OG&E Energy Center

[Paseofreak]

If exposure is the issue, take that show on the road and talk to developers. We could do some background research (if it isn't already credibly done) and send a team on the road for six months for two percent of the TIF request and probably interest ten times more developers than responded to the RFP that would have us on the radar for future work. No, this deal fell in their lap and they are make it happen with the least effort possible. You know, one in the hand...

[Just the facts]

I'm not buying this whole exposure theory - Clayco came to us on the south lot. I say re-bid it with a 180 days deadline and see if we can get any more responses.

[Paseofreak]

Kinda what I think, but only after aggressively promoting it/us for six months.

[ljbab728]

Now the whole thing seems to be linked together with a huge TIF request that will result in either rent subsidies to commercial interests (at least one of which will relocate from within the city) in a tight office space market and residential rent subsidies for a select few hundred that are at the high end of the socio-economic spectrum; or will generate a handsome profit for the developer.

Maybe I missed something. What discussion has there been about rent subsidies?

[Paseofreak]

None. That is a potential net effect of the TIF, if approved.

[ljbab728]

None. That is a potential net effect of the TIF, if approved.

OK, if that's the case it's certainly not anything I'm going to worry about.

[bchris02]

My comment was based on bchris's assumption that a declining oil market will leave this lot empty for the foreseeable future. It only stands to reason that if there isn't a tenant needing office space then if the building exist there still isn't anyone to occupy it. Personally, I think these lot can be developed with zero TIF funding. As Pete pointed out - if it can't be done now when could it ever be done? At some point we need to jump out of the nest and see if we can fly.

If declining oil prices leads to a collapse of the local economy ala 1983, then yes the Stage Center lot could remain empty. I don't think we need to worry about that quite yet but I am just saying that it could happen. Real-estate deals take a long time to come together and if this Clayco deal falls apart it could be 2-3 years before something else is announced. Who knows what the economy will look like then.

Also, I don't believe OKC is at a point yet where this kind of development could happen with zero TIF. For some reason national developers still underestimate this market, something I think goes back to what ChrisHayes was saying about perception and exposure. By the numbers OKC looks really good but for one reason or another this city doesn't seem to be able to attract the level of developments other cities do without subsidy. Austin on the otherhand is a media darling and I am sure the hype factors in to some of the developments they are getting. OKC needs more positive exposure. Some people fear that if this development gets the TIF and is a failure it could be catastrophic but what if it is a success? It could set a new standard for the quality of future developments here.

[hoya]

I want the development to be a success. I want the towers exactly as pictured. Before the TIF amount Clayco was seeking was revealed, I was one of the biggest cheerleaders for this project on this thread.

I still want Clayco to build these. I just don't want to overpay. Right now the public funding they want is waaay too high.

[Richard at Remax]

are there really no for sale units? thats a shame

[Dubya61]

They are basically asking for all their tax dollars to be returned in the form of TIF, so over then next 25 years that would be about $140 million.

You know, that sort of negates the idea that this is a higher or better use. What would make it a higher or better use (than the now-obliterated Stage Center)? The fact that whatever is there would now be paying taxes. Now it will only be a better use of the land if you were one of those who thought that Stage Center was aesthetic blight.

[ChrisHayes]

Unfortunately, many people outside Oklahoma don't know what Oklahoma City is all about. Many view it as a cattle town. We know it's not. That's why we need more advertising. I talk about the city all the time on Facebook. If we have a big development go up that will only help the perception

[bchris02]

Unfortunately, many people outside Oklahoma don't know what Oklahoma City is all about. Many view it as a cattle town. We know it's not. That's why we need more advertising. I talk about the city all the time on Facebook. If we have a big development go up that will only help the perception

+1

This is getting off topic but it's another reason the convention center is so important. It will help get OKC more national exposure especially in the business world, which is what is needed for better quality developments.

[Pete]

The Chamber does a fantastic job of promoting OKC and showcasing all the best articles and recent developments.

I don't think too many people who know anything about real estate (like developers and retailers) regard OKC as a cowtown.

[Just the facts]

Also, I don't believe OKC is at a point yet where this kind of development could happen with zero TIF. For some reason national developers still underestimate this market, something I think goes back to what ChrisHayes was saying about perception and exposure.

Unfortunately, many people outside Oklahoma don't know what Oklahoma City is all about. Many view it as a cattle town. We know it's not. That's why we need more advertising. I talk about the city all the time on Facebook. If we have a big development go up that will only help the perception

How do you guys explain all the office buildings built on Memorial with nary a TIF dollar in sight.

[Urbanized]

Artificially cheap-to-develop land and other sprawl subsidy. The incentives just come in a different form. Come on, JTF. That is DIRECTLY in your own wheelhouse.

[Rover]

I explain it as $20-30 million vs. $530 Million. I explain it as the city having no extraordinary interest in developing the area for high rise apartments.

[Pete]

It will be interesting to see what the Parkside building rents for.

It's the first new construction spec office space in a long time.

[Urbanized]

I explain it as $20-30 million vs. $530 Million. I explain it as the city having no extraordinary interest in developing the area for high rise apartments.

Also 100% on-target.

[DoctorTaco]

It will be interesting to see what the Parkside building rents for.

It's the first new construction spec office space in a long time.

This assumes that Parkside will be completed prior to the completion of the OG&E Center...

[Paseofreak]

Hey Pete, care to hazard a guess how many developers in the country that would be well suited to take on this project/site?

[Pete]

I'm starting to unravel the mysteries of TIF #2, which is the over-arching TIF that covers pretty much the whole downtown area.

One important bit of information: There is only a 50% assessment of increased property values due to sales or development where there is no public assistance. This is termed "indirect" increment and at this point the Stage Center property falls into this category.

"Direct" means 100% of the increase in property values goes into TIF #2, but this only applies to projects that get direct public assistance.

I've put together a list of projects that have received TIF allocations but there are dozens and I'm waiting to get a list directly from the City.

[Just the facts]

Artificially cheap-to-develop land and other sprawl subsidy. The incentives just come in a different form. Come on, JTF. That is DIRECTLY in your own wheelhouse.

I meant, why are they able to attract developers and tenants if no one knows about OKC?

[Pete]

This is from a presentation authored and given by Cathy O'Connor to the Streetcar Subcommittee earlier this year:

Tax Increment Financing
• Definition:
– Local redevelopment technique which municipalities may use to fund specified public and private improvements
– Tax increment financing allows a community to recapture the increase in property taxes that result from redevelopment in a blighted area

[Rover]

I meant, why are they able to attract developers and tenants if no one knows about OKC?

Those buildings are being built by OKC companies as headquarters, or as regional headquarters for companies already heavily invested in the area.

[Spartan]

I think it would be more accurate to say "in the past, OCURA didn't do clawback."

I understand they could still enforce the timeline originally proposed by Somerset (Deep Deuce Apartments) and Randy Hogan? (maybe wishful thinking)