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Thread: Ideas 4 MAPS

  1. #1

    Default Ideas 4 MAPS

    From Mayor Holt on Twitter: https://twitter.com/davidfholt/statu...08576982880257

    It is time to talk about MAPS 4. It is time to dream big again. Watch the video below and then submit your ideas at http://OKC.gov/Ideas4MAPS to help write the next chapter in our city’s history! #Ideas4MAPS #1OKC

  2. #2

    Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    easy... massive expansion of streetcar and commuter rail.

  3. Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    I'm all for just about anything but a MLS type stadium. Should not put that kind of stadium on taxpayers dime for a potential bid for a league that is in the lower tier of it's profession (MLS). And especially not for a USL team. The MLS structure is a sham and I think we should stay away from it.

  4. Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    Quote Originally Posted by jedicurt View Post
    easy... massive expansion of streetcar and commuter rail.
    That will come with the Regional Transit Authority, which is very close to being formally established.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    Press release:

    Oklahoma City invites ‘Ideas 4 MAPS’

    Mayor David Holt and the City Council are inviting the people of Oklahoma City to submit ideas for a potential MAPS 4 and help write a new chapter in OKC’s transformative temporary one-cent sales tax program.

    “As we consider how best to continue investing in our future, we want to have an inclusive conversation, and we want every voice to be heard,” said Mayor Holt. “It is time to talk about MAPS 4. It is time to dream big again.”

    Submit your ideas in one of three ways:

    On ideas4maps.com.
    On social media using the hashtag #ideas4maps.
    Mail a letter to Mayor David Holt, Attn: MAPS 4, 200 N Walker Ave. 3rd floor, Oklahoma City, OK 73102.

    As you develop your thoughts, think about transformational ideas that will propel our City forward. Be as specific as possible.

    “MAPS has changed our city forever, and we have the opportunity, perhaps even the obligation, to continue building a city that our kids will want to call home,” said Mayor Holt. “We have the opportunity to continue our city’s momentum and ensure that it is felt by all. And because of the powerful idea called MAPS, we can do it without raising taxes.”

    Watch Mayor Holt’s kickoff video at ideas4maps.com for more guidance, background and inspiration.

    About MAPS
    The Better Streets, Safer City temporary one-cent sales tax that is helping to fund nearly $800 million in street repairs expires at the end of March 2020. To adopt a potential MAPS 4 plan and not increase Oklahoma City’s sales tax rate, voters would have to consider a package in late 2019.

    A new MAPS program would leave the current Oklahoma City sales tax rate of 4.125 percent unchanged. Including state sales tax, the overall sales tax rate in most of OKC is 8.625 percent (8.975 percent in Canadian County and 8.875 percent in Cleveland County because of county sales taxes).

    The genesis of MAPS began in the late 1980s, when civic leaders were jolted by an airline’s choice of another city for a maintenance hub because its employees didn’t want to live in Oklahoma City. In response, residents chose to make OKC a better place to live.

    The original MAPS vote in December 1993 funded the Chickasaw Bricktown Ballpark, Bricktown Canal, Cox Convention Center, Chesapeake Energy Arena, Civic Center Music Hall, improvements to State Fair Park, the Ronald J. Norick Downtown Library, the Oklahoma River and Oklahoma Spirit Trolleys. It ultimately raised $309 million, plus an extra $54 million in interest also used to fund construction. The original MAPS also had a use tax, which was deposited into a maintenance fund for the projects.

    The MAPS for Kids vote in 2001 funded improvements to every public school serving students from Oklahoma City, including 70 new or renovated school buildings. Of the $700 million raised by the program, about $470 million was used for construction projects, $52 million for technology projects, $9 million for bus fleet replacement and $153 million for projects in 23 suburban districts serving OKC students. The MAPS for KIDS use tax funded public safety vehicle replacement.

    Every MAPS 3 project is either already finished or is under construction. Voters approved it in 2009. MAPS 3 raised about $805 million, well above the anticipated $777 million because of Oklahoma City’s strong economy. Its projects are Scissortail Park, RIVERSPORT Rapids and other Oklahoma River improvements, the Bennett Event Center at State Fair park, the OKC Streetcar, Senior Health & Wellness Centers, the new Convention Center, trails and sidewalks. The MAPS 3 use tax, like the MAPS for Kids use tax, funded public safety vehicle replacement.

    MAPS 3 sales tax collections ended Dec. 31, 2017, with the current Better Streets, Safer City temporary one-cent sales tax taking effect the next day.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    “We have the opportunity to continue our city’s momentum and ensure that it is felt by all. And because of the powerful idea called MAPS, we can do it without raising taxes.”
    MAPS is a sales tax increase. This is a disengenuous statement at best and a complete falsehood at worst.

  7. Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    ^this. Much like this and bond issues for schools and such, this language is deceiving. What they don't tell you that if it doesn't pass, taxes will go DOWN.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    MAPS is a sales tax increase. This is a disengenuous statement at best and a complete falsehood at worst.
    I thought the same thing.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    MAPS is a sales tax increase. This is a disengenuous statement at best and a complete falsehood at worst.
    Would it be more of a continuation of a currently in place tax, or a brand new one, to piggy back on the MAPS 3 tax increase? That may be what they meant. May be wrong, though.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    It bothers me greatly that the new mayor would make such an erroneous claim. It's not like he doesn't know how these projects are funded.

    We all pay for them out of our pockets. I'm in the process of trying to move offices of the Gazette and we are going to pay a ton in sales tax. That $.01 becomes a large number over a period of time or when you make some big purchases. I'll have to go back and caculate how much that has impacted the bottom line at the Gazette for the MAPS programs. It's in the thousands and perhaps tens of thousands.

    Not saying that MAPS isn't worth it, just that I can't believe the city would try and claim it is not a tax increase.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    If voted in, Maps 4 would not raise taxes. Taxes are already raised so if Maps 4 fails taxes go down. I don't think they are being disingenuous but certainly not telling the whole truth. Hope it passes regardless.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    MAPS is a sales tax increase. This is a disengenuous statement at best and a complete falsehood at worst.
    If maps4 passes will the tax rate A. Increase? B decrease? Or C stay exactly the same ?

  13. #13

    Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    Semantics and word games that are intentionally very misleading.

    MAPS is a sales tax increase, period... Which is exactly why it requires a vote of the people.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    The claim is a fact. Maps 4 yes vote would not raise the tax rate from the current rate in any way

  15. #15

    Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
    The claim is a fact. Maps 4 yes vote would not raise the tax rate from the current rate in any way
    Complete word games and an intentional manipulation.

    The current $.01 sales tax is set to expire. That is why a new vote is required.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    Which everyone understands. A no vote would reduce taxes. A yes vote keeps the tax rate the same


    We likely will have a rta tax vote in the next 2 years also. That vote would be to raise the overall tax rate

  17. #17

    Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
    Which everyone understands. A no vote would reduce taxes. A yes vote keeps the tax rate the same
    Actually, without a vote taxes would not go up.

    So, it's a vote to raise taxes. Period.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    You are the one using word games. A yes vote makes the current tax rate do what ??? Up down or the same ? Simple ?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
    You are the one using word games. A yes vote makes the current tax rate do what ??? Up down or the same ? Simple ?
    This is silly argument and we've both made our points.

    I would hope the leader of our city would have more sense.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    This the exact wording on the ballot for MAPS 3:


  21. #21

    Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    Moving on thing I would like to see on the agenda. And 2 things that might be added

    1. Transit. Street car extension to both capital hill and up classen to 63rd. Heavy rail from the adventure district with stops on the east side. Through the sante fe station then on to the airport (getting at least adjacent to the car rental facility)

    Would love a downtown aquarium

    2. Thing that may show up Capping 235 (Lot of money little benifit).

    State fair arena. (This seems like a lock)

  22. #22

    Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    The fair arena and I-235 cap are darlings of the chamber and since they are the ones that promote MAPS, you can bet both will be featured prominently.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    BTW, I hope the city plans to share the input as to what citizens most want to see.

    People may remember that the chamber conducted a private poll about the popularity of MAPS 3 projects and then refused to share that data.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    I made my submission. I’d like to see beautification projects city wide, more sidewalks, and further expansion of the streetcar and rail to the airport.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Ideas 4 MAPS

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I would hope the leader of our city would have more sense.
    The preceding sentence from Holt's original quote - "We have the opportunity to continue our city’s momentum and ensure that it is felt by all" - provided a pretty sizable context clue as to what Holt meant by the sentence at issue. While of course you are technically correct, I suspect virtually every press release since MAPS for Kids has used some form of the argument that "taxes won't increase from rates under the previous MAPS if you vote yes" and maybe I'm an optimist but I suspect the population of people that didn't understand what Holt meant is pretty small, so calling out Holt's competence seems like a bit of a low blow.

    Moving on....I'm excited to see the proposals and hope MAPS continues to be used for its original purpose (large scale capital-intensive quality of life/redevelopment projects) and not for projects that should (in an ideal world) be completed through regular tax collections (street maintenance, etc.), which seem to have gained momentum as possible MAPS projects over the last couple of years.

    Highest on my list is streetcar expansion and some sort of master plan for redevelopment of the Cox Convention Center site (still trying to formulate ideas of what this could look like but I think there's an opportunity for the city to spur development of something special on this site and I believe the city has an obligation to the people to ensure whatever development happens to replace the Cox center is completed responsibly). I would also like to see continued development of the riverfront to ensure it's a destination all the people of OKC can enjoy long into the future.
    Last edited by Timshel; 10-11-2018 at 02:58 PM. Reason: clarification

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