University of Oklahoma SAE Fraternity Closed After Racist Video

[Mel]

Λοιπόν, τι wiil σημαίνει αυτό;

[RadicalModerate]

If the ACLU doesn't get involved in This Entire First Amendment/Fiasco---like, immediately/right now----on behalf of The Greeks on the bus, it will prove that ALL of us are/be Bozos on the Bus and the ACLU will have lost all street cred regarding stuff that really matters. No? Ditto t' Mel ^

[CuatrodeMayo]

The chant had essentially 2 lines...It probably didn't take much time to learn it.

[hoya]

The problem is three-fold:

1) You will never go broke telling people what they want to hear.
2) It's fun to be self-righteous.
3) It's also fun to be a dickhead.

I bet that two-thirds of the guys on that bus, chanting along, aren't actually racist. What they said was racist, but remember point #3, it's fun to be a dickhead. Somebody starts up a chant, and they're gonna sing along. As long as it's offensive, they're gonna think it's funny. After all, they're drunk, they're there with their buddies, and who is ever gonna know, right?



The response to this little song is a combination of numbers 1 and 2. Is this national news-worthy? Front page of NBC and CNN? Breaking news, spoiled drunk white kids using racial slur, news at 11. But it's fun to be self-righteous. We can all sit back and feel how much better we are than these terrible people in the video. And you won't lose money telling people what they want to hear -- that a) (to white viewers) you're better than these people, and b) (to African Americans) the boogeyman is still out there, racism is alive and well. This feeds a mob mentality to pile on, didn't we just have a thread about social media punishment just like last week?

Look, racism is real, and it's out there. I'm not denying that. But there's a lot more power in the accusation of racism than there ever was before. And just like there are black people who get pulled over when they didn't do anything wrong, there are white people who get called racist for doing nothing at all. I'm probably going to be called a racist for this post. It's a powerful weapon, and it stirs people up -- because it's fun to be self-righteous and people love being told what they want to hear, and because some actual racism is still out there and is a horrible thing.

As far as Boren's reaction goes, it's entirely appropriate. The frat had to go. The university can't be associated with that kind of behavior. Fortunately this is going to be completely off the radar in about two days. It will be on to the next media outrage. Just last week we had cops in Missouri sending racist e-mails to each other. By Wednesday we'll have a teacher in Florida or something who makes a racially insensitive comment.

[okatty]

More videos popping up. Hard to confirm if authentic but bet they will start going viral if they get verified. And probably if they don't.

[dankrutka]

Two thoughts after reading this thread. First, I'm surprised at how many people are literally writing fictional rationalizations for why these kids might not really be racist. Im not even sure what to do with that. Second, the problem with race is NOT that people are taking about it and the media is covering it. The problem with racism is that it is persistent and systemic. OU Greek has had racist issues year after year, but they just haven't all made the news. Is anyone listening to OU's black students, including football players, who have been discussing regular race problems since before this incident?

What we need to do is have honest and humble conversations about race. MLK said the biggest problem with race in this country is the white moderate who prefers order over justice. Or, the go to for so many these days, deflection. I hear white people talk about Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson far more than anyone else. We can do better and the place to start is to realize that racism is alive and well as OU's students said.

[Mel]

At least it wasn't 99 bottles on the wall. That calls for a mercy killing. They need to make a reality program about 2 Aframs in a really nice car with the car loaded with internal and external cams and mics. Have them drive around the country and really see how bad DWB really is.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Made the news here in Seattle tonight...

[Laramie]

I recall when I was 8 years old; while at the State Fair of Oklahoma, I noticed a flag that was different from our current flag. It was a small version of the 'confederate flag,' my mom (who is Mexican) smiled when I threw a fit to purchase it. She let me buy it; she always claimed that I was bullheaded. I carried it around waving it throughout the fair , that flag remained in my room until the 6th grade. It was a history lesson the Dominion nuns at St. Martin De Porres had culminated (lessons) as a part of history that shed new light on that confederate flag.

Now as I become more aware of my environment and the incidents back then that occurred in my neighborhood (dead black baby found in dryer, black children kidnapped, black children rapped, sodomized reported by OKC's two black weekly newspapers--Black Dispatch & Oklahoma City Post) that I realized the dangers that existed.

As I returned home for lunch following that morning's Christian Doctrine class (old Baltimore catechism) & Civics class (Confederacy) I placed that flag in my closet. It remained there for quite some time until one day I discovered that it was gone. Mother had packed it away with the winter clothes.

Yes, for 4 years of my life I was naïve about the history of the confederate flag, it hung in my room for years (LMAO). We learned that the flag (confederate) represented a dark park of our history. It was then that I learned about the history of the South and the infamous Tulsa 1921 race riots.

We had our own sports (basketball, track & field) wars with the other Catholic Schools which included John Carroll, Christ the King, Rosary, St. Patrick, St. James, St. Philip Neri (MWC), Corpus Christi, Sacred Heart, Little Flower & St. Augustine's (Tulsa).

Racism and Bigotry were apart of our lives, it was alive among both Whites & Blacks. The dioceses of Oklahoma City (pre Archdiocese era) closed St. Martin's in 1962, our school merged with Corpus Christi (15th & Kelly) and the black community further expanded north of 13th Street (Medical Center Area) into Wildwood then beyond 50th toward Musgrave .

We were encouraged in the OKC Catholic Schools to attend Bishop McGuiness or Mount St. Mary to further our education. The nuns did not tolerate racism of any kind; they were very outspoken against it in any form (white or black). Yes, St. Martin De Porres had it share of minorities (Blacks, Indians, Hispanics).

[Urbanized]

Lead story on the Today Show this morning.

[JohnH_in_OKC]

I was a DU at OU from '78 to '82 and I know we didn't have any racial lines, but the songs were beyond vulgar.

We did, however, have an elderly housemother from Alabama who only referred to African Americans by the n-word. I hated it and everyone else did too, but she still did it openly and frequently.

The irony is that she was an expert on etiquette and I still remember and carry many of her lessons we were forced to endure.

Just shows how messed up the Southern culture was back in her day where people went to extreme measures to be 'proper', then had such contempt and hatred for people of color.

Pete - since you were a DU, here's a story I posted yesterday on Facebook that you may know something about:

The evil racist chant video from SAE fraternity members gives me the opportunity to tell a story. Back when I went to OU, one of my good friends in the 1967 OU President's Leadership Class was Tony Gilkey. He became the first Black member of a predominately white fraternity at OU. Tony invited me to visit his fraternity, Delta Upsilon, and they asked me to join (my sophomore year). This was the only fraternity I really considered joining since they also had Jewish members and Native American members. When I was a freshman, I always asked other fraternities that I visited if they had any Black or Jewish members at their chapter & I often received a chilly negative response.

During the summer before my freshman year, one fraternity took me to see James Brown performing at the Municipal Auditorium. I later discovered they were all white, all Christian & intended to stay that way, so I had no interest in pledging that fraternity -- or any other since no fraternity back then (that was rushing me) was interested in making changes to the status quo.

[okatty]

More videos popping up. Hard to confirm if authentic but bet they will start going viral if they get verified. And probably if they don't.

News is reporting of the video which is going around of SAE house mom. I saw it last night and purports to be her using N word over and over and appearing in a drunken state. KOCO said not releasing it until they can confirm its authenticity. But its making the social media rounds.

[BBatesokc]

Lead story on the Today Show this morning.

University of Oklahoma student: Sigma Alpha Epsilon's behavior 'not an isolated incident' - News - TODAY.com

[td25er]

What year were you in sae?

I was not in a frat. I played baseball in college. I hate OU too.

How the heck did you come to that conclusion? My whole post was about how racist people are, and how the media only likes one side and is incredibly dangerous.

Wow, some people....

[kelroy55]

I saw on one of the news stories the freshmen involved didn't even live at the Frat House and all lived in the dorms.

[jccouger]

Two thoughts after reading this thread. First, I'm surprised at how many people are literally writing fictional rationalizations for why these kids might not really be racist. Im not even sure what to do with that. Second, the problem with race is NOT that people are taking about it and the media is covering it. The problem with racism is that it is persistent and systemic. OU Greek has had racist issues year after year, but they just haven't all made the news. Is anyone listening to OU's black students, including football players, who have been discussing regular race problems since before this incident?

What we need to do is have honest and humble conversations about race. MLK said the biggest problem with race in this country is the white moderate who prefers order over justice. Or, the go to for so many these days, deflection. I hear white people talk about Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson far more than anyone else. We can do better and the place to start is to realize that racism is alive and well as OU's students said.

I can't believe how many people here are riving roundabout excuses for reasons why these kids aren't really racist. OR what they said/did isnt that bad. Despite this making every major news stations HEADLINE STORY. It makes me sick people would back these rich spoiled racists brats in any way shape or form.

[kelroy55]

I can't believe how many people here are riving roundabout excuses for reasons why these kids aren't really racist. OR what they said/did isnt that bad. Despite this making every major news stations HEADLINE STORY. It makes me sick people would back these rich spoiled racists brats in any way shape or form.

By God we should drag them through the streets and then flog them.

[BBatesokc]

I saw on one of the news stories the freshmen involved didn't even live at the Frat House and all lived in the dorms.

Freshmen are not supposed to live in the Frat house. At least not when I went to OU. I lived in the frat house when I was a freshman, but it was made clear to me it was against the rules and not to tell anyone with the school.

[jccouger]

By God we should drag them through the streets and then flog them.

hahaha! You are almost as funny as those drunk spoiled brats, maybe you guys should hang out at your next clan rally.

[Midtowner]

If the ACLU doesn't get involved in This Entire First Amendment/Fiasco---like, immediately/right now----on behalf of The Greeks on the bus, it will prove that ALL of us are/be Bozos on the Bus and the ACLU will have lost all street cred regarding stuff that really matters. No? Ditto t' Mel ^

It's not a First Amendment issue. The First Amendment applies only to acts of Congress, the state legislatures and municipal governments and even public universities. If SAE chooses to revoke it's chapter's charter and the local alumni decide to evict everyone from the chapter house, that's up to them. That's what happened. OU is under no obligation to recognize outside groups and has not expelled or taken action against any student as a result of this. SAE's national governance organization and their local alums have responded appropriately to this incident on their own so the ACLU is not needed at this point.

[LocoAko]

hahaha! You are almost as funny as those drunk spoiled brats, maybe you guys should hang out at your next clan rally.

I feel like you misunderstood kelroy's post...

[Midtowner]

no . SAE is Sigma Alpha Epsilon ("Sig Alp) . . . . Sig Ep is Sigma Phi Epsilon. . . (Sig Ep)

I was not confusing the two at all. Sig Ep and SAE are two major national fraternities which have eliminated pledging. Sig Ep has their "Balanced Man" program, which has actually had decent results... and I think they are now required to fully initiate new members within a very short time frame. SAE has recently done this as well. This has been done because both groups had historically been tagged with large judgments and settlements due to hazing incidents.

[kelroy55]

hahaha! You are almost as funny as those drunk spoiled brats, maybe you guys should hang out at your next clan rally.

Psssst it's spelled Klan.

[BBatesokc]

I can't believe how many people here are riving roundabout excuses for reasons why these kids aren't really racist. OR what they said/did isnt that bad. Despite this making every major news stations HEADLINE STORY. It makes me sick people would back these rich spoiled racists brats in any way shape or form.

Personally, in my way of thinking of things (which obviously will differ from others).... unless you know these kids personally, you, nor I have any idea if they are 'racists.' Did they say racist and hateful things in that video? Yep. But being a 'racist' isn't about one comment caught on tape. If that's how we measure a 'racist' then I guess you're gonna have to attach that label to me, because I've certainly told an off color joke or two, or three in the past (covering most likely every race, including my own). And most (99.999999%) people who claim they've never done the same, or fat shamed, or belittled another based on their appearance is a liar (in public or in private). Only those closest to them can (with any credibility) come forward to say whether or not these individuals are racists - based on their pattern of behavior.

What they are, are individuals who made a HUGE mistake (if that's even the right word) and need to be dealt with in a rational manner that is proportionate to the infraction.

The fraternity obviously fostered an atmosphere where racism was not only tolerated, but forwarded by the sharing of such songs and the fact these fraternity members felt comfortable enough to loudly and proudly sing them. For that, the fraternity needs to go.

Like was pointed out earlier by Hoyasooner (and much better than I could), people like to be self-righteous. And in this case the self-righteousness can be found on both sides of the table by the offenders and the mob reacting to it.

Is 'a racist' a noun or a verb? Is it a specific action or a description? If its a noun then I guess "once a racist, always a racist." If its a verb, then I guess you're only a racist while you're doing racist things.

I'm not making excuses. I'm thinking out loud in a rational manner - which is a foreign concept to some of you.

The best part is people who are so upset because of the negative labeling of others, yet they have no issue placing their own labels on the offenders.

[Swake]

Let’s be honest here too.

I didn’t go to OU, but 25 years ago when I was in college, SAE’s rep was of being the “Old South” KKK style frat. It seems little has changed, and not just at OU:

Here are more SAE racist “incidents” I found around the web:

2014 - University of Arizona
Arizona’s SAE chapter was put on suspension last November after the school received reports that they attacked a Jewish fraternity. Members of SAE went over to the Alpha Epsilon Pi fraternity, where they banged on the door and shouted racist slurs. They also physically assaulted four members of AEPi.
Sadly, Tucson police did not feel that this was a hate crime, according to Tucson News Now. However, one student commented that he didn’t feel the incident was too surprising, given that this was SAE.

2014 Clemson
SAE’s Clemson University chapter hosted a “Cripmas” party, named after the California-based “Crips” street gang. Photos of the incident depicted attendees at this party flashing gang signs and dressed in costumes intended to make them look like gang members. Much of the chapter’s leadership resigned after this incident, and the chapter “suspended all activity indefinitely” shortly after the incident, according to a statement by SAE’s national office.

2013 Washington University in St. Louis
The chapter was suspended after pledges reportedly sang racial slurs to African American students. According to one description of the incident, One guy began to recite the lyrics to a rap song (Bitches Ain’t **** by Dr. Dre) as if it were a slam poem. He was reading the lyrics from his phone. The majority of the group of guys he was with found it funny and some were laughing. One member of the group was videoing the event on his phone. The guys in the group asked the black people in the booth to “show some respect” for the performance. As [redacted] continued to recite the lyrics, he came across the word “nigga” and said it with no hesitation. One of the black students tossed an empty bottle at him in anger only to be told by the group that it was part of the song, so it was okay. The black student replied that it was still offensive and the group apologized half-heartedly. The student later apologized and admitted that this stunt was “part of an initiation for Sigma Alpha Epsilon.” The president of the Wash. U. chapter also apologized on Facebook.

2009 Valdosta State University in Georgia
SAE hosted a community forum on “Heritage, Hate or Fear?” that was inspired by the university’s SAE chapter’s practice of flying a Confederate Flag on its front lawn. A lawyer for the fraternity’s national headquarters warned that the chapter could lose its charter if it continued to fly the flag.

2006 Memphis
An SAE member at the University of Memphis quit the fraternity after two other frat members harassed him for dating a black woman. According to an editorial in the Memphis Commercial Appeal, the former SAE member “said SAE members used the N-word to refer to his girlfriend” and that they “also suggested that he must have met Darden on the street one night and that he couldn’t possibly be interested in a real relationship with someone of another race.” The Associated Press later reported that two students were suspended by SAE’s national office after they determined that these students “made comments that were inappropriate and unbecoming.”

2006 Baylor
SAE’s Baylor University chapter hosted an “E-Dawg”-themed party that the university’s NAACP chapter labeled “insensitive.” According to the Baylor Lariat, pictures “captured students wearing bandanas and holding 40-ounce bottles in brown paper during the party. One of the pictures depicted a student who covered herself in bronzer in imitation of a black person.” The pictures were discovered after they were posted to Facebook.

2000 Oglethorpe University
SAE’s Oglethorpe University chapter was put on probation, along with chapters from three other fraternities, after an incident where African American students visiting from other schools faced racial harassment and assault. According to one news report uncovered on Nexis, officials at two predominantly black colleges that competed in a cross-county meet at Oglethorpe “complained that Oglethorpe students in fraternity houses threw bottles at athletes and screamed racial epithets.”

Worst of all, Bloomberg did a study and found SAE to be the nation’s deadliest frat:
Sigma Alpha Epsilon Deaths Most Among Frats - Bloomberg