BOK Park Plaza

[Just the facts]

499 Seridan isn't being built to the sidewalk because of Sally Kern. It isn't going to have a city block full of parking because of the Tea Party. It is going to have these things because that is what the people building it and their apologists want, for the reasons I cited.


I rest my case.

[Rover]

Someone look up the definition of arrogance please. I think we have a winner.

It is so easy for someone who only has to deal with a keyboard to claim taste, style, wisdom, etc. because they NEVER have to deal with real world issues. It is much easier to be critical than to be productive.

While there are lots of good ideas passed around on this site regarding good urban design and community building, most all of which I agree with, I think this idea that everyone who is actually doing anything of substance in this city is stupid, corrupt, without good taste, etc. and the rest of us who don't throw a hissy fit at every turn are supposedly striving for mediocrity is just plain arrogance. It is one thing to work to make things better and it is another to read a book and then preach to the rest how stupid they are because they didn't read the same book. I admire the urbanists who are doing the hard and dirty work trying to get change actually made and laugh at those who merely sit and criticize.

[Pete]

Let's please get back to discussing this project and not all these tangential topics.

[Village]

So much unnecessary arguing and negativity. Oklahoma 10 years ago would kill for the development pace we have today...Sadly some of it is negative (such as this development), but so much more of it is positive and comparatively unspoken. OKC is doing the best we have in more then 50 years and is on the verge of something great, the negativity is in some cases warranted (JTF) But in cases like Soondoc it's pointless and only depresses and steers away people. Like it or not this forum represents in a large part the community of okc, so don't attempt to steer people away from that community or give them second thoughts about it.

[AP]

off topic

[Rover]

Then don't move here. The reality is you don't just wake up one day and suddenly it's a world class city. Progress is important. And as the saying goes, "perfection is the enemy of progress". OKC has made plenty of mistakes...just like in other cities. But it continues to improve and the economics have improved, making more possible, including more definitive and restrictive requirements. Without solid demand and favorable economics we have had to beg to get attention. Denying the previous lack of demand is silly. We can only exert leverage if we HAVE leverage. Finally we may have SOME. Now, we need to learn how that translates into better rules, and how hard we can use our leverage.

[bchris02]

off topic

[David]

Let's please get back to discussing this project and not all these tangential topics.

Was this just wind? Don't ignore the mods, guys.

[AP]

off topic

[David]

That has everything to do with the topic. The poster before me said, "Oklahoma 10 years ago would kill for the development pace we have today" talking specifically about this project. And my response falls in line with that. We should not settle for this project because it's better than 10 years ago. We need to hold every development to the highest standard for now. T o keep us on pace with peer cities. Wasn't that quote that's always repeated here something like, "Better than crappy makes us happy"

This is the exact derail that Pete just said to stop, so I rather doubt it does.

[AP]

off topic

[David]

You're trying to pivot and claim this post is about this specific development:

I REALLY get tired of people comparing OKC today to 10 years ago and how happy we should all be. No one thinks I'll move to OKC because it's way better than it was 10 years ago. They compare OKC now to other cities now. We should be judging ourselves with where we are compared to the rest of the country and how far we still are behind in terms of quality of life. Not how far we've come.

But it isn't, otherwise it would actually say something about this development.

[AP]

off topic

[Spartan]

So much unnecessary arguing and negativity. Oklahoma 10 years ago would kill for the development pace we have today...Sadly some of it is negative (such as this development), but so much more of it is positive and comparatively unspoken. OKC is doing the best we have in more then 50 years and is on the verge of something great, the negativity is in some cases warranted (JTF) But in cases like Soondoc it's pointless and only depresses and steers away people. Like it or not this forum represents in a large part the community of okc, so don't attempt to steer people away from that community or give them second thoughts about it.

The thing though is that the OKC of today is pretty complacent with just being a bigger version of its current self. The OKC of ten years ago truly aspired to be something greater, strongly self-ridiculed for its past civic mistakes, and dared to be progressive. That city was led by progressives who were able to fly under the political radar to turn a rotting city into an urban renaissance story. Today we are truly struggling to navigate through raised expectations and heightened awareness.

Downtown OKC had a very troubling 2014. We started with a ton of land speculation (which is clearly getting out of hand), then had a flurry of superblock developments proposed, and then ended the year on an oil bust. Steve Lackmeyer has been waxing poetic lately on what lies ahead... hopefully a shallower "bust" and faster recover, and a period of economic diversification. Best case scenario.

There is no better way to hedge our boom-bust cycles than a truly progressive civic culture. OKC can't out-Moore Moore, or out-Poteau Poteau...but it can be the state's inner city. It can compete with Dallas and KC, and it can continue to bring strong growth to Oklahoma and particularly Central Oklahoma. Coming up very soon: A metro population of 1.5 million. I'm a mere quarter-century old, but when I was a kid growing up in OKC the metro was just under 1 million and Tulsa was our closest big competitor. LOLZ

And despite how small-time and podunk it seems we were back then (we were reeling from tragedies, oil busts, and job losses), we still dreamed bigger than we do today.

[dankrutka]

“Nostalgia is only amnesia turned around.” - Adrienne Rich

[edcrunk]

If they simply made some cut outs in the building like the Otemachi Tower, it would make the building way more interesting.

[adaniel]

Well this is getting interesting:

Ed Shadid sits out as Oklahoma City Council votes to fight lawsuit | News OK

[Pete]

I don't think this is anything new.

Shadid's suit is basically suing the Board of Adjustment, which operates on behalf of the City of OKC.

So, the City has to defend the suit.

[Spartan]

It still annoys me that nobody has ever called out the cheapness of their parking structures. That's one of the main reasons we have the problem we have here.

I was working on a project in Dayton where our structured parking is going to run around $22,000 per space (for which we will need gap financing obviously). $20,000 is the standard for structured parking. Devon/Hines/Preftakes stated that they couldn't do any better on the parking because they're "already" spending $15,000 per space, right? That's HUGE.

[mrokc777]

Looks like they are ready to demolish the place.

[okclee]

Looks like they are ready to demolish the place.

Look at the smiles on their faces too. Someone should write captions as to what they are saying.
Something like... "man Okc is the perfect city for our demolition company, we should move our headquarters here".

[Spartan]

It looks like we are about to have the pleasurable experience of the Precision Difference..

The Precision Difference

[ChrisHayes]

So are they getting ready to demolish all the buildings or just one of them?

[jn1780]

Look at the smiles on their faces too. Someone should write captions as to what they are saying.
Something like... "man Okc is the perfect city for our demolition company, we should move our headquarters here".

They would be too late. Everything worth their time and effort has already been demolished.

[jn1780]

So are they getting ready to demolish all the buildings or just one of them?

They may be getting ready, but they can't demolish anything until the lawsuit issue is settled.