Nassar as CEO.

It is also a big part of why Homeland left The Village and Bob Howard became a serious real estate developer in the downtown and midtown areas.

Thank you for this!

[Urbanized]

All of what I'm reporting is from memory, so keep that in mind.

"The Auto Collection" was the brainchild of then Ford CEO Jac Nassar. He envisioned a "cradle to the grave" ecosystem that was controlled by Ford. His plan covered new car manufacture, sales, fleet sales (via their ownership of Hertz) , used car sales, parts remanufacturing (via Fred Jones and others), auto salvage and recycling. At the time Ford owned Ford, Lincoln-Mercury, Jaguar and Volvo cars. I recall they did it in OKC, Salt Lake City, Milwaukee and one other (possibly Atlanta). They got one dealer in each town to be the franchise dealer (I think it was Fred Jones in OKC). They paid each dealer good blue sky to sell and also made 5(?) year, dollar option to buy leases on the real estate. Lasted a couple years and then Ford decided to move on from the plan and Nassar as CEO.

It is also a big part of why Homeland left The Village and Bob Howard became a serious real estate developer in the downtown and midtown areas.

All of this is pretty accurate (though I can't speak to certain issues, for instance the various land deals). I worked for Fred Jones before the change and for some time during the change (I was there '93-'98). I was even in some of the Auto Collection commercials haha.

All of the existing Ford Dealers at the time also received minority interest in the entire Auto Collection as a part of the buyout. I believe Fred Jones technically retained controlling interest to comply with Oklahoma laws, but Ford was invested and heavily influential because they envisioned this as an experiment to see if they could take all of their markets this direction.

It was focused on "one price," no-haggle pricing based on the Saturn pricing model. This was especially appealing to Fred Jones for a few reasons; they had been in the Oklahoma market as a dealer since 1923 and so they had customers who had bought from them not only for decades personally, but mult-generationally. In the five years I was there I talked with MANY people who had bought from there (and often from Mr. Jones personally) in the 40s, 50s and 60s and who had bought ALL of their cars from that company.

Also Mr. Jones' family had become very involved, influential and respected in the community (they still are). So even before One Price you were expected to treat customers respectfully and to not engage in the types of tricks of the trade that most people assign to car dealers. I'm not saying it never happened, but salespeople and managers who engaged in that type of activity generally weren't welcome there for long. You just never knew who might be coming through the door and I think they didn't have an appetite for phone calls from a family friend whose kid or grandparents got ripped off by one of their salespeople.

They also had build a pretty substantial empire of - as mentioned above - parts remanufacture and wholesaling - they were among the largest in the country at these endeavors at the time - and also in the sale of and training for insurance instruments and other financial products. In other words they weren't a single-point dealer who needed to screw people to thrive. So they were a prime candidate for this pricing model from a comfort level, and also had many decades of close ties with Ford and even with Henry Ford's family.

The one price model - called "The Fred Jones Price" in marketing - wasn't the cheapest you could buy a Ford (or Lincoln, or Mercury); it was just the easiest. The price was a FAIR price, and what you saw on the window was truly what you paid for it.

The problem was that dealers weren't REQUIRED to sell their points to Ford (probably would have been illegal or at least contractually forbidden to require it), so there were several dealers in the wider metro who chose NOT to sell and stayed on the negotiation model. It didn't take long for people to figure out that they could go look at cars downtown or at other Auto Collection points, take their time, spend a salesperson's day looking at them, test driving them...and then take the price plus the VIN (or at least the equipment and MSRP) to the dealer 15 miles away and buy it for $500 less (after which they almost certainly got screwed for a lot more than that in the F&I office of the "cheaper" dealership). And it didn't take long for other dealers to even ADVERTISE that this was the way to buy a car. And heck, even at $500 less those other dealers still got a respectable gross, because, like I said, the price on the windshield was never intended to be THE CHEAPEST it COULD be sold for, it was just a FAIR price.

And once Auto Collection managers started getting skunked on too many car deals, they began to realize that their own survival depended upon being flexible on price, which in turn completely undercut the entire model.

I was no longer there when The Auto Collection abandoned the model and various dealerships were once again sold back to independent dealers, but my understanding was that Ford grew tired of the experiment (which I'm sure also involved the Ford management change Dob mentions above) and simply exercised a buyout provision in the overall agreement. They made everyone whole, sold off the dealer points, and moved on. And - though I don't know this for sure personally - I suspect pretty much everyone was OK with it at that point. Anyway, it was an interesting experiment, and it was fun to be a part of the early days of it.

[Urbanized]

I might also add that even though I only spent five years at Fred Jones as a young man I have a ton of respect for Mr. Jones' family and the way they did business when I worked there. Many of the lessons I learned regarding how to treat customers and also employees I learned when working for that company. I was never more than a pretty low level manager at the downtown Ford store, but I always felt valued and respected there. And I slept pretty good at night. Made a lot of friends, too.