Is the urban revival over?

[Midtowner]

OKC schools really shouldn't be an issue if you've bothered to do a little research. There are outstanding charter schools which are going to rank as high as or higher than your Edmond or Deer Creek schools. Aside from those, there are plenty of affordable Catholic schools which receive rave reviews. I get not wanting your kid to be the trail blazer. I'm looking at a hard choice here in a couple years with whether we send our kid to Putnam City schools vs. Catholic schools for pre-K (leaning hard on the Catholic route or trying to transfer in to Rex). The point is that if you live in OKC proper, there are lots of good options if you do your homework.

[BDP]

I don't know a real way to fix inner city schools, but I know it is the number 1 reason I live in Edmond and not around Penn Square or farther south. Just hoping that people with means send their kids to OKCPS probably won't fix them, though.

It's a tough equation for sure and I certainly get locating your family based on schools. I also agree that you can't just hope for people with means to send their kids to an under performing school. I don't have the answers either, but I don't think one has to send their own kids to OKCPS to help the system. I think what has to happen first is for people to begin to care about the schools and the kids at the schools that their own kids don't go to, and that seems to be a tough sell lately.

[Rover]

The problem is how the state funds schools and everyone prizing low property taxes over proper school funding. We need leadership in this state to insist on education over right wing populist politics. Shoot, the leaders of the state can't even understand science.

[onthestrip]

The problem is how the state funds schools and everyone prizing low property taxes over proper school funding. We need leadership in this state to insist on education over right wing populist politics. Shoot, the leaders of the state can't even understand science.

The problem isnt so much our low property tax rates but more of good ol boy county assessors not valuing property at market rates. This is a much bigger problem in rural counties.

[TheTravellers]

The problem is how the state funds schools and everyone prizing low property taxes over proper school funding. We need leadership in this state to insist on education over right wing populist politics. Shoot, the leaders of the state can't even understand science.

Or math.

[hoya]

The urban revival, I think has really failed to live up to what we had hoped for thus far. What I see going up are in most cases wood frame, 4 story structures with no retail on the bottom floors, probably all of which will be falling apart in 20 years or so. The more interesting, luxury housing seems to be going for around the same $/sq. ft. as what you'd see in downtown Dallas. I am not convinced downtown real estate will continue to increase in value. I don't think it's necessarily a wise investment compared to suburban property. I have reason to believe that there's a price bubble which will pop as soon as inventory shoots past demand, which is something which is bound to happen with all of the development we have going on right now.

Honestly, we're going to have to experience some boom and bust periods. No city escapes market volatility. This is just part of ongoing development.

If we're currently riding a bubble, then when it pops, the market will have to readjust. You exaggerate when you say a lot of these structures are going to be falling apart in 20 years. They won't be as nice as they are now, but they won't be structurally unsound. If you want affordable housing downtown, that may be the only way you get it. Yes, some people might lose their shirts in the process, but that's not unique to downtown real estate.

I don't think OKC's downtown growth is showing any sign of slowing down. There seem to be a lot of new things in the pipeline, and when the streetcar goes in we'll probably see even more stuff announced. Not every project will work out, of course. There are still fortunes to be made, and fortunes to be lost. But absent $10/barrel oil, or Tinker closing down, I think we're set for a sustained period of growth for a while. At some point, there'll be a crash and we'll have to deal with it. But that in itself is part of healthy, long-term growth. Every city goes through it.

[Midtowner]

I don't think I'm exaggerating. Nearly every new structure downtown is 4-stories and wood framed. These buildings are built to last 20ish years. Fraternity and sorority houses being built in Norman have more stringent building requirements. I do think we're riding a bubble. As I observed, developers in downtown OKC are marketing properties for downtown Dallas prices.

[bchris02]

I was in Kansas City this weekend and it was a truly eye opening experience. It made me think of what OKC could have been had the Pei Plan either not have happened or had been less disastrous. A lot of people on this board use Dallas as the model city but I think Kansas City is a better target to shoot for. Of course OKC is much smaller than Kansas City, but I think given the circumstances of how far behind downtown fell during the 1980s and early 90s, even at the current growth rate, it can be sustained a while. This city, even with all of its progress, still has a lot of ground to cover. To put it in perspective, in 2010 the urban core of OKC had 77,471 residents. Compare that to Louisville which had 106,000 residents. In terms of economic numbers, Louisville and OKC are very, very similar.

I really hope some higher quality infill downtown developments start happening, such as the Times Square development at 4th and EKG. I think the real wildcards are areas like the Wheeler District and Strawberry Fields. In those instances, the city is basically starting and trying to build an urban core from absolute scratch.

[dcsooner]

Now that Nashville has been awarded an MLS franchise and is a 3 pro sport town, I realize just how far behind OKC is in terms of growth, development , economic vitality etc. I really feel that the leadership in the State and City and the CULTURE of mediocrity is so pervasive that OKC will never become a place people WANT to live in and Stay in. People are flocking to Raleigh, NC, Nashville, Austin, other high growth places, but OKC although growing ever so slightly just does not seem able to catch fire and move into a high growth, expansion posture, at least for any sustained period of time. Why not? I ask myself that allot.

[bchris02]

nm

[bradh]

I don't think SLC is in the same breath as OKC. I think their religion is whacky but seems most Mormon conservatives are more open minded than what you describe and mention in every post possible in OKC. Plus, skiing in your backyard and a major airline hub.

[mugofbeer]

Utah is experiencing tremendous growth because their population, unlike Oklahoma's, is one of the most highly educated in the country.

[bradh]

Well that doesn't fit bchris' narrative that anywhere there is religion no one wants to go to

[bchris02]

Well that doesn't fit bchris' narrative that anywhere there is religion no one wants to go to

I mentioned education in my post that I removed. I believe that is a big piece of what is holding this city back. Anyways, my posting history here is a little too controversial for me to say what I wanted to say and not be attacked personally so I am done with this thread.

[mugofbeer]

I mentioned education in my post that I removed. I believe that is a big piece of what is holding this city back. Anyways, my posting history here is a little too controversial for me to say what I wanted to say and not be attacked personally so I am done with this thread.

I agree that there is much within fundamentalist Christianity I don't agree with and, there are times, that it holds back progress. At the same time, there needs to be an understanding that a large part of the population practices this and those who dont agree with it need to stop making fun, discriminating against it and otherwise demonstrating intolerance of faith and it's practices. The left seems to want to bend over backwards to Islam and those who practice it - yet tolerate practices within Islam that are far more extreme in the name of understanding and avoidance of being offensive.

[bradh]

I mentioned education in my post that I removed. I believe that is a big piece of what is holding this city back. Anyways, my posting history here is a little too controversial for me to say what I wanted to say and not be attacked personally so I am done with this thread.

bchris...you're dead on about education, that's why we moved.

[Plutonic Panda]

I mentioned education in my post that I removed. I believe that is a big piece of what is holding this city back. Anyways, my posting history here is a little too controversial for me to say what I wanted to say and not be attacked personally so I am done with this thread.

Be careful, logic is not permitted here and anything negative you say against OKC even though it is completely reasonable and warranted will not be tolerated. Halt your illegal activities at once.

[bradh]

Be careful, logic is not permitted here and anything negative you say against OKC even though it is completely reasonable and warranted will not be tolerated. Halt your illegal activities at once.

Logic is one thing. Blindly blaming everything on the church of Sally Kern is another (although sometimes in OK is warranted)

[Colbafone]

Man, IDK what you guys are smoking, but Bchris is dead on. Our state is radically behind most states because of our religious leadership. And not just broadly religious, but Southern Baptist. If we were a state dominated by ANY other denomination/religion, we would be much more productive, progressive, successful.

Unfortunately our state has been led by and is currently being led by likeminded individuals. We are the living embodiment of the people you see in the news and think, "there is no way people can be that backwardly religious".

And it's not getting any better. All the religious intolerance taught in 1950 at Norman First Baptist Church is the exact same religious intolerance taught at Edmond First Baptist today. The fact we have leaders like Mary Fallin, and people like Dan Fisher who want to replace her is just a total embarrassment. Next up we'll have John Bennett running for Governor.

[bradh]

What's funny is, I think a few decades ago they all voted blue. Abortion is the issue that pushed them red, everything else since the 90's has just been fuel to the fire.

[Plutonic Panda]

The fact they crosses are still displayed on the towers is laughable. Any other major cities do that? Houston and Dallas do not anymore. I believe they stopped awhile ago.

[bradh]

Pretty sure I saw one in Nashville a couple weeks ago, but honestly I was partaking in quite a bit of beverages that weekend so I could be mistaken.

[Plutonic Panda]

I think Houston had theirs up as recently as a couple years ago but no longer have them. I seem to recall Tucson having a cross lit but that’s the only city I can think of.

[SouthSide]

If the people who own the towers want to display crosses then they have the right to do so. Tolerance goes both ways.

[jonny d]

The fact they crosses are still displayed on the towers is laughable. Any other major cities do that? Houston and Dallas do not anymore. I believe they stopped awhile ago.

So you are arguing against capitalism? If they own the building, they can do whatever the heck they want with the lights on the building, as long as it doesn't break any laws. Which a cross doesn't.