Dwellings at SoSA

[ChrisHayes]

400,000 for that? I thought I lived in Oklahoma City, not Orange County, California or Austin.

[bchris02]

400,000 for that? I thought I lived in Oklahoma City, not Orange County, California or Austin.

Home values in OKC's urban core right now are skyrocketing, but $400k for that seems to be a little excessive.

[Spartan]

Well why not? Developers have failed to create enough product to satisfy demand..

[Teo9969]

Well why not? Developers have failed to create enough product to satisfy demand..

While somewhat remote, an issue could arise from this problem: Most people who have the money to spend $250k+ on a house in this market are not stupid. The problem is, why would you buy in an area where prices are reaching $300/sf if prices are inflated due to a lack of supply. What happens if at some point the market is flooded with a bunch of supply and all of the sudden those $300/sf prices drop to $275/sf and stay that way for a 3 to 5 year period?

I tend to think the lifestyle will be enough to overcome that and that even still we're probably undervalued, but your comment sparked an angle of thought I hadn't considered before.

Really, if you can relent a little bit on the downtown lifestyle, I feel there are much better options (residentially speaking) further out into the core.

[bchris02]

Really, if you can relent a little bit on the downtown lifestyle, I feel there are much better options (residentially speaking) further out into the core.

This.

Right now is an excellent time to invest between 23rd and 50th along the Western Ave corridor. The area is transforming fast but you can still get some incredible deals. I imagine in five years, it will be much more expensive as it becomes fully gentrified.

[Canoe]

I wish edgemere elementary would gets its act together. *response to teo and bchris

[LisbonLofter]

Sounds like the asking price on the 1642 sq ft unit is 462k.

[Pete]

There are trade-offs and for some the views of SoSA are worth every penny, especially in a city that has so few view properties.

And personally, there is tremendous benefit to being able to walk everywhere without touching your car. As I noted in another thread, there are over 200 restaurants and bars within walking distance of Midtown and that's worth a lot to some... Including me.

I stayed in SoSA last week for 8 days and when I went to put gas in my rental car, it was still almost full. And that's with a trip to Oak Tree to visit a friend.


I love the Western corridor too, but it's completely different than the immediate downtown area.

[Bits_Of_Real_Panther]

There are trade-offs and for some the views of SoSA are worth every penny, especially in a city that has so few view properties.

And personally, there is tremendous benefit to being able to walk everywhere without touching your car. As I noted in another thread, there are over 200 restaurants and bars within walking distance of Midtown and that's worth a lot to some... Including me.

I stayed in SoSA last week for 8 days and when I went to put gas in my rental car, it was still almost full. And that's with a trip to Oak Tree to visit a friend.


I love the Western corridor too, but it's completely different than the immediate downtown area.

OT I eat Moe's burritos 8 days a week...wait thats not possible # humblebrag

[shawnw]

There was a stretch this summer where my car didn't get started for three straight weekends. Walked and biked everywhere.

[sooner88]

Aside from driving 10 miles roundtrip to work 5 days a week, I don't drive my car at all.... more often than not my car doesn't move the entire weekend.

[Teo9969]

Trust me, I would absolutely prefer to live downtown…but not for the 2x to 4x difference we're talking about, it's just a hard move to justify when I couldn't live my preferred lifestyle without owning an automobile (regardless if I only had to drive 3,000 miles/year) and especially when public transit access to downtown is going to get much better in the next 5-10 years (heck, even this upcoming year when Route 005 starts running at night).

Plus the growth potential is not nearly as high downtown as it is to the North. I mean, buying downtown is still a great investment. I still expect a 25% increase in home-value over the next 5+ years. But I think there are so many places to buy all around the core that have 50% to 125% growth in front of them in the next 5+ years. Couple that with the lack of upfront capital needs, I think having to spend an extra 30 to 60 minutes in my car every week is worth it.

My real question is this: What price per square foot do downtown homes need to start hitting before developers take notice? Or maybe the better question is, what's the best equilibrium for developers to build 50/50 Lease/Sale housing in terms of pricing per square foot. If Lease prices are $1.75/sf, do for sale need to hit $350/sf to be enticing?

[no1cub17]

My real question is this: What price per square foot do downtown homes need to start hitting before developers take notice? Or maybe the better question is, what's the best equilibrium for developers to build 50/50 Lease/Sale housing in terms of pricing per square foot. If Lease prices are $1.75/sf, do for sale need to hit $350/sf to be enticing?

I've wondered this too. Why won't someone build more condos in DD/AA that go from 300K-500K or so. Or maybe even a bit lower. At 250/sq ft that's still a liveable amount of space, especially downtown. It's like the Garretts built the Lofts then decided they'd had enough (which is fine, really - someone who actually knows what they're doing ought to come in!).

So many rental properties like Metropolitan, Maywood 2, Lift, but really zero new developments (that I know about) that are anything like the Lofts.

[Spartan]

Trust me, I would absolutely prefer to live downtown…but not for the 2x to 4x difference we're talking about, it's just a hard move to justify when I couldn't live my preferred lifestyle without owning an automobile (regardless if I only had to drive 3,000 miles/year) and especially when public transit access to downtown is going to get much better in the next 5-10 years (heck, even this upcoming year when Route 005 starts running at night).

Plus the growth potential is not nearly as high downtown as it is to the North. I mean, buying downtown is still a great investment. I still expect a 25% increase in home-value over the next 5+ years. But I think there are so many places to buy all around the core that have 50% to 125% growth in front of them in the next 5+ years. Couple that with the lack of upfront capital needs, I think having to spend an extra 30 to 60 minutes in my car every week is worth it.

My real question is this: What price per square foot do downtown homes need to start hitting before developers take notice? Or maybe the better question is, what's the best equilibrium for developers to build 50/50 Lease/Sale housing in terms of pricing per square foot. If Lease prices are $1.75/sf, do for sale need to hit $350/sf to be enticing?

Why do things have to be cheap?

[no1cub17]

Why do things have to be cheap?

Exactly - they don't. We just need more supply of quality housing stock - and it'll be cheaper/more affordable, even in downtown. Except apparently our esteemed city leaders insist only on "low density" residential development downtown? What a joke!

[Teo9969]

Why do things have to be cheap?

Huh?

[Pete]

The reason that there is so little for sale vs. rent is because property values downtown are rapidly appreciating and developers want to buy and hold, not sell off.

Also, it's been crazy easy to get loans on apartments because they have done so well, while condos historically have been very hit and miss in OKC.

I had one developer of a large urban project tell me that you almost have to go with local lenders and most of them are skeptical of condo projects.

[wsucougz]

Interesting note on this from the SOSA Facebook page:

***********
The developer's application to replat the land to create a subdivision of 14 modern tract homes ("Dwellings @ SoSA") is being considered by The City of Oklahoma City Planning Commission this Thursday at 1:30pm. Unfortunately, as currently proposed, the project requires variances for a number of public safety issues and has been flagged for non-compliance by several City departments. It will be interesting to see how the City weighs these concerns with the developer's goal of maximum density/profits.
Adding to the well-publicized opposition of area residents, Midtown Redevelopment Corporation, which works closely with the City to promote and develop this area of downtown, recently passed a resolution in opposition to the project. You can review the developer's preliminary plat, the Midtown Redevelopment Corporation letter to the Planning Commission and the neighborhood association's protest letter on the City's website, which is linked in this post.
At the time of this update, the Northline Development website states that pre-sale information on Dwellings @ SoSA will be available August 2015. No further information is given, and we have no additional information on that topic.

[no1cub17]

The reason that there is so little for sale vs. rent is because property values downtown are rapidly appreciating and developers want to buy and hold, not sell off.

Also, it's been crazy easy to get loans on apartments because they have done so well, while condos historically have been very hit and miss in OKC.

I had one developer of a large urban project tell me that you almost have to go with local lenders and most of them are skeptical of condo projects.

I could see how that last part could've been true a few years ago - but I don't think that's the case any longer. When I moved into the Lofts, half of the building (give or take) was unsold. In the 6 months afterwards, the building sold out, it seemed, in a jiffy. Look how quickly The Hill is selling - and it frankly is about as un-urban as you can get - compared to most of the other downtown for-sale housing. I'm really curious how the Browntones would do if they were introduced 2-3 years ago and not when they were. If cities like Milwaukee can have block after block of lakefront condos, why can't we have even one or two more projects with skyline views? I don't get it. There are so many young professionals/students living downtown now, most of whom love it. These people are prime candidates to buy when they start their real jobs. Let's not force them to go to Edmond!

[Pete]

The City staff has recommended the application be approved.

[LisbonLofter]

Seems like the "Friends of SoSa" feel that their future friends should only be those wealthy enough to build a single family home in a downtown district. Awfully progressive of them....

[onthestrip]

Seems like the "Friends of SoSa" feel that their future friends should only be those wealthy enough to build a single family home in a downtown district. Awfully progressive of them....

Ya, I don't understand why they think density shouldn't be a thing in downtown areas.

[Urbanized]

Here is the full protest letter:

http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/cache/2...5091714267.PDF

[okatty]

Here is the full protest letter:

http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/cache/2...5091714267.PDF

Might just be my Ipad but can't get that link to work. I'd like to see this if you happen to have another way to view or link..thanks.

[wsucougz]

Try this:

http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/view.as...fileid=2922709

May take a minute to load.