Amazon

[OKCPetro83]

I don't know why everyone thinks this is going to be so amazing. These are just going to replace local jobs with other crappier local jobs and maybe even reduce the workforce. Amazon runs their warehouses with low-paying virtually contract labor. You are getting amazon supply chain develop, web services or site development staff because frankly they aren't coming to state where John Bennett is a legislator and Mary Fallin is governor. Let's all clap.

[Bellaboo]

I don't know why everyone thinks this is going to be so amazing. These are just going to replace local jobs with other crappier local jobs and maybe even reduce the workforce. Amazon runs their warehouses with low-paying virtually contract labor. You are getting amazon supply chain develop, web services or site development staff because frankly they aren't coming to state where John Bennett is a legislator and Mary Fallin is governor. Let's all clap.

They are here for a simple reason. For the collection of online sales tax which started March 1, 2017. They had to have a physical presence in state for the state to be able to collect. There HQ is in Seattle, where the majority of back office staff will remain.

This happened under the Fallin regime.

[stile99]

As much as Fallin would love to take credit, she had little if anything to do with it, and it's quite the opposite. They're not here so they can collect local tax, they are collecting local tax because they are now here.

[jerrywall]

I don't know why everyone thinks this is going to be so amazing. These are just going to replace local jobs with other crappier local jobs and maybe even reduce the workforce. Amazon runs their warehouses with low-paying virtually contract labor. You are getting amazon supply chain develop, web services or site development staff because frankly they aren't coming to state where John Bennett is a legislator and Mary Fallin is governor. Let's all clap.

They tend to start the pay for part time and full time employees at their warehouses and sortation facilities at $11-12 an hour. Not great, but it's entry level work, no experience necessary. Full time employees get health insurance from day one, and employee discounts and tuition assistance and paid holidays and other benefits. A couple hundred new jobs paying well over minimum wage is nothing to sneeze at.

And that's not counting the additional property taxes from the facilities, as well as the revenue from construction and such.

[stlokc]

My guess about OKC Petro's comment is that he/she was referring in some way to the structural changes in the economy. Amazon in the aggregate is taking business away from local retail. And it's not unique to OK and it's not OK's fault. It's a structural change in the economy. Amazon will employ a couple hundred people at $12/hour and at the same time, over the next few years, a few dozen local stores will close due to the "Amazon effect." The fact is it will ultimately be a loss to the city over time. I mean it's fine that Amazon is in OKC instead of Tulsa or Lawton or Enid but let's not pretend that ultimately it's a "net plus" to our economy.

[catch22]

I feel that Amazon competes with people who were only going to look on the web anyway. I doubt this will have much negative effect on local retailers, as a DC will only really be improving delivery times for Prime customers, it could be argued that those customers are not even local retailers customers to lose.

[stlokc]

Catch22, I appreciate your thoughts but I will tell you just this as an anecdote. I have never thought about anything more than what makes sense here.

[stlokc]

I'm sorry, I have no idea what that last post by me meant. I'm sure I had something in mind when I wrote it but it doesn't make sense in the light of day. Sorry. It was time for bed when I wrote that!

[traxx]

My guess about OKC Petro's comment is that he/she was referring in some way to the structural changes in the economy. Amazon in the aggregate is taking business away from local retail. And it's not unique to OK and it's not OK's fault. It's a structural change in the economy. Amazon will employ a couple hundred people at $12/hour and at the same time, over the next few years, a few dozen local stores will close due to the "Amazon effect." The fact is it will ultimately be a loss to the city over time. I mean it's fine that Amazon is in OKC instead of Tulsa or Lawton or Enid but let's not pretend that ultimately it's a "net plus" to our economy.

Kinda playing devil's advocate here, but most of the stuff I buy on Amazon is stuff I would've bought at Walmart or some other large retailer. Or I buy stuff that is not readily available at other places. I know that not everyone has my buying habits but it seems to me that Amazon is more of a threat to Walmart than to local stores. But I could be wrong.

[Mike_M]

Kinda playing devil's advocate here, but most of the stuff I buy on Amazon is stuff I would've bought at Walmart or some other large retailer. Or I buy stuff that is not readily available at other places. I know that not everyone has my buying habits but it seems to me that Amazon is more of a threat to Walmart than to local stores. But I could be wrong.

+1

[jerrywall]

My guess about OKC Petro's comment is that he/she was referring in some way to the structural changes in the economy. Amazon in the aggregate is taking business away from local retail. And it's not unique to OK and it's not OK's fault. It's a structural change in the economy. Amazon will employ a couple hundred people at $12/hour and at the same time, over the next few years, a few dozen local stores will close due to the "Amazon effect." The fact is it will ultimately be a loss to the city over time. I mean it's fine that Amazon is in OKC instead of Tulsa or Lawton or Enid but let's not pretend that ultimately it's a "net plus" to our economy.

It's not like opening these sorting facilities will somehow create more of the Amazon effect than they would if they didn't open here. So yes, I'd posit that it's a net plus to the economy vs them not opening these facilities here.

[catch22]

I'm sorry, I have no idea what that last post by me meant. I'm sure I had something in mind when I wrote it but it doesn't make sense in the light of day. Sorry. It was time for bed when I wrote that!

No worries, it didn't exactly make sense in the dark of night either.

[Bellaboo]

As much as Fallin would love to take credit, she had little if anything to do with it, and it's quite the opposite. They're not here so they can collect local tax, they are collecting local tax because they are now here.

See post number 12. That is not a lucky guess by Pete.

[Uptowner]

Kinda playing devil's advocate here, but most of the stuff I buy on Amazon is stuff I would've bought at Walmart or some other large retailer. Or I buy stuff that is not readily available at other places. I know that not everyone has my buying habits but it seems to me that Amazon is more of a threat to Walmart than to local stores. But I could be wrong.

-1

I look to Amazon to fulfil all the specialty items that I cannot find due to lack of existence of specialty retailers and contractors. I have bought everything from light fixtures to home theater setups, 70" flat screens, lithium batteries in bulk, furniture. I have a love/hate relationship. I love instant access to the product I want within 48-72hrs of purchase at the rock bottom price. But I hate that it creates instability in the local economy. I would purchase local for a premium of I was guaranteed access to the product but more often than not my options are: no local option at all, corporate box store, a local retailer that has a comparable product that I must compromise on, or "I don't have one in stock, but I could order it, it would be here in 5-8 business days."(in which case it is slower and more expensive than just using Amazon)

The biggest point is: it creates an environment where local stores can't exist. For example. Where is our hi-fi store? Where can I go buy a power supply for my rega turntable today? Or buy a pair of cans and a headphone amp?

[ShadowStrings]

I mostly buy crap I don't need that I wouldn't have sought out to buy locally anyway.

[stile99]

See post number 12. That is not a lucky guess by Pete.

OK, fine, you win. Mary Fallin personally brought Amazon here, and they only came here because, through her singular fortitude, she convinced them to voluntarily collect taxes that no law was forcing them to collect. It absolutely positively is not the opposite, that now that they have a physical presence, the law does indeed force them to collect it. No sirree Bob.

Hail Fallin.

[BDP]

I feel that Amazon competes with people who were only going to look on the web anyway. I doubt this will have much negative effect on local retailers, as a DC will only really be improving delivery times for Prime customers, it could be argued that those customers are not even local retailers customers to lose.

The net negative effects of amazon on the economy and the part they play in the erosion of independent businesses are already well documented. The presence of this facility probably won't compound that in any way. If anything, it's just a small band aid locally that doesn't offset the total negative impact they've had to date. In the end, the damage is already done and will continue whether they have a facility here or not.

https://ilsr.org/amazonfacts/

4. Amazon drains dollars from local economies.

Amazon provides virtually no jobs or economic benefits to the vast majority of communities from which it derives its revenue. This stands in stark contrast to local retailers. Several case studies have found that about $45 of every $100 you spend at locally owned stores stays in your community, supporting other businesses and jobs. (Local retailers buy many goods and services, like printing and accounting, from other local businesses; their employees spend most of their earnings locally; and so on.)

While the figure for national chain stores is considerably smaller, it’s almost zero for Amazon. In most cities and towns, save for a small amount paid to delivery drivers and perhaps a few third-party sellers using Amazon’s platform, all of the money residents spend at Amazon leaves their local economy, never to return.

So, basically, the money already being drained out of the local economy by Amazon will not suddenly come back because of this facility, but I guess it's just about getting whatever you can at this point.

[traxx]

The biggest point is: it creates an environment where local stores can't exist. For example. Where is our hi-fi store? Where can I go buy a power supply for my rega turntable today? Or buy a pair of cans and a headphone amp?

That world doesn't exist anymore and hasn't for a long time. When stores like Circuit City started to falter in the late '90s that world was going away well before Amazon had become what it is today. Even when Circuit City type stores were viable it still wasn't local, it was just a big box retailer.

[Zuplar]

This isn't related to Amazon, but I had thought I'd seen something on it, but can't find it now, but there is also dirt moving South of the Bridgestone school and I was curious what that was going to be.

[chuck5815]

That world doesn't exist anymore and hasn't for a long time. When stores like Circuit City started to falter in the late '90s that world was going away well before Amazon had become what it is today. Even when Circuit City type stores were viable it still wasn't a local, it was just a big box retailer.

Part of the trouble with headphones, or any good audio equipment really, is that the target market is relatively small. Most people have been brainwashed into thinking that Bose is the Gold Standard for high-end audio, which is rather hilarious when you think about how poor the products actually are.

Further, it's almost impossible for even a big box retailer, like Best Buy, to stock all of the possible iterations of headphones from Shure, Grado, Beyerdynamic, Fostex, Sennheiser, etc. Not to mention, it's likely difficult for those players to compete for planogram space with the likes of Beats, Skullcandy, Bose, etc. If you are into high-end audio, the Internet or a boutique store in a Big League City is your only ticket, IMO.

[Pete]

This isn't related to Amazon, but I had thought I'd seen something on it, but can't find it now, but there is also dirt moving South of the Bridgestone school and I was curious what that was going to be.

The land was recently purchased from Bridgestone (the former plant is due south) by a construction company in Kansas, but I can't find any permits for the work.

[Mike_M]

It's easy to think that Amazon is successful because of their monster logistics network. But it's way more than that. For each product you click on, there are multiple pictures, a detailed description, an accessible Q&A with the seller of the product, and honest reviews, among tons of other information. It's just an excellent decision making tool.

Compare that to a local shop's amateur Facebook page or non-existent web presence. A lot of us don't have time during the work week to strike out at a storefront when a completely reliable option exists.

[d-usa]

The net negative effects of amazon on the economy and the part they play in the erosion of independent businesses are already well documented. The presence of this facility probably won't compound that in any way. If anything, it's just a small band aid locally that doesn't offset the total negative impact they've had to date. In the end, the damage is already done and will continue whether they have a facility here or not.

https://ilsr.org/amazonfacts/



So, basically, the money already being drained out of the local economy by Amazon will not suddenly come back because of this facility, but I guess it's just about getting whatever you can at this point.

The $40 bucks that stays in the community at a regular store is also the $40 I save by shopping at Amazon. So I can pay $100 at Walmart, with $60 going to corporate, or just pay Amazon corporate $60 directly. The $40 I keep in my pocket now gets spend locally by myself vs being spend locally by Walmart.

[d-usa]

It's easy to think that Amazon is successful because of their monster logistics network. But it's way more than that. For each product you click on, there are multiple pictures, a detailed description, an accessible Q&A with the seller of the product, and honest reviews, among tons of other information. It's just an excellent decision making tool.

Compare that to a local shop's amateur Facebook page or non-existent web presence. A lot of us don't have time during the work week to strike out at a storefront when a completely reliable option exists.

I know for me there has been quite a few times where I was actually inside a physical store, staring at two boxes that don't tell me all that much, while browsing Amazon to read reviews and get information for the product in front of me, information I couldn't get from the store itself.

[David]

Speaking of Amazon, here's something interesting that I just got notice of in my email: