Bus Rapid Transit (BRT)

[Mississippi Blues]

I’m not sure if there’s any statistics but I recall Embark saying not long ago that it was their best performing route.

[Pete]

I've seen a bunch of people waiting at the stops -- more than I've ever seen at a regular bus stop.

[KayneMo]

Average ridership of 1,000 - 1,200 per day according to this VeloCity article.

[Jake]

Average ridership of 1,000 - 1,200 per day according to this VeloCity article.

Good deal. Hopefully the other two future routes will be successful as well.

[Jersey Boss]

Average ridership of 1,000 - 1,200 per day according to this VeloCity article.

I wonder if this number shows no loss in traditional routes or is at the expense of those routes.

[Teo9969]

I wonder if this number shows no loss in traditional routes or is at the expense of those routes.

I'd have to think that the 005 has been affected. Anyone travelling between Downtown and Classen/NWX would surely take the 200 (Rapid) instead of the 005.

I wonder if the 005 would be the first place you could try out a transfer. Have the 005 go down from the stops at 42nd or the stops in front of Valliance Tower up to Mercy. If you need to go from Mercy to downtown you just transfer from the 005 to the 200 or vice versa. If that is piloted and proves to be successful, I think we could begin finding ways to make our transit system more effective. This could also great hep us understand the value and needs of the next routes and how they need to be strategically mapped to encompass multiple routes.

[HOT ROD]

Busses aren't meant to be full every time they're on the road. Is your car full every time you drive?

People have the same take on the streetcar being a "failure" because they don't see it full of people. ..

[Rover]

Providing public transit to lower economic groups is kinda one of the primary purposes of public transit. Its not gender equity or preferred pronouns.

Here we go with the political crap again.

[TheTravellers]

Providing public transit to lower economic groups is kinda one of the primary purposes of public transit. Its not gender equity or preferred pronouns.

So what about the thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and ........ of "upper" economic groups that ride public transit in NYC, Chicago, Seattle, SF, etc.? Where do they fit into your absurd reasoning?

[Mississippi Blues]

So what about the thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and ........ of "upper" economic groups that ride public transit in NYC, Chicago, Seattle, SF, etc.? Where do they fit into your absurd reasoning?

I don’t think mug was implying public transit is only for lower economic classes. It goes without saying, anyone that takes public transit comes into the equation of how to best operate. You know this but for many in the lower economic classes, public transit might be the most viable or even only option, whereas many in higher economic categories can afford other methods without having the same level of financial burden but prefer the convenience public transportation offers in large cities. Acknowledging that it’s a benefit or necessity for one economic class more than another doesn’t disqualify the importance of any other group, nor does it qualify it as a method only for that most important group.

[okcrun]

People have the same take on the streetcar being a "failure" because they don't see it full of people. ..

The streetcar is a failure because it's so slow between the route/frequency it's often just as fast to walk between where you would otherwise be riding it

[mugofbeer]

Here we go with the political crap again.

Oh, stuff it Rover. My statement is one of experience using public transit for over 20 years and common sense. Outside the very largest metro areas where they have outstanding public transit, find a public transit system where ridership is dominated by middle and upper class (except, possibly, Seattle where the geography and demographics might skew the numbers).

I am also backed by the report Commuting by Public Transportation: 2019 that states ....... transit commuters tended to earn less than other workers. Outside of the seven transit-heavy metros, 44.4 percent of public transportation commuters earned less than $25,000 annually, compared to 31.3 percent of all other commuters.

[mugofbeer]

So what about the thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and ........ of "upper" economic groups that ride public transit in NYC, Chicago, Seattle, SF, etc.? Where do they fit into your absurd reasoning?

See my reply, above. I don't think OKC falls under the same urban classification as any of your examples so please show proof of where the study l cite and l am wrong.

[KayneMo]

The streetcar is a failure because it's so slow between the route/frequency it's often just as fast to walk between where you would otherwise be riding it

I keep seeing this and wonder, how fast do y'all walk?? I'm an avid walker and walk all the time from Midtown to Downtown and back, and sometimes Midtown to Bricktown and back, with the streetcar beating me.

[okcrun]

I keep seeing this and wonder, how fast do y'all walk?? I'm an avid walker and walk all the time from Midtown to Downtown and back, and sometimes Midtown to Bricktown and back, with the streetcar beating me.

Depends on where you are going obviously and how close you are to a stop. I lived at the Park Harvey for about 10 years which is between 2 stops and would generally go to Midtown or Bricktown.

Let's say I'm going to Fassler. It's a 3 minute walk to the library stop, 11 minutes on the streetcar and another 3 minute walk from the N Hudson stop so 15 minutes total. Walking there directly is 0.8 mi so 15-20 minutes. Keep in mind the streetcar being 15 minutes total is only if I get to the stop right as the streetcar is arriving. In this scenario it's not even worth trying to time it and just walk there directly which would take the same amount of time. If I can find a scooter nearby it's obviously going to be way faster. On the way back it makes more sense because there's a stop right outside Fassler and it's a straight shot to the Leadership station so would actually be worth taking in that scenario.

Going to Bricktown is similar. Going to Yucatan. 3 minute walk to Leadership station, 4 minutes on the streetcar to Mickey Mantle stop, 4 minute walk to Yucatan so 11 minutes. Walking there directly 0.6 mi so closer to 15 minutes. Again, unless I time it perfectly not even worth the difference. On the way back it's even worse because you have to loop south on the streetcar towards Scissortail and come back north on Hudson. Best case scenario is about 16 minutes total. Again might as well just walk.

The real killer is the frequency and the route potentially looping out of your way depending on where you are or needing to go. I would say in your scenario Midtown to Bricktown is far enough you are probably better off taking it. Anything around a mile or less walking is about the same or faster. If there was more frequency and the streetcar didn't have to stop at lights even with the current route it would be more competitive.

[KayneMo]

^Thanks for the response! I live 5 blocks north of the 11th & Hudson stop and, as you said, is best in my scenario to utilize the streetcar. I have taken it to every Thunder game I've been to this season, take it to see a movie in Bricktown, take it to meet friends, other events, etc. In other words, when I'm not walking for exercise, I rarely drive myself to downtown and Bricktown nowadays, and I highly value the streetcar for that.

[caaokc]

Do they have plans to expand the current route into Bricktown, etc?

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^
The Broadway and Main stop is one block from Bricktown. In a couple of locations a BRT stop is literally across the street from a streetcar stop. The point of this route is to be as direct and frequent as possible, and to link this route to facilities such as the transfer center and the street car. To be clear I am saying this as a Bricktown stakeholder: adding additional zones and stops to this route would defeat the purpose of it.

[HOT ROD]

Agreed. there are varios transit modes that need to be considered rather than expecting every route to be like a local bus with stops everywhere.

I will admit, the NW BRT does appear to be operating like a Bus Rapid Transit than just the bus system that OKC should be having as I was expecting. BRT has very infrequent stops, the least in fact outside of Commuter Bus. TBH, there isn't really any reason for the NW BRT to have stops more stops downtown other than the Transfer Center and perhaps next to Amtrak.

To me, you have the following levels of transit bus:

* ParaTransit and Shuttle bus: door-to-door service, primarily for elderly and dense locations (access wise)
* Local bus: frequent stops
* Express bus: less frequent stops, operates during peak and/or rush hour periods
* BRT: even less frequent stops, operates without a set schedule with more frequent headways during peak/rush hours
* Commuter bus: least frequent stops, operating long distances between nodes (typically downtown and suburb)

It would be most efficient for OKC to adopt such a service level, today we have three levels but we really need Commuter bus. I also think we should revise the current Express bus route, removing the circle towards the capital and just have it run from downtown transit center-to-Amtrak-to-Norman, passengers could transfer to local bus to complete the trip. This is most efficient and provides the best use of facilities. On that note, OKC should look at purchasing coach, articulated, and/or double height buses for the non-local routes and stick with the 40' and articulated for local routes.

[liirogue]

Has anyone else experienced some oddness caused by the traffic signal prioritization for the buses? I regularly go through the NW Expressway and Portland light. When a bus from north bound Portland turns left onto NW Expressway, the light then either skips the green for the traffic traveling straight on Portland, or is only green for 5-6 seconds.

[Mesta Parker]

Has anyone else experienced some oddness caused by the traffic signal prioritization for the buses? I regularly go through the NW Expressway and Portland light. When a bus from north bound Portland turns left onto NW Expressway, the light then either skips the green for the traffic traveling straight on Portland, or is only green for 5-6 seconds.

Have noticed the same thing at NW Expressway and Penn. The short cycle really backs up traffic on NW Expressway.