GE may move its HQ after Connecticut passed state corporate tax increases.

[Just the facts]

Carl Ichan represents everything that is wrong with Wall Street. The Stock Market was created so companies could raise debt-free capital for R&D and/or expansion. It has now turned 180 degrees where R&D cut and layoffs/store closings boost stock prices. The day traders, and now HFT, don't give a crap about anything more than 7 days out (or miliseconds out for HFT). All Carl Ichan is, is a glorified chop shop operator. Your car is worth 5x more in parts than it is as an operating vehicle - but for some reason you don't unlock that 'value'. That is where Carl comes along. He doesn't care if you have to walk after he chops your car up. He unlocks the value in your car and then finds someone elses car.

[Bunty]

Just abolish the federal corporate income tax and be through with tax giveaways. Make up for lost revenue by raising income taxes of millionaires. I don't care if tax accountants have to be laid off.

[zookeeper]

Vote Rand Paul for tax fairness.

GOP?s Rand Paul Calls For 14.5% Flat Tax - WSJ

The Flat Tax is the most unfair tax proposal there is. A middle class family pays the same rate as Donald Trump and the 1% - who have as much wealth as the rest of the country (99%) put together? The Flat Tax is a huge giveaway to the rich. That this makes sense to people is just shocking. Only In America.

[Jersey Boss]

Just abolish the federal corporate income tax and be through with tax giveaways. Make up for lost revenue by raising income taxes of millionaires. I don't care if tax accountants have to be laid off.

You realize that most millionaires are not wage earners and are not subject to the same rates of taxations that wage earners are.

[zookeeper]

You realize that most millionaires are not wage earners and are not subject to the same rates of taxations that wage earners are.

Exactly right. I have seen proposals that included a Flat Tax rate, elimination of the inheritance tax (which only applies to estates over 1 or 2 million dollars anyway) --- and elimination of capital gains. Imagine that gift to the rich. The consolidation of wealth is happening at a frightening pace and is not about the rich versus the poor. It's about the very, very, very rich and everyone else. They buy our elections, run our corporations, manage our banking system, decide who can and cannot keep their homes, own our elected officials and run roughshod over people who actually work for a living (as opposed to pushing paper). Just say no to the New American Oligarchy.

[Just the facts]

I support a wealth tax. Every year everyone fills out a networth statement and we pay taxes on that. Either that or the Fair Tax coupled with a stock/commodities purchase tax.

[zookeeper]

I support a wealth tax. Every year everyone fills out a networth statement and we pay taxes on that. Either that or the Fair Tax coupled with a stock/commodities purchase tax.

Me too.

[Urbanized]

I just don't understand the rationale behind requiring people who are more successful to pay a higher percentage of their income (which as a general rule they absolutely do, loophole bandits notwithstanding). Someone should pay a higher percentage of their income just because they have more money than me? Class envy is an ugly thing.

High-income Americans pay most income taxes, but enough to be 'fair'? | Pew Research Center

[Jersey Boss]

I don't understand the rationale of why someone who is under 18 years of age pays sales taxes. Nor do I understand why residents of the District of Columbia pay income taxes w/o representation. I guess I have an issue with your terminology of "punished". Paying taxes is a responsibility not a punishment. Why is the poor guy punished with jail for stealing 50 bucks from a retailer and the rich guy who manipulated hedge funds which resulted in many losing their pensions is fined, while not admitting wrongdoing?

[Jersey Boss]

I support a wealth tax. Every year everyone fills out a networth statement and we pay taxes on that. Either that or the Fair Tax coupled with a stock/commodities purchase tax.

Second the motion.

[zookeeper]

I just don't understand the rationale behind requiring people who are more successful to pay a higher percentage of their income (which as a general rule they absolutely do, loophole bandits notwithstanding). Someone should pay a higher percentage of their income just because they have more money than me? Class envy is an ugly thing.

High-income Americans pay most income taxes, but enough to be 'fair'? | Pew Research Center

Thank you, Urbanized, for proving my (and others) point.
Most on the right have stopped using this "look who pays the taxes" excuse. Because it simply proves the point of concentration of wealth.
This isn't really that difficult...
If all the money is being made by the few - who will be paying most of the taxes?
Simple, really.

[Just the facts]

The risk to society by wealth concentration is far greater than the 'injustice' perpatrated on a few extremely wealthy. It's not wealthy or class envy - it's the sustainabilty of the Republic at stake.

[Urbanized]

NM. Pointless conversation.

[Just the facts]

For those who are intetested, I recommend The Road to Serfdom by F.A. Hayek.

[Zorba]

I just don't understand the rationale behind requiring people who are more successful to pay a higher percentage of their income (which as a general rule they absolutely do, loophole bandits notwithstanding). Someone should pay a higher percentage of their income just because they have more money than me? Class envy is an ugly thing.

High-income Americans pay most income taxes, but enough to be 'fair'? | Pew Research Center

Because the people that make the most, generally benefit the most from government services, infrastructure and spending.

Also your chart is pure propaganda since it does not also show the percentage of income for each bracket. That vital piece of information was left off very intentionally.

[Urbanized]

As you wish, here are tax rates by bracket, courtesy 2015 Tax Brackets | Tax Foundation

Table 1. 2015 Taxable Income Brackets and Rates

Rate
Single Filers
Married Joint Filers
Head of Household Filers

10%
$0 to $9,225
$0 to $18,450
$0 to $13,150

15%
$9,225 to $37,450
$18,450 to $74,900
$13,150 to $50,200

25%
$37,450 to $90,750
$74,900 to $151,200
$50,200 to $129,600

28%
$90,750 to $189,300
$151,200 to $230,450
$129,600 to $209,850

33%
$189,300 to $411,500
$230,450 to $411,500
$209,850 to $411,500

35%
$411,500 to $413,200
$411,500 to $464,850
$411,500 to $439,000

39.6%
$413,200+
$464,850+
$439,000+

Obviously many wealthy people can avoid much of this through loopholes, which in many cases I would support closing. But saying that rich people account for more of our taxes simply because of wealth concentration? That's the real propaganda. They also account for more because they pay at a much higher rate, in general. The fact that so many people are super-OK with this (and crying for even more flesh) is kind of gross.

That link and chart that I previously posted are from the Pew Reseach Center, not Forbes or Fox News. Pew is not in the propaganda business. Just because something clashes with your own worldview doesn't mean that it's "propaganda." In many cases it just means that you are so invested in your narrow opinion that you are unwilling to consider information that doesn't line up with it, factual or not. That's why this discussion is a waste of my time. Out.

[Just the facts]

What do you want to Urbanized? We have a $17 trillion debt and annual deficits between $400 billion and $1.2 trillion. Where do we get the money? Should we be giving tax credits/breaks/rebates to ANY companies?

Do you think the uber-wealthy even care about the debt the rest of us will have to pay off -maybe with our lives? The answer is, no they don't because they buy the tax-free debt. And what does the government do with the money? Answer, they turn around and spend it on products made by uber-wealthy. And what does the uber-wealthy do with the profits? They buy stocks, more government debt, and reduce their business costs by off-shoring jobs, iincreasing automation, and coming to broke states like Oklahoma asking for handouts. THAT RIGHT THERE IS THE GE BUSINESS MODEL.

Now if you are okay with that then great, but I am not okay with it.

[hoya]

I did it to one side on the gun thread, it's only fair I do it to the other side here.

I look at that chart and I see a problem. As we go up the chart, we see a gradual increase in the amount of total tax dollars paid, which we would expect with an increasing amount of wealth. We see a hiccup with the $200,000 to 249,999 group where they're paying a much lower amount of total tax dollars (about 1/4) as the group above them.. This may be explained by the large drop in population of that group -- you're going from 11.2% of the population to 1.4% of the population. So they're 1/8 the population of the group above them, but they're paying 1/4 the taxes. This basically makes sense -- since they're making roughly twice the amount of money as the $100,000 to $199,999 group, they're paying twice the taxes, per person. So that makes sense.

But now we get to the problem. The $250,000 and up group are 2.4% of the population, but are paying 48.9% of the total taxes. Now you were good to point out the tax rates everyone is paying. Assuming everyone is "head of household", most of the $200-250K group are going to be taxed at 33% (the cutoff is $209.850, so there will be some taxed at the lower 28%, but we're just spitballing here so it's okay). Those in the $250K+ category will be taxed at 33%, 35%, or 39.6%, depending on exactly how much money they make.

Now that group is 2.4% of the population. They are paying nearly half of the total income taxes. But while their tax rate is higher, it's not astronomically so. Somebody earning $500,000 a year is paying 39.6%, whereas someone earning $250,000 a year is paying 33%. Since the population of that group is 58% larger (2.4 vs l.4) than the income bracket before them, we would expect them to pay more money. Since they are paying at a higher tax rate, we would expect them to pay more money. But they aren't paying so high a tax rate, and they aren't so large a group population-wise, that we would expect them to pay 49% of total income taxes -- not unless their income was crazy crazy high.

In other words, the chart you posted doesn't make sense unless the rich are REALLY rich -- they don't have a big enough population and aren't taxed at that much higher an amount to account for why they are paying so much more in total dollars. The only explanation is that each of them has gobs and gobs of money. Some back-of-the-napkin calculations show that each of those guys would have to be making about a million dollars a year of taxable income for the chart to make sense. But we know not all of them are millionaires. There's a big group of people who are earning between $250,000 and $999,999 a year, and their income is not substantial enough to explain that 48.9% amount. In other words, all the people making between $250K and $999K are dragging down the average. That means the people who are earning a million-plus dollars a year must be earning a whole lot more than that, enough to make up for all the slackers earning $300,000 a year who aren't pulling their own weight.

[TU 'cane]

The Flat Tax is the most unfair tax proposal there is. A middle class family pays the same rate as Donald Trump and the 1% - who have as much wealth as the rest of the country (99%) put together? The Flat Tax is a huge giveaway to the rich. That this makes sense to people is just shocking. Only In America.

The reason it's been pushed by the typical GOPer (I say this in all generality because I haven't seen any push from the Dems in favor of this...) for years is because it would actually be the fairest deal to the Middle Class, not the poor, and not *exactly* the rich, either. I know, that's extremely hard to swallow. But keep in mind, I'm meaning Middle Class, and more particularly "Upper" Middle Class, the ones who are generally able to start small businesses. We'll say for argument's sake those are the ones making $100-250,000 + yearly.

While your statement does contain some truth, I would have to counter that poor people, or just common people like us don't buy $1,000,000 yachts and cars ($145,000 in taxes right off the top at, for example, Rand Paul's 14.5% flat rate), relative to a bi-weekly or monthly grocery bill of $200 - $29 in taxes, for the rest of us. Of which we're probably paying more NOW with sales tax + additional income taxes. In fact, $17.16 in sales tax alone is paid on a typical grocery bill of $200 at Tulsa's sales tax rate of 8.584%.
That's where the fair tax makes it's greatest argument, in my opinion.

Now, to add to that...

Exactly right. I have seen proposals that included a Flat Tax rate, elimination of the inheritance tax (which only applies to estates over 1 or 2 million dollars anyway) --- and elimination of capital gains. Imagine that gift to the rich. The consolidation of wealth is happening at a frightening pace and is not about the rich versus the poor. It's about the very, very, very rich and everyone else. They buy our elections, run our corporations, manage our banking system, decide who can and cannot keep their homes, own our elected officials and run roughshod over people who actually work for a living (as opposed to pushing paper). Just say no to the New American Oligarchy.

I support a wealth tax. Every year everyone fills out a networth statement and we pay taxes on that. Either that or the Fair Tax coupled with a stock/commodities purchase tax.

In all honesty, I do believe, Fair Tax or not, that those making over $1,000,000 need at minimum a 10% income tax, no loopholes, plus I think this could have potential for bi-partisan compromise (hopefully it's at least tri-partisan by the time this is ever taken seriously). I'm not one for class warfare, however, the gap between the classes is only widening and the wealthy are getting wealthier while the poor are getting poorer. Reason? Tax holes and inflation, to name just a couple key components. The whole system is broken (like many things) and filled with so much sh*t, that at the end of the day, we, the common people, get screwed.

Edit: I've modified this post a couple times, changing a couple details and removing parts of the original.

[onthestrip]

I just don't understand the rationale behind requiring people who are more successful to pay a higher percentage of their income (which as a general rule they absolutely do, loophole bandits notwithstanding). Someone should pay a higher percentage of their income just because they have more money than me? Class envy is an ugly thing.

Big gaps in income inequality is even an uglier thing.

The rich pay the same rate as the poor. They just start paying a little more over certain amounts. And I dont know why its a surprise that the very top earners pay so much of the income taxes as a whole. There is huge concentrations of wealth between so few of people. And the poor could pay more of a % of that total income tax amount if they rich paid them more. Raise wages and we collect more taxes from them while also lessening the amount of government assistance doled out. Its a win win for everyone except the very top earners.

[Just the facts]

The whole system is broken (like many things) and filled with so much sh*t, that at the end of the day, we, the common people, get screwed.

I am still sticking by my 2020 prediction so we won't really have to worry about it much longer. Personally, I wouldn't mind reverting to City-State Republics as the primary form of government.

[Stew]

I support a wealth tax. Every year everyone fills out a networth statement and we pay taxes on that. Either that or the Fair Tax coupled with a stock/commodities purchase tax.

Good luck on that one,

[Just the facts]

Good luck on that one,

Trust me, I am under no illusion that we will see any other tax code than what we have right now. We are all-in on the progress trap.

[OU Adonis]

The rich also pay a hell of a lot more in sales taxes and excise taxes. They already pay their fair share (Loopholes withstanding).

Keep taxing them more and they will offshore more like the corporations have done.

[zookeeper]

The rich also pay a hell of a lot more in sales taxes and excise taxes. They already pay their fair share (Loopholes withstanding).

Keep taxing them more and they will offshore more like the corporations have done.

About your little picture: It's funny. Some of the the most powerful nations in the world economically are based on democratic socialism or social democracy. But, a lot of people around here have no clue what democratic socialism is. Obviously you don't. But forget socialism. It's sad that you consider the ultra, ultra wealthy paying a fairer share "socialism!" Sounds good on a bumpersticker though.

The 1%, Adonis, that owns more than the other 99% put together (do you not see that as grotesque and immoral?), in NO WAY pay their "fair share." The high-end investor class makes money from money from money that makes more money, while people who work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week can't even afford the basic necessities. Your rich, you speak so highly of, sound like fair-weather patriots if you think they'll offshore if asked to pay a fairer percentage of their unearned income. And yes, you read that right, nobody can "earn" the huge sums of wealth accumulated by the 1%. And actually, you probably won't believe this, because it sounds so fantastic, but we're really talking about the upper 1/10th of the 1%.