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Thread: BOK Park Plaza

  1. #26

    Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    Imagine that, a thread where everybody complains about something not being good enough for them.

  2. #27

    Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    Quote Originally Posted by td25er View Post
    Imagine that, a thread where everybody complains about something not being good enough for them.
    I think it's more that they could have built it without tearing down a building that could be reused and instead we are getting a non-descript 27 story glass box. And two plain nine story parking garages. It's not something I can get excited about. The Clayco proposal was something most people on here were really excited about, but had issues with the amount of TIF funds they were requesting. Go back and look at that thread when it was announced and see what I am talking about.

  3. #28

    Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    I really does need to be taller. Looks really short next to Devon. If it was over by Chase it would look like a better fit.

  4. #29

    Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    has some issues but very nice overall

  5. #30

    Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    This new hotel in Plano looks so familiar...

    http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/fi...-Rendering.jpg


    EDIT: Not that I'm against the structural design...I don't mind the glass...but I do mind the unnecessarily large plaza, lobby, and 2nd floor restaurant...that would have had an awesome patio space in that large plaza area if located on the first floor...and of course the sky-bridges make me scream.

  6. #31

    Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    Quote Originally Posted by KayneMo View Post
    I realize nothing will probably change, but I really wanted to express how I imagine this project to be.

    Street frontage with office/retail, about 11 to 12 floors of parking, and the 27-floor building on top. I made the garage narrower to fit among the buildings but I wanted to keep the tower's footprint relatively the same, so that resulted in overhangs! Really interesting and completely do-able. I didn't account for the other garage though.

    Sorry to disappoint a couple of you guys on here but I found this thread- not a bot. Is it really a possibility for them to do something like this which would actually be better and of course add some height. Sorry if a couple of you just can't take it when that gets mentioned, but I promise you if that's the worst thing you have to endure in life is reading about someone wanting some taller buildings, you are going to be ok.

    Also, I noticed that several others on this thread happen to agree. This project and location it does need to be a bit taller. Not saying it needs to be like Devon but it really needs to be in the 500 and above foot range. If some just can't see how awkward the Devon looks because it has nothing around it but smaller buildings, I don't know what to tell you. If we just had a couple more 550 to 600 foot buildings around there it would make a drastic difference in the skyline. Anyway, in regards to this, is it a slam dunk it is going to be built as proposed or could they build it on top of the garage and preserve a couple of buildings and increasing the height some- (which will make soondoc a happy camper)!

  7. Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    Dang. Adaptive algorithm.

  8. #33

    Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    Quote Originally Posted by hoyasooner View Post
    I don't mind the box. The parking garages will be ugly though.

    It would be fairly easy to make this project into a total home run.

    1) Eliminate the angle of the building so that you can keep the Hotel Black.
    2) Take out the back half of the Motor Hotel and incorporate it into the new building. Sort of like the Braniff building. Kinda. Convert the original half to luxury housing with ground level retail.
    3) On Main Street, recreate the original storefronts for your retail space. They're going to have to tear down those buildings to put in their parking garage, but there's no reason they can't make the corner of Main and Hudson look like the Carpenter Square Theater again. Much better than the sides of the Devon garage that currently lines Hudson.
    4) Build the garages study enough so that in the future a few levels of housing can be placed on top. People don't want to drive up 9 levels to park, but that doesn't mean you can't put 4 or 5 levels of nice expensive apartments with a view of the Myriad Gardens on top. Don't even have to do it now. Just build it so you can do it later.
    5) Incorporate some of your west parking garage into the base of your tower. This raises the tower up another 5 levels or so, so most of the offices will still have a great view of the park. That takes care of any lost parking spaces as a result of keeping the Hotel Black and the front of the Motor Hotel. The building will also be like 50 feet taller so that soondoc will shut the hell up.
    6) Make the ground floor design of the garage on Sheridan look similar to the old bus station.
    7) Make a space on Sheridan for the Lunch Box to come back.

    If they did half of those things, it would go a long way towards making people happy. If they did all of them, people would be ecstatic. And some of them should actually be really easy and not that expensive.

    Edit: These changes would also be something that would be worth allocating TIF funding to get.
    I actually agree with what you said except the extra feet, it needs to be 100 to 150. Just kidding, I would take the extra fifty if it takes it up to at least the height of what the title of the thread is 499. I really do think it would look great if they did tweak a few things and did as you mentioned and did some cool things to make it a win- win for all. I also think a 550- 600 foot tower would look amazing next to the Devon and that BOK at the top of the crown would sure look great on TV during those Thunder games. wink, wink!

  9. Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    Go ahead and attack, but it's not that bad, It's not a square, it's not a rectangle, kind of boxy but when built it'll tie in well. I think the angle is a nice twist as long as they incorporate the plaza. Yes they will tear down some buildings and it would be nice if One North Hudson would be saved and repurposed, but I can see they want total exposure to the MBG for this new tower.
    The auto hotel looks so cool but it's pretty much functionally obsolete in this location.
    If we're lucky, some of the issues (store fronts in the garages) can be modified or removed (skywalks) to become more acceptable.
    As a positive, visually the lighting effects on the top of the tower should really look good.

  10. #35

    Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    Quote Originally Posted by CuatrodeMayo View Post
    The retail spaces in the garages were clearly an afterthought. At 20' deep, they are barely large enough for pop-up shops.
    I'm sure most that space will be fitted with the fake window boxes ala the Devon garage along Hudson.

    To my knowledge, they haven't made any real effort to find tenants for that Devon space; it's not listed anywhere as available.

  11. #36

    Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    I created a thread for this. I also plan on creating a small development summary for OKC and Tulsa. I will only include the bigger projects however.

    Preftakes Tower - Oklahoma City - Oklahoma (OK) - City-Data Forum

  12. Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    Pickard Chilton are really revealing themselves to be a one trick pony. Did it really take them years to come up with this design because I could have done it in 20 minutes with some Lego blocks (of course, I would have been personally embarrassed to show it to anyone).

  13. #38

    Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    Oh some of these comments are just getting ridiculous.

  14. #39

    Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    I really hope they didn't pay Pickard Chilton a lot of money. It's the exact same facade as Devon.

    They could also easily light more than just the crown and do it correctly on this building so that they could do impressive things with especially the east and west façades.

  15. #40

    Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    It is very clear this is nothing more than a Devon campus expansion.

    If you view it in that light, it makes complete sense. There are already tons of amenities and bells and whistles in the rest of the campus; this is just extra office space and parking.

    As John Pickard said, Devon Tower is The King and everything else is built to complement it.

  16. Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    Instead of the "podium" the devon center has I wish it was this building in its place. That would have been nice.

  17. #42

    Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    It is very clear this is nothing more than a Devon campus expansion.

    If you view it in that light, it makes complete sense. There are already tons of amenities and bells and whistles in the rest of the campus; this is just extra office space and parking.

    As John Pickard said, Devon Tower is The King and everything else is built to complement it.
    Was this their plan from the beginning? Because I thought the whole idea of the Devon tower was to get all Devon employees in one building.

  18. #43

    Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    I think Devon got involved in helping Preftakes acquire this block when they started looking at their current site for their HQ. At that time, I don't think they had a specific plan other than wanting to control the block immediately west of where they planned to set up shop. Remember, they also bought the Colcord to the east.

    Then, the plan evolved over time. I think they grew faster than anticipated and ran completely out of parking and office space.

    My understanding is that BOK will take the top 5-6 floors and Devon most the rest. No doubt they have options to eventually take over as much space in the building as they may want/need.

  19. #44

    Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    I wonder if it's just not feasible to build new high rises in Oklahoma City without making rest of the block a parking garage? If it really isn't, we're going to have a really ugly downtown in 20 years.

  20. #45

    Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    This is somewhat of a situation of the chickens coming home to roost from our past.

    Think about it; none of the big downtown office buildings have parking.

    Leadership Square has a tiny bit below, same for BOK Plaza, and SandRidge Tower. Maybe accomodates 2% of their tenant needs. FNC, City Place, Oklahoma Tower (has some but not enough), Corporate Tower, Chase, Continental, Braniff, Parkside on and on.

    Yes, there are parking garages but they are nowhere near adequate and are all operating well over 100%.

    So, there isn't much choice for a developer: build your own parking or you'll never be able to lease the space.

  21. Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    Quote Originally Posted by NWOKCGuy View Post
    Oh some of these comments are just getting ridiculous.
    Think about it. For over 20 years there was very little construction downtown and nothing major for that matter. That would warrant complaints in my opinion. Pickard Chilton has a stellar record, take a look at their website. I'm pretty sure they were tasked to compliment the Devon HQ building with the 499 Sheridan Tower and that they did.

  22. #47

    Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    This is somewhat of a situation of the chickens coming home to roost from our past.

    Think about it; none of the big downtown office buildings have parking.

    Leadership Square has a tiny bit below, same for BOK Plaza, and SandRidge Tower. Maybe accomodates 2% of their tenant needs. FNC, City Place, Oklahoma Tower (has some but not enough), Corporate Tower, Chase, Continental, Braniff, Parkside on and on.

    Yes, there are parking garages but they are nowhere near adequate and are all operating well over 100%.

    So, there isn't much choice for a developer: build your own parking or you'll never be able to lease the space.
    I was going to ask, has DT OKC ever had enough or even some surplus parking? Like you mention the city made an awful mistake in it past by not building enough parking structures and now that we HAVE to catch up people are bitching about it. HOPEFULLY all the parking at 499 and the Clayco properties will get us to where we need to be and maybe a little ahead so the cox site doesnt have to get saturated with garages. There is no doubt DT is moving west fairly quickly, why make the same mistakes of our past and ignore parking. I'd guess and its a total guess that to make a garage profitable it would only need to be about 70% full during the week. Wish we could keep the old buildings but looking forward to 499 starting to rise!

  23. #48

    Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    Quote Originally Posted by Bellaboo View Post
    Think about it. For over 20 years there was very little construction downtown and nothing major for that matter. That would warrant complaints in my opinion. Pickard Chilton has a stellar record, take a look at their website. I'm pretty sure they were tasked to compliment the Devon HQ building with the 499 Sheridan Tower and that they did.
    I reviewed their website, and for some odd reason, this project is not on there? Too early, maybe they just haven't uploaded it yet, or maybe they are ashamed?

  24. Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    Quote Originally Posted by G.Walker View Post
    I took at at their website, and for some odd reason, this project is not on there? Too early, maybe they just haven't uploaded it yet, or maybe they are ashamed?
    Do they have a building permit issued yet ?

  25. #50

    Default Re: 499 Sheridan

    When I worked at Leadership Square in the dead 1980's, there was enough parking. But of course, we had the massive Galleria parking lot which is now the site of Devon; and office vacancy rates were high.

    But even so, there were tons of surface lots everywhere. Because I had to pay for my own parking and spent tons of time out of the office, I'd usually just park on a side street or surface lot and walk a couple of blocks. That's not an option any more.

    I really think this parking crunch is a pretty new development and the City did see it coming, as they commissioned a parking study several years ago. As it is, they put up the new Main Street Garage and the place was full they day they opened it.

    The bottom line is that right now and for the foreseeable future, if you want to build new office space you have to build an ample garage as well, otherwise you will have no place for the new workers to park.

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