701 Hudson

[onthestrip]

The entire for sale market downtown right now is red-hot.

This is the problem with TIF... 1) Once you start giving it to developers, it's hard to decline subsequent applicants; and 2) you have this huge pot of money sitting there and everyone knows it.

And you keep land prices artificially inflated.

[David]

I can't say I was expecting this project to get any subsidy at all, and instead it got half a million? Could someone explain the economics involved, because it sounds like we just subsidized a bunch of rich people to live fancy.

[Pete]

I can't say I was expecting this project to get any subsidy at all, and instead it got half a million? Could someone explain the economics involved, because it sounds like we just subsidized a bunch of rich people to live fancy.

Basically, developers go to the Alliance for Economic Development (which controls TIF funds) and tells them they have a 'funding gap' that needs to be filled. That they can't get their project financed without assistance.

Amazingly, that amount always is between 4 and 7% and almost always gets granted.

You can't blame the developers, as it's completely free money to them and almost every other housing project downtown has received similar grants.


Many would question why on earth we are still subsidizing downtown development after billions in public investment and obvious forward momentum. But there are still hundreds of millions of tax dollars being redirected to TIF and that will continue happening for at least another 25 years.

[Spartan]

The frustrating thing is that it's not as if we're short on potential uses for a unique funding source like downtown ad valorem revenue. That's exactly how Seattle just financed a streetcar, and how Columbus is financing public parking garages all across the city.

The entire for sale market downtown right now is red-hot.

This is the problem with TIF... 1) Once you start giving it to developers, it's hard to decline subsequent applicants; and 2) you have this huge pot of money sitting there and everyone knows it.

The problem is that they're not getting projects that represent the next step up, which they should keep subsidizing, bc they won't raise the bar on what they will subsidize.

You're right that the for-sale market seems to be turning a corner, but man was it rough for the last two decades that I can recall. So many stalled projects, including The Factory, The Flatiron, and the Cotton Exchange, which would have really been great projects. Blair hit trouble with Block 42, the Maywood sales weren't too strong, a super cool concept, and then The Hill fiasco happened. Obviously the fact that the awful Hill townhouses became a hot commodity is saying a lot.

[Pete]

^

A lot of the projects you mentioned were never feasible.

It's one thing to put a rendering out, it's another to actually have a workable business model and it's hard to believe 4-7% is the difference in something not being done at all, ever.

[Spartan]

Well keep in mind also that cap rates in OKC have dropped from around 9 to 6-5 depending on a deal's NOI. That has to be the main reason that condos are feasible now.

The Factory was certainly never feasible. I think the other two should have worked, and would now. I think both the Flatiron and Cotton Exchange would still come in at the top of the market today.

[OkieDave]

Basically, developers go to the Alliance for Economic Development (which controls TIF funds) and tells them they have a 'funding gap' that needs to be filled. That they can't get their project financed without assistance.

Amazingly, that amount always is between 4 and 7% and almost always gets granted.

You can't blame the developers, as it's completely free money to them and almost every other housing project downtown has received similar grants.


Many would question why on earth we are still subsidizing downtown development after billions in public investment and obvious forward momentum. But there are still hundreds of millions of tax dollars being redirected to TIF and that will continue happening for at least another 25 years.

Discussion is 3 minutes long and starts at 1:16:30. Councilman Shadid pulled the item to vote against. Pointed out that the Project Plan of TIF #2 has city priorities as a driving factor and that this project for 11 condos with price/sq ft approaching $400 (4th floor 2 bedroom at just over 1500 sq ft selling for $585,000) is really for the 0.1% and impacts very few Oklahoma Citians. "If there are 600,000 people in OKC are there more than 600 looking to spend almost $400/sq ft" for a downtown condo? He then expresses hope that the Alliance can focus their considerable talents on more "meaningful" projects.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SySBPfMV-lI

[Spartan]

I hope there are certainly more than just 600 people looking to spend $400/sf for a downtown condo, or else we can just quit now lol.

[shawnw]

Going vertical

[Pete]

Yeah, was just going to post this:

[Pete]

Editing my previous post...

Of the 9 total units, their website shows 3 are reserved which leaves 6 available.

[Pete]

[Pete]

[5alive]

Looking at the rendering on page one...is this building going to be some kind of stone...if so, a very exciting addition to the area.

[Pete]

[shawnw]

Meant to post this, disappointed the top floors are stick, thought the whole thing was going to be concrete for some reason.

[shadfar]

thought the whole thing was going to be concrete for some reason.

I thought the same. if i'm paying these prices, i better not be able to hear the person above me ;-)

[OKCisOK4me]

I thought the same. if i'm paying these prices, i better not be able to hear the person above me ;-)

Yep...for the sf prices...this is just another 'blah' project...

[shawnw]

Didn't get a pic but they've started the 3rd floor

[shawnw]

Oh, and they've finally put up barriers for pedestrians to get around the fence without being in a traffic lane.

[riflesforwatie]

Oh, and they've finally put up barriers for pedestrians to get around the fence without being in a traffic lane.

Awesome

[Pete]

[shawnw]

Fourth story up, one more to go I think.

[shawnw]

Topped out

[HangryHippo]

Topped out

I LOVE this project! I can't wait to see what else Brent Swift does.