Sports Betting in OK

[Pete]

I don't love aligning myself with Catholic Sooner on any topic really

But seriously, Pete, have you actually played a season of fantasy football before? I'm wondering if you're missing out on some basic understanding of how it works. The Courts which have ruled that fantasy is not gambling came to that conclusion after some heavy analysis. It makes sense to me, but that's probably because I play traditional fantasy football and understand why/how it's so different from the likes of FanDuel and DraftKings.

So, have you played?

Yes, I stated this very early on. I'm sure this is meant as a gotcha question but no dice (pun intended).

In fact, I was in rotisserie baseball way back in the early 80s.

I left all these fantasy sports when it went online and allowed people to become obsessed with it and have multiple teams. At that point it went from a few friends getting together in person to draft and have fun (we'd also meet to watch the baseball all-star game) to this crazed thing it has become which in my view is no different than just wagering on games or any other type of sports betting.

I don't like gambling of any kind. I don't do March Madness pools or any of that stuff... It's just a terrible way to spend money, which has been proven a million different ways. Especially when it comes to sports, there is plenty to make them interesting than just the thrill of risking money.

[Pete]

So, according to you fantasy guys, daily fantasy is not gambling either?

Because that's the transition FanDuel and DraftKing made to start raking in big bucks.

[PhiAlpha]

Everyone understands there was a dubious government ruling about fantasy sports.

And also everyone understands there is no more skill in picking a fantasy team than any other type of sports betting.


Look, do what you want. But all these protests from fantasy players just underscore the central point: the same people who justify fantasy as not gambling will use the legality of other forms of sports betting to dive into that, too.

For one, yes it does take more skill and background knowledge to pick/manage a team over a season and be successful than it does to play blackjack or pull the handle on a slot machine …hence why some people are way better at it than others. There is still a degree of chance involved regarding injuries and certain players having the game of their life in any given week but in general it is much less a game of chance than blackjack, slots, poker or even some traditional sports bets. If you were putting serious money on it, it would be more comparable to playing the stock or crypto market than any type traditional gambling.

Is putting money on anything gambling to an extent, sure. The same could be said of using your knowledge and ability to predict the future and play the stock market. The main difference in traditional fantasy sports vs draft kings/fan duel is the amount and frequency of money being bet and the the fact that you’re betting an undetermined amount of money against the house in most cases, not a defined amount of money against a small group of people over 16 weeks.

In any event, this just seems like another example of a topic in which posters have provided reasonable points against your position and you’ve just already decided that you’re right lol. No minds are going to be changed here. I’ll leave you all to the discussion and resume my degenerate gambling habits of playing in golf tournaments and participating in traditional fantasy football.

[PhiAlpha]

So, according to you fantasy guys, daily fantasy is not gambling either?

Because that's the transition FanDuel and DraftKing made to start raking in big bucks.

yes daily fantasy football betting against the house is gambling. Have draft kings or Fanduel ever been any thing other than daily fantasy gambling apps?

[Pete]

In any event, this just seems like another example of a topic in which posters have provided reasonable points against your position and you’ve just already decided that you’re right lol. No minds are going to be changed here. I’ll leave you all to the discussion and resume my degenerate gambling habits of playing in golf tournaments and participating in traditional fantasy football.

By your logic, there is no use discussing anything, especially something new and not yet decided in our very state.

And no need to get personal just because you frequently disagree with me.

[PhiAlpha]

By your logic, there is no use discussing anything, especially something new and not yet decided in our very state.

And no need to get personal just because you frequently disagree with me.

Yes, discussing anything relatively controversial does frequently seem pointless these days.

And I would say that you frequently disagree with me! (Lol, only kidding)

[aDark]

So, according to you fantasy guys, daily fantasy is not gambling either?

Because that's the transition FanDuel and DraftKing made to start raking in big bucks.

Not so much a "gotcha" question as I really wanted to know if you'd played a full season of fantasy football. If you hadn't, it would make sense that the numerous Courts' rulings seemed "dubious."

To answer your question, my opinion is that Daily Fantasy (which I personally don't do and have a limited understanding of) seems like prop sports betting and therefore I would generalize it as a form of gambling.

I do distinguish it from the traditional "sports betting at a sportsbook" but recognize that gambling addiction could be stoked by it.

If I was travelling in another state and a stranger asked me about Oklahoma and if we have sports betting in Oklahoma, I'd still say no.

[aDark]

Also Pete, for what it's worth, I believe you and I are a generation apart. At risk of pissing off my fellow millennials, I'll go so far as to suggest the reason you're getting strong pushback on lumping traditional fantasy football in with being a possible "defensive gambling addict" is because fantasy football really became a mainstay as the millenial generation was reaching adulthood.

I have several groups including high school friends, college friends, law school friends, and former work colleagues who have been in various fantasy leagues for a decade or so. For many of those long-time friends our fantasy football text group is the way that we stay in touch. It's our digital "third place" in a way that social media doesn't facilitate and yet exists despite regular in-person hang-outs. Fantasy, for better or for worse, has kept friendships alive for many 25-40 year olds. I can't say if that was true of former generations as I understand those who came before us were playing fantasy before it was cool/popular. Some of my leagues don't even have a pot of money, it's just pride.

[Pete]

I just do not see the benefit to society of online sports gambling. How does sitting home alone on your phone and wagering into a void help anyone? And we know the big downsides and it's my opinion that many people don't see sports gambling like other forms of wagering (I know sports and that's a skill!), and thus there is a risk to a ton of people.

Also, putting millions on any outcome lends itself to corruption as we've already seen -- now that temptation will be infinitely higher.


I liked the fantasy leagues because it was about getting together with people at least 3x a year and the camaraderie between all of us. It also increased my interest in the sports in general. I think in the beginning we only put money in to pay the commissioner who had the terrible job of compiling all the data and taking the phone calls for the endless trades and roster moves.

Once it all went online it changed and I also know it changed the guys I was doing it with. All of them used to care about various sports teams and they will now readily admit cheering against 'their team' if it benefits their fantasy standing in some ways. That to me is spoiling the very essence of sports, so I no longer do any of this stuff.

[PhiAlpha]

yes daily fantasy football betting against the house is gambling. Have draft kings or Fanduel ever been any thing other than daily fantasy gambling apps?

To clarify this, both were founded as daily fantasy sports betting companies:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FanDuel

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DraftKings

Fan duel now offers some type of private daily full season fantasy football leagues while draftkings does not (at least not from what I can find), but neither offer traditional fantasy football like ESPN, Yahoo and similar apps.

[Pete]

Also Pete, for what it's worth, I believe you and I are a generation apart. At risk of pissing off my fellow millennials, I'll go so far as to suggest the reason you're getting strong pushback on lumping traditional fantasy football in with being a possible "defensive gambling addict" is because fantasy football really became a mainstay as the millenial generation was reaching adulthood.

I never used those words.

The biggest risk is to younger people, not your generation. And my generation was the one that started all this anyway.

[Pete]

To clarify this, both were founded as daily fantasy sports betting companies:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FanDuel

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DraftKings

Fan duel now offers some type of private daily full season fantasy football leagues while draftkings does not (at least not from what I can find), but neither offer traditional fantasy football like ESPN, Yahoo and similar apps.

And they did this because of the "fantasy sports is not gambling" loophole.

[PhiAlpha]

I just do not see the benefit to society of online sports gambling. How does sitting home alone on your phone and wagering into a void help anyone? And we know the big downsides and it's my opinion that many people don't see sports gambling like other forms of wagering, and thus there is a risk to a ton of people.

Also, putting millions on any outcome lends itself to corruption as we've already seen -- now that temptation will be infinitely higher.


I liked the fantasy leagues because it was about getting together with people at least 3x a year and the camaraderie between all of us. It also increased my interest in the sports in general. I think in the beginning we only put money in to pay the commissioner who had the terrible job of compiling all the data and taking the phone calls for the endless trades and roster moves.

Once it all went online it changed and I also know it changed the guys I was doing it with. All of them used to care about various sports teams and they will now readily admit cheering against 'their team' if it benefits their fantasy standing in some ways. That to me is spoiling the very essence of sports, so I no longer do any of this stuff.

One more comment on this…I think the rise of mass free agency has played a big roll in this among other things. A bunch of the 50-70 year old people I know who previously loved certain professional teams lost some interest since the 90s (unless you’re a patriots fan) regardless of whether they played fantasy football. It’s a lot easier to bail on your favorite team when it changes, possibly completely, every season and especially when you don’t have a local team keeping you invested. It’s beginning to have that effect on college sports as well though there’s still hope that NIL and the transfer portal can be reigned in.

[PhiAlpha]

And they did this because of the "fantasy sports is not gambling" loophole.

Hey it’s not our fault that the government created an overly broad definition of fantasy football or a narrow definition of gambling.

[Pete]

Hey it’s not our fault that the government created an overly broad definition of fantasy football or a narrow definition of gambling.

It's a breach of logic to suggest that the law validates what you prefer, then turn around and claim that the law is deeply flawed for something you don't.

[PhiAlpha]

It's a breach of logic to suggest that the law validates what you prefer, then turn around and claim that the law is deeply flawed for something you don't.

When did I suggest that the law validates what I prefer or even reference it in my argument prior to my last post?

[Pete]

When did I suggest that the law validates what I prefer or even reference it in my argument prior to my last post?

Apologies, I was probably conflating you with others who made that point.


Anyway, can anyone tell me the value to society of allowing online sports betting? This is the core issue as we as a state decide how and if to go forward.

[PhiAlpha]

Apologies, I was probably conflating you with others who made that point.


Anyway, can anyone tell me the value to society of allowing online sports betting? This is the core issue as we as a state decide how and if to go forward.

Aye! No worries!

[Bill Robertson]

I see both sides of the last couple pages conversations. On one hand I completely agree that giving people that are too easily addicted an easy opportunity to become addicted isn't fair to them. On the other hand denying others who aren't easily addicted the opportunity to drink, gamble, etc. is equally unfair to them. I don't see an easy answer.

[Pete]

I went to an event at Riverwind on Saturday night and had to walk through the casino to get to the right spot.

I really don't like casinos and absolutely abhor smoking (OMG the air was horrific), but at the same time I can see the appeal of going there with friends, having some fun, having a couple of drinks, and getting something to eat. In that context, the casino serves as entertainment just like going to the movies or anything else.

But online gambling? You remove all of that and are left with nothing but the distilled reality that a tiny percentage of players ever win, and the large majority of those give it back eventually. You just have some guy on his phone losing his arse. What is the point?

[Bill Robertson]

I went to an event at Riverwind on Saturday night and had to walk through the casino to get to the right spot.

I really don't like casinos and absolutely abhor smoking (OMG the air was horrific), but at the same time I can see the appeal of going there with friends, having some fun, having a couple of drinks, and getting something to eat. In that context, the casino serves as entertainment just like going to the movies or anything else.

But online gambling? You remove all of that and are left with nothing but the distilled reality that a tiny percentage of players ever win, and the large majority of those give it back eventually. You just have some guy on his phone losing his arse. What is the point?

I agree ABSOLUTELY with the former. I quit pool league and dart league largely because of smelling like smoke every night,
As to the latter. I know a number of friends, coworkers, etc. that do the versions of sports gambling that are available online and they have very lively, spirited discussions/debates/arguments about their bets/wins/losses. I wouldn't do it but I can see the social attraction.

[BoulderSooner]

But online gambling? You remove all of that and are left with nothing but the distilled reality that a tiny percentage of players ever win, and the large majority of those give it back eventually. You just have some guy on his phone losing his arse. What is the point?

you also just described online crypto trading and online daily stock trading ..

[Zuplar]

you also just described online crypto trading and online daily stock trading ..

So true. Speaking from unfortunate experience.

[FighttheGoodFight]

I talked about the advertisements earlier but all those commercials (and social media posts of "big hits" that are probably made up) make sports gambling appear more normal and something that everyone does. Sucks people in on how easy it is and I am sure many people get addicted. I personally don't like gambling and have no issue with others doing so I just think the "in your face" 24/7 ads and posts about it have gotten a lot of people into it. Including some younger people based on how easy it is to do.

[_Kyle]

I talked about the advertisements earlier but all those commercials (and social media posts of "big hits" that are probably made up) make sports gambling appear more normal and something that everyone does. Sucks people in on how easy it is and I am sure many people get addicted. I personally don't like gambling and have no issue with others doing so I just think the "in your face" 24/7 ads and posts about it have gotten a lot of people into it. Including some younger people based on how easy it is to do.

Exactly.
I don't believe I have stated this on this forum before, but I am the younger generation. I'm probably the youngest user on this site haha I am only 20.
People should have the ability to make their own choices when it comes to something like this. The same thing goes for smoking and drinking. But when it is something that serves as a major point of addiction for a large amount of the population, especially the sports demographic, you have to think about how constant in your face display of these things can affect them.

The games should stay being about the game, not the betting odds for said game. A few little banner ads on the goals or something aren't too abrasive, but major campaigns featuring well-known influential figures like Tom Brady, Kevin Hart, etc, and on-screen odds serve as a much stronger psychological call to action in my opinion.
I just hope that if this is legalized here in OK the ones involved in the process take this into consideration.