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  1. #1

    Default The Invasion From The South

    I wonder if this will still be an issue after Tuesday? Probably not until the next time trump needs to panic the easily panicked and those who will follow him right over the next cliff he says is a bridge.
    This, however, is likely to scare entire caravans back to their home countries no matter how much soros is paying them.
    Militia Groups Rushing to Border to Fight the Invasion of Evil Asylum Seeking Women and Children

  2. #2

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    The current caravan coming to the US isn't the first. Previous ones have resulted in at least some participants being allowed into the US. They have resulted in the Dreamers tag and the catastrophe of children and parents being torn apart - then, at least some being allowed into the country. Open borders advocates have generally been able to find a judge that forces the government to allow entry so l see no reason to think this caravan will be different.
    What is different here is the audacity of the real advocates within and in support of the caravan of this month is that they have refused multiple offers from Mexico to stay in Mexico. They have also already filed lawsuits against the administration saying their constitutional rights have been violated as though they are already in the country as refugees.
    I see this caravan as being a key moment in illegal immigration history because it is clear by their refusal to stay in Mexico, their intent is to invade this country. They aren't leaving their home countries because of violence or fear but simply to come to the US.
    According to government stats, the US has allowed more foreign immigrants during the Trump Administration than during Obama's at this same point. While less are being allowed from the south, more are being allowed in due to corporate sponsored immigration.
    The key, which l think Repubs have done a really lousy job of stressing, is being clear that except for the right-wing nuts, we are fine with large numbers of immigrants from most anywhere - as long as they are here legally. Caravans of advocate-sponsored people coming to invade the border, damn-the-US-laws, is around and should not be allowed. If this one is successful, dozens more will happen and we might as well just open the gates.
    Understand, l have absolutely no problem with immigration because, especially during this economic boom, we need immigrants to fill jobs and pay taxes. I just want it done LEGALLY. In this day and age of terrorism and Ebola and God knows what morphed virus will develop in the future, we must have controlled immigration. I want to see a reasonable immigration policy that allows for the government to vary the immigration numbers based on need from quarter to quarter. If it means allowing in great numbers based on our internal job needs, bring them on.

  3. #3

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond_Outsider View Post
    I wonder if this will still be an issue after Tuesday? Probably not until the next time trump needs to panic the easily panicked and those who will follow him right over the next cliff he says is a bridge.
    This, however, is likely to scare entire caravans back to their home countries no matter how much soros is paying them.
    Militia Groups Rushing to Border to Fight the Invasion of Evil Asylum Seeking Women and Children
    Of course these people are not needed and should/will be sent home once the media has adequately been portrayed them as Trump supporters, NRA Members and right-wing mainstream.

  4. #4

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Post election it will be obvious to those not hard cult members that the emperor has no clothes on

  5. #5

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    I suppose you think the election is really going to change the way anyone looks at this subject? The election won't do anything. There will be actions taken if there is a Dem sweep and there will be court rulings that will go to the SCOTUS.

  6. #6

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Wong Kim Ark. 14 th amendment. Liar in Chief can't amend constitution.

  7. #7

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    Wong Kim Ark. 14 th amendment. Liar in Chief can't amend constitution.
    Did you mean this on this thread?

  8. #8

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    I took from your comment about SCOTUS you were referencing birthright citizenship. What are you talking about if not this?

  9. #9

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Not birthright citizenship but l am referring to the caravan on its way to the border. That's what EOs original post was about.
    No, l dont agree with Trumps birthright citizenship position or that he can do anything about it. I do have a problem if the immigrant comes here pregnant then uses that as the gateway to entry.

  10. #10

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    What actions and subsequent rulings that relate to the so called caravan are you commenting on?

  11. #11

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    I've always wondered how this was possible considering if they really do come illegally, no papers, no port of entry, etc, then they are still under the jurisdiction of their home county, therefore any offspring would not be a citizen. The illegal has not in any way relinquished allegiance to their home country, therefore the country still has a claim on that child's citizenship status as well at that point.

  12. #12

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Not true. If a illegal commits a felony they go to prison here. What laws are illegals not subject to if here? Now those people here on diplomatic passports are the only ones I can think of not subject to the jurisdiction and laws of this country. Legal residents do not disavow their allegiance to their country of birth either. Subject to our laws? Damn right.

  13. #13

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    Not true. If a illegal commits a felony they go to prison here. What laws are illegals not subject to if here? Now those people here on diplomatic passports are the only ones I can think of not subject to the jurisdiction and laws of this country. Legal residents do not disavow their allegiance to their country of birth either. Subject to our laws? Damn right.
    People here legally can at the same time be under their home countries jurisdiction, and treated equally under our laws. Doesn't make them a citizen. I just don't see the distinction here.

  14. #14

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    The author of the amendment even made clear he never intended this sort of thing.

    I might add that I don't think Trump can just change , however I also don't believe the 14th compels this practice either. I only think he can't because it's not his jurisdiction, it's congress'. And Congress I believe could change the practice without an amendment to the constitution.

  15. #15

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Ironically, I heard someone tell me something to the effect that it was impossible to argue that there is a right for one's birth to carry any particular significance without conceding everyone has the right to be born in the first place.

  16. #16

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    I believe the constitution uses words to the effect of anyone "in the country", so once the illegal is in the country, they are covered by our laws and rights. This is why it is to the advantage of the pregnant illegal female to simply step into US territory to have the baby. This is what Trump thinks he can stop, but can't. The lawsuit filed on behalf of people in the caravan is trying to expand that to people who "intend" to be in the country. Finally, unless l am mistake, to become a citizen of the US, one must renounce citizenship and allegiance to any other country. This is why l think a couple of issues from this particular attempt for a mass intrusion into the US will have far reaching effects.

  17. #17

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    At the end of the day, everyone in this country is subject to the laws and jurisdiction of this country. Only exception is diplomats.

  18. #18

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Another viewpoint...

    There are some important things to consider about the caravan of asylum seekers coming to the US border. I am sharing these thoughts as an immigration lawyer who has practiced asylum law for ten years.

    1. Ever since our failure to protect Jews during the Holocaust, the United States has righted that failure by recognizing its obligation to protect individuals fleeing persecution in their own countries. We have signed international treaties and written our own internal laws honoring this responsibility. Our asylum laws require that an individual be in the United States in order to apply for asylum (see 8 USC 1158). These people are not coming here illegally. They are following what our law requires to seek asylum in the United States.

    2. We have a process for asylum seekers: they are placed in detention and processed through a credible fear interview process with an asylum officer. In this interview, they discuss what happened to them in their home country and an asylum officer decides whether they are likely to qualify for asylum in front of a judge.

    3. If the applicant fails the initial interview, they have one appeal and then get deported if not successful. This whole process takes a few weeks. This year, we average about 7,000 credible fear interviews per month. (See USCIS’s credible fear statistics, available online). If they pass, they go into removal proceedings and begin to prepare for their final asylum hearing. In 2017, judges heard 30,179 cases and denied 61% of those cases. (See TRAC immigration figures). So only a fraction of the individuals in the caravan would ultimately be permitted to stay in the United States.

    4. The caravan of asylum seekers come from Honduras, which has the highest crime rate on the planet. They are families fleeing violence, with children as young as infants on the journey. The criminals and gang members stay in Honduras, where they are powerful and commit crime with impunity. The asylum seekers are coming together fleeing those gang members. They come in a caravan because there is safety in numbers.

    5. The asylum seekers are walking across Central America with their children and some belongings, without bathroom facilities, kitchens, or a place to sleep. Imagine what it would take for you to grab your children, leave your home, and walk to Canada. How bad would things have to be for you?

    6. Now, imagine your neighbor’s house was on fire and he came to your door with his family. What would you do?

    These people are our neighbors and they are in danger. It is our moral and legal obligation to allow them the right to apply for asylum. The numbers are not that high, in fact this group represents the same amount of asylum interviews we typically process in one month. We have a system in place that will not be overwhelmed by this group.

    In 50 years our children and grandchildren will look back on this time and ask how we responded. In the same way that we are curious about how our parents behaved during the Civil Rights eras for people of color, women, and LGBTQ people, our kids will look to us to see which side we joined in the immigration debate. Be on the right side of justice.

    https://lincolngoldfinch.com/my-thou...U_0_X5eQ7vuMUw

  19. #19

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    I appreciate what you say and appreciate your description of the laws.
    while l am not unfeeling to the plight of those from violent countries, when the caravaners (I'll call them since they are not yet here) turned down offers from Mexico to be able to stay there, and when a lawsuit was filed claiming a violation of their rights to due process (they are not in the US AND THEY ARE NOT US citizens, so US law does not apply to them) tells me they are not seeking asylum -in which case they would have stopped in Mexico - but simply want entry to the US. The lawsuit was filed by only a few migrants but covers them all.
    Compassion or not, the US cannot accept the entire populations of these countries. What we need is an immigration reform compromise done on a bi-partisan basis with clear rules on handling illegal entry to the US. I welcome large numbers of immigrants, just legally and not by activist-sponsored migrant caravans.

  20. #20

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Couple of questions.

    Assuming that these asylum seekers came from Honduras, and I assume they walked the entire way. That means they will have walked through Guatemala and Mexico to get here.

    1. Do either Guatemala or Mexico abide by the same conventions we do, by providing asylum?

    2. Do our laws say anything about this phenomenon of literally bypassing countries when seeking asylum?

    3. How do we get proof they are actually seeking asylum and not just making a choice to migrate?

    4. Do we accept asylum seekers from all countries or just selected ones where we have decided asylum seeking would be prevalent (which I could totally imagine Honduras falling into that category)?

  21. #21

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    I hope they all gain entry, go straight to the White House, and curb stomp Trump into oblivion.

  22. #22

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    Another viewpoint...

    [INDENT]

    6. Now, imagine your neighbor’s house was on fire and he came to your door with his family. What would you do?

    These people are our neighbors and they are in danger. It is our moral and legal obligation to allow them the right to [INDENT]

    https://lincolngoldfinch.com/my-thou...U_0_X5eQ7vuMUw
    I would tell my republican neighbor as he's standing at my door freezing and having just lost everything that 'Gee, I would love to shelter you, but since you vote against the interests of human beings, you can just go ahead and be homeless tonight!' And I would delight in doing it. My democrat neighbors are always welcome. Karma is a bitch.

  23. #23

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Drake View Post
    I hope they all gain entry, go straight to the White House, and curb stomp Trump into oblivion.
    While you’re at it, you might as well curb stomp the lying hypocrite Obama too...


    ‘’If you assumed this abuse happened during the Trump administration, think again. Jahveel was threatened in 2009 by President Obama’s Border Patrol, and her treatment was not an isolated incident. Her case is part of a pattern of physical, sexual, and emotional abuse by Customs and Border Protection officials against child immigrants that existed long before President Trump emboldened the agency by unleashing its officers to enforce his draconian immigration policies.

    We have received more than 30,000 pages of internal government documents detailing this abuse between 2009 and 2014 throughout the southern border region. These records, obtained through an ACLU Freedom of Information Act request and subsequent litigation, offer a glimpse into an immigration enforcement system that had been plagued by brutality and lawlessness long before Trump was elected.‘’

    https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants...-obama-imagine

  24. #24

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Drake View Post
    I hope they all gain entry, go straight to the White House, and curb stomp Trump into oblivion.

  25. #25

    Default Re: The Invasion From The South

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Drake View Post
    I would tell my republican neighbor as he's standing at my door freezing and having just lost everything that 'Gee, I would love to shelter you, but since you vote against the interests of human beings, you can just go ahead and be homeless tonight!' And I would delight in doing it. My democrat neighbors are always welcome. Karma is a bitch.
    May I ask, how many of the invaders are you taking into your house? 1? 5? 10?

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