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Thread: Cumberland Court

  1. #1

    Western Ave. Cumberland Court

    From the Journal Record:

    Millionaire’s row: Developer to replace rental homes in Nichols Hills

    By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record January 29, 2016

    NICHOLS HILLS – Developer Tony Say started buying 1950s-era rental homes on Cumberland Drive in 2007. They sit between Avondale Drive and N. Western Ave.

    “I saw an opportunity to maybe tear down the old houses and build new ones,” he said. “It sort of mushroomed into buying a lot of houses over the course of the first couple of years.”

    By late 2008, Say had purchased 20 of the street’s 23 homes. Then the economy went south. Say continued to lease the homes until he thought the market was better.

    In the time that Say has owned the homes, Nichols Hills and Oklahoma City have seen major retail changes near Cumberland Drive. A Whole Foods Market opened in 2011. WP Glimcher bought the Classen Curve, Triangle and Nichols Hills Plaza shopping centers, with new tenants opening or coming soon. Pops, based in Arcadia, opened a second location in Nichols Hills Plaza. Trader Joe’s will be its neighbor later this year.

    Another developer approached Say about using his lots for a townhome project. But Say wanted to keep it as single-family structures.

    “We decided the best thing would be to transform that street,” he said. “We really want to build something that will be a long-lasting, legacy-type project.”

    The project, called Cumberland Court, required some cooperation between the city and Say’s team. The city granted a variance on how far the homes had to be set back from the streets and built walls on the development’s north, south and east sides, closing off Western Avenue.

    The Avondale entrance will have stone signage. There will be a concierge’s hut, providing services to the residents.

    The street will remain open, though, Say said.

    “We’re not building a private, gated community,” he said. “We’re improving what’s out there. We’re taking something that’s not pretty and making it really beautiful.”

    Nichols Hills Mayor Peter Hoffman said he is thrilled for the development. He said the block is being transformed from something that is OK to something spectacular.

    “The city is so grateful that Tony stayed the course for the many years it took to acquire each lot one by one, never flinching and never stopping,” Hoffman said.

    Say acquired the remaining three homes in 2015. When he first started purchasing on the block he paid about $200,000 per home. Last year it was $500,000.

    The mid-century homes will be replaced by homes ranging from 3,500 to 6,500 square feet. Say said he expects the homes to cost $1 million to $2 million. Bruce Bockus, architect with Bockus Payne Associates, has done the initial design work, though residents can choose their own architects. Tim Johnson did the engineering work.

    Say said there are four vacant homes, so he’s waiting on several other residents to vacate. The homes all have month-to-month leases. Former resident Logan Walcher and his wife, Kristen Walcher, moved into one of the homes shortly after getting married. He said he wasn’t surprised to have to move after living in his house for 10 months. He said it only took two weeks to find another home.

    While the Walchers are one of 23 families that were displaced, in the end, Hoffman said the project is a step forward for the city.

    “These homes will be pricey, but then at the same time, they’ll be beautiful and surrounded by other homes of high quality,” he said. “The whole neighborhood will represent the best of what there is in housing. It will be a beautiful living landmark for city of Oklahoma City and Nichols Hills.”

  2. #2

    Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    23 houses to be razed for new addition in Nichols Hills | News OK

    Very nice renderings and I like how they have the parking garages hidden. That is one thing I love about Dallas is the alleys for the parking garages. It makes the homes look so much better not having the huge aluminum or wood garage doors taking up 1/4 of the frontage.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    I like it. This is higher and better use. I know that the condo market is back around the nation, with a lot of folks looking specifically for a for-sale product near their work that fits their taste and lifestyle. That said, are we sure that the oil crash hasn't affected the condo market in OKC?

    It'd be cool if we could replace some of the affordability lost here with some decent affordable housing on Western. That could also be a strategy to chip away at the blight in Britton. Clear some shacks, build decent affordable housing, repeat. The whole Western Avenue corridor north of 63rd needs a good scrubbing, but there are some very good bones there. Add the light rail someday (which will run very close if not parallel to Western here), and you've got a very interesting redevelopment area.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    Why the need to tear everything down in OKC? These are fine, affordable homes being torn down. It's not like it's blighted. I used to rent a nice mid-century home not far from there. But sure, go ahead and replace it with a bunch of cookie cutter homes with tiny lawns. and no trees. Be sure to give all the homes granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances too while you're at it.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    don't disagree but, . . . location, location, location. . . and not a lot of "available" land for housing in that area.

  6. Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    LOL...gated to keep out all of the Nichols Hills riff-raff I suppose...

  7. #7

    Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    LOL...gated to keep out all of the Nichols Hills riff-raff I suppose...
    Not gated...

  8. Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    Quote Originally Posted by sooner88 View Post
    Not gated...
    Huh. So I guess the renderings in the article that have "Cumberland Court" on the wall and which clearly have gates in both directions and a guard shack at the entry must be for a different Cumberland Court, somewhere else?

  9. Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    Looks gated to me:




  10. #10

    Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    Huh. So I guess the renderings in the article that have "Cumberland Court" on the wall and which clearly have gates in both directions and a guard shack at the entry must be for a different Cumberland Court, somewhere else?
    Was going off of his quote.

    The street will remain open, though, Say said.

    “We’re not building a private, gated community,” he said. “We’re improving what’s out there. We’re taking something that’s not pretty and making it really beautiful.”

  11. #11

    Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    ^I noticed that as well. The renderings show gates but I believe the article says not gated. Seems weird.

  12. Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    If that's the way he feels, maybe don't build a gate and a guard shack? I mean, it's super-nice that they won't be closing the gate and all, but I don't think you can call that something other than a gated community. All you have to do is flip a switch and it's suddenly gated, right? I mean, there ARE actual GATES in the renderings.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    ...and the renderings appear to show cumberland terminating before it reaches western. -M

  14. #14

    Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    ...and the renderings appear to show cumberland terminating before it reaches western. -M
    Mentioned in the article too that they got a variance to close off Western.

  15. Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    ^^^^
    The article says that it does, but that there would be a pedestrian-only gate to Western.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    Well that's a problem. That's unacceptable.

    Quote Originally Posted by traxx View Post
    Why the need to tear everything down in OKC? These are fine, affordable homes being torn down. It's not like it's blighted. I used to rent a nice mid-century home not far from there. But sure, go ahead and replace it with a bunch of cookie cutter homes with tiny lawns. and no trees. Be sure to give all the homes granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances too while you're at it.
    I don't disagree that they're decent mid century homes. That said, they're highly cookie cutter...millions more exist. Meadowbrook is a little more unique.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    Quote Originally Posted by sooner88 View Post
    Mentioned in the article too that they got a variance to close off Western.
    gotcha... i saw the part where they requested a variance to the setback but somehow missed the part regarding the street closure. -M

  18. #18

    Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    The newsok article has this quote which seems to contradict the journal record quote...

    This exclusive development will offer residents an urban living experience, with the security of a private neighborhood...
    Between that and the renderings...

  19. Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    I'm ambivalent about putting a gated community up there; it's not such a big deal in my estimation because that area will always be suburban and exclusionary, no matter what. It just cracks me up to see gated communities in wealthy areas. The ultimate was/is in Oak Tree. When I was but a wee lad I delivered lumber and millwork for high-end homes, and was in Oak Tree almost daily. One of the under-construction homes to which I delivered was Scott Verplank's, in a garden home development deep inside the east side of Oak Tree.

    So, you drove way out into the countryside, miles past the end of the bus lines (which we all know is how undesirables get around, other than on foot or on bicycles) - and even miles past other wealthy housing additions - rolled up to the gated fortress of the Oak Tree entrance on Kelley. Once there, you spoke with an armed guard in the guard shack, who either had your name on a list or called a builder or resident for permission to let you in. Once you were approved, he opened the big iron gate. THEN, you drove deep into Oak Tree, past multi-million dollar homes (a number of which were owned by other PGA tour pros), until you reached the garden home development, WHICH WAS ITSELF GATED. I can't remember if you entered a code, or rang from the gate, or whatever, but the point was there was a (closed) gate. I just remember wondering exactly who they were protecting themselves from...

  20. #20

    Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    Gate inception is pretty hilarious.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    LOL...gated to keep out all of the Nichols Hills riff-raff I suppose...
    Quote Originally Posted by HHE View Post
    Gate inception is pretty hilarious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    I just remember wondering exactly who they were protecting themselves from...
    The comments above seem to denote a negative connotation towards gated communities/neighborhoods. Just curious to know if this is a popular sentiment? I hadn't seen too much discussion in regards to this topic anywhere before, but recently have seen it several times here on OKCtalk. I was marginally surprised to see it being portrayed in a somewhat negative light. Being as neutral as I can be on the subject matter, I was just curious to know, what.....if any reasons there were for it to garner such stigma.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    It is just easy to make fun of other people's choices...too poor..too rich....too young..too old...too private....to open...too religious...too much a heathen... and on and on and on. I find it pretty simple, if you don't want a style of life, don't live it. I doubt the critics of this development who criticize it as a lifestyle choice on this site would ever consider to move to NH or to this street. So snarky comments about people who do are unnecessary. While everyone had a good yuk about the stupid HH residents who thought that all apartment developments in midtown would breed tattoo parlors and sex shops, others must get a good yuk about the stereotyping done about their NH lifestyle. Trouble is, the "enlightened" criticizing each other are equally ridiculous.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy View Post
    The comments above seem to denote a negative connotation towards gated communities/neighborhoods. Just curious to know if this is a popular sentiment? I hadn't seen too much discussion in regards to this topic anywhere before, but recently have seen it several times here on OKCtalk. I was marginally surprised to see it being portrayed in a somewhat negative light. Being as neutral as I can be on the subject matter, I was just curious to know, what.....if any reasons there were for it to garner such stigma.
    I think you're reading too much into it. It's more a curiosity/observation I think. A gated community inside of a gated community does seem curious. And it's sort of funny to think of a gated community inside of NH (it just seems redundant). I'm not sure that folks really have a problem with gated communities (although someone can correct me if I'm wrong I'm sure). However, too many in an urban core could cause walkability and flow problems, I guess.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy View Post
    The comments above seem to denote a negative connotation towards gated communities/neighborhoods. Just curious to know if this is a popular sentiment? I hadn't seen too much discussion in regards to this topic anywhere before, but recently have seen it several times here on OKCtalk. I was marginally surprised to see it being portrayed in a somewhat negative light. Being as neutral as I can be on the subject matter, I was just curious to know, what.....if any reasons there were for it to garner such stigma.
    The whole urban-suburban rivalry seems ridiculous to me. Am I supposed to feel ashamed because I enjoy living in a gated neighborhood in a suburb. On the other hand, I also enjoy downtown OKC's dining and shopping and spend lots of money there. It is possible to love both urban and suburban vibes. The biggest benefit to me of a gated neighborhood is much less traffic. I can send my young son out to ride his bike to friends' houses in the neighborhood and I don't worry about busy corners.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Cumberland Drive: Nichols Hills

    Not a fan of gated communities...sends the message that only one type of person is welcome to your community.

    I don't have a problem with gated houses though. If you want personal security, a gated house/property makes much more sense than a gated community. A gated community is just thumping your chest.

    The more I live where I am....the more I can't wait to hit the lottery and buy about 250 acres of land in the middle of nowhere and never have to interact with another human being ever again in my life.

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