Why stay in Oklahoma?

[corwin1968]

Dan, clean out your private message inbox and I'll shoot you a message. I'm well aware of what IEP's are, but in Oklahoma they are only required on the lower end.

As a person who works in special education in Oklahoma, I would be interested in hearing your experiences, as well.

[bradh]

As a person who works in special education in Oklahoma, I would be interested in hearing your experiences, as well.

Sent, and to clear this up, I mixed up two different topics in my earlier post. Those families with kids who have special education needs are leaving the state because of medicare/health department issues, not the special education. That was my bad for mixing up the two.

[bombermwc]

I would disagree with a lot of the "end of the world" statements being made here. I'm a product of Oklahoma public education, and i had a good experience. We're still complaining about the same issues the teachers complained about when i was a kid....pay and budget. I dont think that will ever go away and we continue to pile more responsibilities on the teacher with the parents wanting to take less and less responsibility themselves for their "precious angels".

While i haven't lived in other states, i have family in several and some of my employees do live in other states, so i get a chance to throw questions to those folks. Let me tell you, we're far from the oddity in the U.S. in all of the issues listed above. There really is no "greener grass" across the state line, the problems are just different. Even in TX, where everyone LOVES to say things are so much better, teachers and staff dont get raises either. Their tax structure is totally different, but last time i checked, they still had under performing districts, budget issues, etc. as well. Don't think for a second that the TX legislature doesn't hear the same complaints ours does. They're cutting money to activities just like any other state. Heck, even in Austin schools right there next to the capital, band is a good example of funding being almost totally gone. There was a good piece on a HS Band discussing this very thing and the "creative" ways they have to use to make up for the state not funding them well enough....like paying for bus gas to go to games/contests.

Besides all that, funding isn't the end-all solution. Throwing money at a problem doesn't magically make it better. Look to Mississippi for an example. It has one of the lowest per-student spending rates in the region...no surprise. But some of the small towns have fought against that and exceed the state average by double digits. However, the economy in those towns is still terrible. I'll have to dig, but there's a good story on that out there in the interwebs...... So the question would be what did you get for that extra spending? In these towns, the students aren't leaving town, there just isn't a good economy for a good job after. So remember that education is only one piece to the puzzle of what the GOAL of education is. If you got a good education from school, but the only job you can get is minimum wage, was it worth it?

Our economy in OK is more diverse than it once was, but dont kid yourself, we are still an energy economy. If you don't think that's true, just look at the job loss after gas prices tanked. Its not just oil, its oil service, midstream, drilling, transport, etc. But i think you'd be surprised at HOW diverse its become compared to where it WAS. There's plenty of health there, but the politics on how things are taxed is keeping us from realizing some of those benefits.

And politics are screwed up all over the country, especially at the top.

I 10000% agree with the statement said above that you'll only get out of it, what you put in. So if you move to a 'burb and think that your kid's got a free ride to a full ride scholarship, you're kidding yourself. It takes work no matter what district you're in, no matter what state you're in. YOU, as the parent, are what is going to help decide what the outcome is going to be. It's not always fun, in fact a lot of the time it isn't. But being a parent isn't about just having fun. Again, what's the end goal here? Sometimes i wanna scream when im doing homework with my kids, but it pays off.

[bchris02]

In terms of living elsewhere, I would say it's definitely a good experience and can really give a person perspective, even if its just temporary and they eventually move back. Living in another city/state is a lot different than something like spending a weekend in Dallas or a week in California. When it comes to the "grass is greener" mentality, everywhere has its problems but those problems are different. Some people may not be cut out for the hectic, fast pace life of major cities like Los Angeles or New York. Others might love it. Spending some time away from Oklahoma can help a person get that perspective. A lot of people move away and then move back. Some do not. It comes down to what a person values and what problems they can tolerate vs what they cannot.

Besides all that, funding isn't the end-all solution. Throwing money at a problem doesn't magically make it better. Look to Mississippi for an example. It has one of the lowest per-student spending rates in the region...no surprise. But some of the small towns have fought against that and exceed the state average by double digits. However, the economy in those towns is still terrible. I'll have to dig, but there's a good story on that out there in the interwebs...... So the question would be what did you get for that extra spending? In these towns, the students aren't leaving town, there just isn't a good economy for a good job after. So remember that education is only one piece to the puzzle of what the GOAL of education is. If you got a good education from school, but the only job you can get is minimum wage, was it worth it?

One thing that hurts Mississippi is that other than the gulf coastal area heavily reliant on tourism, it doesn't really have any major economic centers. Much of the state is within the Mississippi river delta region which is one of the poorest areas of the country. Brain drain is a huge problem there, especially with cities like Memphis, New Orleans, and Birmingham pretty much right on Mississippi's doorstep. Mississippi doesn't have any major cities of its own. Oklahoma has some of this with DFW being such a powerhouse, but I would say OKC and Tulsa hold their own economically much better than Jackson does and are more of a draw.

And politics are screwed up all over the country, especially at the top.

I started a thread on this in the politics subforum, but one of the most frustrating thing to me about Oklahoma is the religious authoritarianism. Oklahoma politics have actually pushed me away from religion. Most of the problems with issues like the budget and education can be tied back to this very problem. While this is a problem across the Bible Belt, it stands out in Oklahoma simply because the state is so red, even in the cities. Social change typically doesn't come to Oklahoma until decades after the rest of the country has moved on, unless mandated by the federal government like same-sex marriage was. Nearly all progressive political capital here (what little there is) has to go into fighting religiously-motivated reactionary legislation.

I want to say that I have nothing against religious people or people practicing their faith. However, it's exhausting that fundamentalist Christianity plays such a prominent role in politics in this state. To be fair, a lot of this is caused by voter apathy among younger voters and straight-ticket voting. Still, I often find myself wishing I lived somewhere a little more libertarian.

[Scott5114]

I started a thread on this in the politics subforum, but one of the most frustrating thing to me about Oklahoma is the religious authoritarianism. Oklahoma politics have actually pushed me away from religion. Most of the problems with issues like the budget and education can be tied back to this very problem. While this is a problem across the Bible Belt, it stands out in Oklahoma simply because the state is so red, even in the cities. Social change typically doesn't come to Oklahoma until decades after the rest of the country has moved on, unless mandated by the federal government like same-sex marriage was. Nearly all progressive political capital here (what little there is) has to go into fighting religiously-motivated reactionary legislation.

I want to say that I have nothing against religious people or people practicing their faith. However, it's exhausting that fundamentalist Christianity plays such a prominent role in politics in this state. To be fair, a lot of this is caused by voter apathy among younger voters and straight-ticket voting. Still, I often find myself wishing I lived somewhere a little more libertarian.

Agreed. I'd add that I think that having a more-or-less political monopoly in Oklahoma is doing us a disservice. We have the same old problems year after year because other ideologies and fresh ways of thinking about the problem can't break into the Legislature. I'm not asking for Oklahoma to become a west-coast blue state, but I'd like there to at least be some competing voices to moderate the debate and present an alternative to just cutting everything ad nauseum as a panacea.

The religious political culture definitely puts a dampener on that because it establishes religion as almost a pre-requisite for running. I would very much like to run for office and see if I could help tackle our state's problems, but one thing that holds me back is that I'm not religious, and if my opponent decided to try to campaign on out-religioning me, they'd probably win. I think that's probably the case for a lot of potential candidates, and so we're probably missing good leadership we didn't know we had because they simply don't want to fight against that environment.

I'm hoping that in the long run the investments we've made in the city will draw people to move here, and we'll see a healthy mix of viewpoints in the future. That hope is what keeps me sticking it out here in Oklahoma instead of fleeing to another state.

[Bunty]

Lack of Industrial diversity: The oil and gas industry is strong here. If you are working in the industry, you are doing very well. We also have Tinker, which is huge. Other than that, it seems like everything else is small potatoes. We tried to bring in Amazon, but it was almost a cruel joke comparing our state/cities with the others on the list. What future does this state have when the oil/gas industry disappear in the next generation or so?

Flailing Infrastructure: Our roads are a joke. Public transportation is very limited. It seems like our strategy for improving our roads is non-existent. Just keep patching the old patches and kick the can down the road.

Oklahoma's economy has diversified some from oil. During the oil depression of the early 1980s the state unemployment rate peaked out at nearly 9%. With the most recent oil depression, unemployment rate briefly got up to 5%.

While I don't drive over much of the state, I do find the highways from Stillwater to Tulsa and Oklahoma City to be in generally good shape. An exception to that is that short stretch from the Highway 18/51 junction east to Yale. There it meets your definition of "Just keep patching the old patches and kick the can down the road." Anyway, the highways that run through the metros are bound to be in poorer condition from having much more traffic. They should be taken care of better.

Being complacent about Oklahoma's problems, because other states also have problems isn't helpful. Oklahoma's problems are extra bad. OSU president Burns Hargis complains about Oklahoma being at or near no. 1 on lists of things that are bad. One problem Hargis is dealing with is the decline of students at OSU. It's probably a symptom of Oklahoma's problems.

[bchris02]

Agreed. I'd add that I think that having a more-or-less political monopoly in Oklahoma is doing us a disservice. We have the same old problems year after year because other ideologies and fresh ways of thinking about the problem can't break into the Legislature. I'm not asking for Oklahoma to become a west-coast blue state, but I'd like there to at least be some competing voices to moderate the debate and present an alternative to just cutting everything ad nauseum as a panacea.

The religious political culture definitely puts a dampener on that because it establishes religion as almost a pre-requisite for running. I would very much like to run for office and see if I could help tackle our state's problems, but one thing that holds me back is that I'm not religious, and if my opponent decided to try to campaign on out-religioning me, they'd probably win. I think that's probably the case for a lot of potential candidates, and so we're probably missing good leadership we didn't know we had because they simply don't want to fight against that environment.

I'm hoping that in the long run the investments we've made in the city will draw people to move here, and we'll see a healthy mix of viewpoints in the future. That hope is what keeps me sticking it out here in Oklahoma instead of fleeing to another state.

I agree with this completely and it's unfortunate. Elections in this state almost come down to who can out-Jesus their opponent. Religious conservatives will almost always vote primarily based on religious wedge issues like abortion and LGBT rights and the state lawmakers know this. They can pretty much do whatever they want as long as they maintain an anti-choice and anti-gay platform. Unfortunately, I think it's going to be a generation before there is any hope of change on this front. People aren't moving here at fast enough rates, especially from blue states, to really have an effect at moderating the politics. Younger people, even those of faith, are rejecting the Moral Majority culture but they aren't the majority of people in this state who vote. If it wasn't for various things currently preventing me from leaving Oklahoma, I doubt I would want to stick around to wait for things to change.

One thing is that Oklahoma is a very low-turnout state. I wonder how the state political map would look with increased turnout and also if straight-ticket voting was eliminated. There is a reason the medical marijuana initiative was moved to June. Republican lawmakers are worried about that state question driving progressive-minded people to the polls who wouldn't otherwise vote.

[MadMonk]

This is a good question.

I moved back to Oklahoma from Charlotte NC in 2012 and I didn't really want to. However, I was working in a dead-end job in Charlotte, the recession was dragging on, and the economy here was much better. The biggest reason is that my family was pressuring me to move back to this part of the country. While I lived in OKC as a child and a teenager, I had not lived here as an adult and had been away for 10 years so in many ways I was like a transplant in my (sort of) hometown. It was a rough adjustment initially, but not all of that was Oklahoma's fault (I was dealing with some serious personal issues around that time as well).

That's interesting. I spent many years in and around the Charlotte/Mecklenburg county area. I hated nearly everything about it, especially those awful humid summers. About the only redeeming factor was that you had both mountainous areas and beach areas all within a pretty reasonable driving distance. You have to drive a bit further in Oklahoma to get to those kind of places.

I've been back a few times since I left because I still have family there, but each visit reaffirms my determination to never live in that area again.

[BG918]

I will say that Oklahoma has some very good private schools for kids, likely because of the general lack of funding for public schools. Some people I know moved to OK from more expensive states and used part of the money they used to spend on housing for private education for their kids. I'm not saying that's what everyone should do and increasing funding is an absolute necessity (which I hope gets accomplished this legislative session) but there are other good options out there if that is your main sticking point.

As far as universities go OU has made huge strides and is a well-respected public university, considered to be in the Top 50 in the U.S. OSU is also respected for many of its programs and TU is one of the best private colleges in the region. Certainly lots of room for improvement but compared to other states with similar populations we have a pretty good higher education system with a growing number of graduate and research opportunities.

[bchris02]

That's interesting. I spent many years in and around the Charlotte/Mecklenburg county area. I hated nearly everything about it, especially those awful humid summers. About the only redeeming factor was that you had both mountainous areas and beach areas all within a pretty reasonable driving distance. You have to drive a bit further in Oklahoma to get to those kind of places.

I've been back a few times since I left because I still have family there, but each visit reaffirms my determination to never live in that area again.

Interesting that you disliked that area. I absolutely loved it out there and still miss it even though I haven't been back in almost six years now. I actually almost bought a house, not knowing that literally a year later I would be moving back to Oklahoma (something I told myself at the time that I would never do). I agree that the summers can be brutal (though I actually think the dry Oklahoma summers are worse) but the springs and falls are especially nice out there. I miss not really having to worry about tornadoes. I miss the greenery and general lushness of the region and the tree-lined streets. The only place in central Oklahoma that looks anything like it is the Heritage Hills neighborhood.

[stlokc]

Interesting that you disliked that area. I absolutely loved it out there and still miss it even though I haven't been back in almost six years now. I actually almost bought a house, not knowing that literally a year later I would be moving back to Oklahoma (something I told myself at the time that I would never do). I agree that the summers can be brutal (though I actually think the dry Oklahoma summers are worse) but the springs and falls are especially nice out there. I miss not really having to worry about tornadoes. I miss the greenery and general lushness of the region and the tree-lined streets. The only place in central Oklahoma that looks anything like it is the Heritage Hills neighborhood.

While it wouldn't be a reason for me to move or not move anywhere, you're not wrong about the "lushness" and "greenery" in Charlotte and in most places east of OKC. I've never understood why OKC neighborhoods and other districts don't insist on robust tree planting when they develop. It's not going to look like Charlotte overnight, but trees do grow in Central Oklahoma. I looked recently at an aerial photo of that area where they are building the Aloft south of Quail Springs Mall and I thought "If they had lined that boulevard (the one that circles around from Memorial to Penn) with trees when they built it in the 1980s, and maybe put them in the median as well, it would look so beautiful now and I would bet it would have developed long before now." Same thing with the bridge supports on the highways and even landscaping of shopping centers, etc. OKC doesn't have a lot of hills and the section line roads being ramrod-straight are awfully boring, but there are things that can be done to make the city look nicer.

[tfvc.org]

I was born and raised in Denver, stayed until my early 20s have lived in Lexington/Norman off and on throughout the years and lived in St Pete for almost 10. Denver's roads are bad because of the salt/brine they put on them every winter, Oklahoma has started doing this but even before they did this the roads have been bad and in disrepair, and I think that is mostly because of the have to pay for it upfront law that the state has implemented. I do want to move out of the state, but mostly because I don't do well with the cold, and miss Florida's warmer winters and being close to the beach and water. I do miss the mountains in Denver though, and if I had it my way I would move to Spain where I could have the best of both worlds, warm temperate climate, warm water, beaches, and pretty mountains to explore. I have always been told by people that this state is usually 7-20 years behind the rest of the country, and in a lot of ways it is, but with the internet in a lot of ways this gap has closed in. As an example I have been a vegan since I was 22 and when I lived here in the late 90s there wasn't much choice and had to explain what a vegan was too many times to wait staff. Luckily stores like Dodsons and that now defunct grocery store on 12th and E Lindsay. Now we have 4? natural grocery chains all over the metro, 2-3 fully vegan restaurants and a lot of menus caters to my kind, in beef country. I think that OKC really needs to start bringing in more entertainment, I am tired of having to drive to Dallas or Tulsa to see a show, (I like that industrial music) and there are fewer places to see one than in the 90s. The main reason why I am back here is because my dad talked me into moving back, and I regretted moving within a month of being here, and here I am 7 years later.

[bchris02]

While it wouldn't be a reason for me to move or not move anywhere, you're not wrong about the "lushness" and "greenery" in Charlotte and in most places east of OKC. I've never understood why OKC neighborhoods and other districts don't insist on robust tree planting when they develop. It's not going to look like Charlotte overnight, but trees do grow in Central Oklahoma. I looked recently at an aerial photo of that area where they are building the Aloft south of Quail Springs Mall and I thought "If they had lined that boulevard (the one that circles around from Memorial to Penn) with trees when they built it in the 1980s, and maybe put them in the median as well, it would look so beautiful now and I would bet it would have developed long before now." Same thing with the bridge supports on the highways and even landscaping of shopping centers, etc. OKC doesn't have a lot of hills and the section line roads being ramrod-straight are awfully boring, but there are things that can be done to make the city look nicer.

I definitely agree. Take a trip down to Dallas or even Norman to get examples of things that the city could do to look nicer even in this climate. I think the first part of it is that landscaping/beautification is simply not something OKC does well (and never has in at least the post-urban renewal era). The second part of it is the type of trees they typically plant are faster growing softwoods which don't survive Oklahoma's ice storms and summer droughts. The 2007 ice storm in particular was especially devastating to central Oklahoma's tree canopy. The tall, mature trees in Heritage Hills are slow-growing post oaks and elms which are much more resilient.

[C_M_25]

This is really great conversation. I'm impressed everyone has remained civil as I have seen many of these discussions turn the other way. When I posted this question yesterday, I was hoping to hear different points of view and opinions regarding the state of the State of Oklahoma. More importantly, I was curious if anybody else was or has contemplated this very thing.

Now, my second question/topic focuses a little less on the bad around Oklahoma. "Why do I stay in Oklahoma?" Sometimes I wonder why I hang around here given the problems, but here are the reasons I stay (other than family of course):

1) People: This is absolute #1! There are good people here in Oklahoma. I've traveled all over the US and you have to look really hard to find people as nice as what you come across here. People really rally to help you out in a time of need. It is really something special.

2) Being an outdoorsman, I love the variation in our landscape across the state. Show me a place that has "mountains," beautiful mesa's, desert environments, green country, beautiful lakes, and deep river-filled canyons. It is really quite amazing! I wish it didn't take so long travel to some of these places.

3) The Weather: This is a love/hate relationship. It is exciting yet dangerous. I've seen some of the most amazing storm clouds across the plains. The sunsets are amazing as well! I just don't like the unpredictability and destruction our weather can bring.

4) Property values: While this is often over-played relative to many other cities, housing is very affordable here. I want to own land some day, and this is achievable here.

5) Potential: This state and the people within it has amazing potential. Will we ever be a tourist destination like Colorado? No. Of course not. However, if we can get our priorities in line, we have the potential to make this state a place people want to re-locate to.

You all have mentioned a lot of these points already. I just wanted to share with you why I stick around this place even though re-locating pops into my mind from time to time.

[poe]

This is really great conversation. I'm impressed everyone has remained civil as I have seen many of these discussions turn the other way. When I posted this question yesterday, I was hoping to hear different points of view and opinions regarding the state of the State of Oklahoma. More importantly, I was curious if anybody else was or has contemplated this very thing.

Now, my second question/topic focuses a little less on the bad around Oklahoma. "Why do I stay in Oklahoma?" Sometimes I wonder why I hang around here given the problems, but here are the reasons I stay (other than family of course):

1) People: This is absolute #1! There are good people here in Oklahoma. I've traveled all over the US and you have to look really hard to find people as nice as what you come across here. People really rally to help you out in a time of need. It is really something special.

2) Being an outdoorsman, I love the variation in our landscape across the state. Show me a place that has "mountains," beautiful mesa's, desert environments, green country, beautiful lakes, and deep river-filled canyons. It is really quite amazing! I wish it didn't take so long travel to some of these places.

3) The Weather: This is a love/hate relationship. It is exciting yet dangerous. I've seen some of the most amazing storm clouds across the plains. The sunsets are amazing as well! I just don't like the unpredictability and destruction our weather can bring.

4) Property values: While this is often over-played relative to many other cities, housing is very affordable here. I want to own land some day, and this is achievable here.

5) Potential: This state and the people within it has amazing potential. Will we ever be a tourist destination like Colorado? No. Of course not. However, if we can get our priorities in line, we have the potential to make this state a place people want to re-locate to.

You all have mentioned a lot of these points already. I just wanted to share with you why I stick around this place even though re-locating pops into my mind from time to time.

As a person who was born in Oklahoma and would like to one day settle in the OKC area, this post made me very happy.

[dankrutka]

I would disagree with a lot of the "end of the world" statements being made here. I'm a product of Oklahoma public education, and i had a good experience. We're still complaining about the same issues the teachers complained about when i was a kid....pay and budget. I dont think that will ever go away and we continue to pile more responsibilities on the teacher with the parents wanting to take less and less responsibility themselves for their "precious angels".

While i haven't lived in other states, i have family in several and some of my employees do live in other states, so i get a chance to throw questions to those folks. Let me tell you, we're far from the oddity in the U.S. in all of the issues listed above. There really is no "greener grass" across the state line, the problems are just different. Even in TX, where everyone LOVES to say things are so much better, teachers and staff dont get raises either. Their tax structure is totally different, but last time i checked, they still had under performing districts, budget issues, etc. as well. Don't think for a second that the TX legislature doesn't hear the same complaints ours does. They're cutting money to activities just like any other state. Heck, even in Austin schools right there next to the capital, band is a good example of funding being almost totally gone. There was a good piece on a HS Band discussing this very thing and the "creative" ways they have to use to make up for the state not funding them well enough....like paying for bus gas to go to games/contests.

Besides all that, funding isn't the end-all solution. Throwing money at a problem doesn't magically make it better. Look to Mississippi for an example. It has one of the lowest per-student spending rates in the region...no surprise. But some of the small towns have fought against that and exceed the state average by double digits. However, the economy in those towns is still terrible. I'll have to dig, but there's a good story on that out there in the interwebs...... So the question would be what did you get for that extra spending? In these towns, the students aren't leaving town, there just isn't a good economy for a good job after. So remember that education is only one piece to the puzzle of what the GOAL of education is. If you got a good education from school, but the only job you can get is minimum wage, was it worth it?

I disagree with your take on Oklahoma's education situation. The grass is greener for teachers in Texas. Let's compare two comparable cities: Norman, Oklahoma and Denton, Texas. Both are college towns of about 125,000 people that are only a 2 hour drive apart. The demographics are very similar. The difference in starting teacher pay is around $15-20,000 per year, which is astounding. This situation is the same for surrounding districts. Oklahoma's 2016 Teacher of the Year, Shawn Sheehan shared his paychecks so you can check for yourself: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/forme...73ef5e5ad.html

Of course, Texas schools have their own problems and issues. But Texas teachers are not moving to Oklahoma to work. Oklahoma is losing an incredible number of exceptional teachers to Texas and every year Oklahoma's pay situation stays like this they lose more. It's an absolute crisis. And I'll go further and say that Oklahoma's education is worse than any other state in the country. I attend national conferences and people constantly ask me, what's going on in Oklahoma?!? False equivalencies are very dangerous. This situation will cause long term harm to the state if not fixed soon.

[dankrutka]

5) Potential: This state and the people within it has amazing potential. Will we ever be a tourist destination like Colorado? No. Of course not. However, if we can get our priorities in line, we have the potential to make this state a place people want to re-locate to.

Kudos for starting an interesting thread.

I'd like to add that part of what keeps me interested in OKC is the potential. I lived in Midtown in 2010-2011 and it's been a blast to see the ways it's grown since then. And there is still so much untapped potential in the empty lots and other areas for creating a really special neighborhood. Again, there are a lot of good people striving to do good things and it's not hard to be a part of real change in OKC.

[Bunty]

The religious political culture definitely puts a dampener on that because it establishes religion as almost a pre-requisite for running. I would very much like to run for office and see if I could help tackle our state's problems, but one thing that holds me back is that I'm not religious, and if my opponent decided to try to campaign on out-religioning me, they'd probably win. I think that's probably the case for a lot of potential candidates, and so we're probably missing good leadership we didn't know we had because they simply don't want to fight against that environment.

Probably depends on district. My Dem. state rep is pro-choice, and wasn't afraid to say at a Jan. 2016 town hall meeting that he didn't believe that the Ten Commandments monument belonged outside the state capitol. In 2016, he didn't draw any opposition for reelection. However, his first election and first reelection were close. The results explained why he chose not to run for state senator when the position was wide open. The Senate district has more stronger Republican precincts.

More people should run as legislators, especially if they don't want to serve as an echo for what is already there. After the 2018 session, the Republican incumbents may be even more unpopular than they were in 2016. It won't help Republicans, if Trump's popularity declines under 50% in Oklahoma.

[rte66man]

More people should run as legislators

I worked as a Fiscal Analyst at the OK Legislature for 6 years back in the mid 90's so I know how the sausage is made. I would love to run, but I am lacking 2 things: time and money. If you have a full time job, you can't be an effective legislator. And no, being one isn't part time. While they may only be in session from February through May, they can't just ignore emails and calls from constituents the other 8 months. The base pay is around $38k. That would be a large pay cut for me. Since I already have State health benefits, there's no gain there. IMO, those 2 factors are what prevent many potential candidates from running. That and the cost of campaigning every 2 years.

[stlokc]

This is counter-intuitive to a lot of people’s gut sensibilities, but raising the legislators’ pay to $100K and setting up a situation where it really is a full-time job might be an approach that brings more serious people into the picture.

[MadMonk]

Interesting that you disliked that area. I absolutely loved it out there and still miss it even though I haven't been back in almost six years now. I actually almost bought a house, not knowing that literally a year later I would be moving back to Oklahoma (something I told myself at the time that I would never do). I agree that the summers can be brutal (though I actually think the dry Oklahoma summers are worse) but the springs and falls are especially nice out there. I miss not really having to worry about tornadoes. I miss the greenery and general lushness of the region and the tree-lined streets. The only place in central Oklahoma that looks anything like it is the Heritage Hills neighborhood.

I guess we've had very different experiences in both places. I've never lived anywhere else in the state so maybe other areas have a different vibe/experience. To each their own.

You have a point about the greenery and trees, though that's being devastated by Kudzu in a lot of areas (its still green I suppose!). I haven't been back for about 8 years now, but even then it had changed so much since I was there a couple years before. Still, there are a lot of forested areas that are much better than you'll find in central Oklahoma, though NE OK can be pretty nice too. Even so, I prefer the "long/wide" landscape views you can get here vs in that area (unless you're on top of a mountain). The sunrises and sunsets can't be beat here. When I first came to OK, tornadoes terrified me. I guess I'm used to them now and they don't really bother me so much. I just stay as prepared as possible. Driving in Ch/Mk was the worst. Not just traffic, but finding stuff in the crazy, antebellum-era street layouts was frustrating. You get used to it like anything else I suppose, but it's so much better here for me. Maybe it's just me, but it seemed like people there were just obnoxious and annoying, even those I counted as friends. Rude, condescending, and downright asshole-ish people were in abundance and the few incredibly kind people I met didn't' make up for it to me. Hands down, there are no friendlier, kinder people (even to strangers) than in OK.

But if we're talking just visiting, I definitely love the outer banks and all along the coasts of both Carolinas. Just not during hurricane season.

[HangryHippo]

Hands down, there are no friendlier, kinder people (even to strangers) than in OK.

I've lived all over and this is true.

[TheTravellers]

.... Hands down, there are no friendlier, kinder people (even to strangers) than in OK.

...

But deep down, they can still be incredibly racist and homophobic (personal experience from speaking with a lot of "nice" people (co-workers, etc., not friends because I don't count as friends people that are racist and homophobic) here).

[u50254082]

Are the assertions about our politics being overly religious actually true?

Or to frame it within the idea that context matters, is the religious influence in our politics any worse than a nearby Bible belt state that some of you would consider more progressive?

I'm not religious myself and it hasn't been hard to live my life that way in OK. We do have blue laws but they are slowly going away and it's not like a law has been passed for mandatory Bible class in public school so someone will have to clue me in.

And to counter some opinions stated so far, I love that we are a red state. I'll leave it at that since I'm sure that alone is enough to trigger some folks.

[Bellaboo]

But deep down, they can still be incredibly racist and homophobic (personal experience from speaking with a lot of "nice" people (co-workers, etc., not friends because I don't count as friends people that are racist and homophobic) here).

There are racists and homophobic folks everywhere. Oklahoma does not OWN the market in this regard.