Oklahoma Passenger Rail Updates(non-HSR)

[baralheia]

It looks like the Heartland Flyer extension could be a reality as soon as 2020:

https://www.kwch.com/content/news/Am...507599721.html

It's important to note this would only happen if Congress increased Amtrak's appropriation for FY2020 from current levels, and even then it'd only fast-track the expansion project - not necessarily guarantee service to begin in 2020.

What Amtrak has specifically outlined in their FY2020 budget request is an overall funding request of $1.8 billion to maintain the NEC and the National Network. However, for the last two years, Congress has actually appropriated $1.941 billion to Amtrak, and so in this budget request they listed other projects that could be funded were Congress to continue to appropriate funds above Amtrak's actual budget request. If they maintained the current funding level, the amount over their ask ($141 million) would be immediately earmarked for certain capitol improvement projects, mostly along the NEC. Were Congress to increase appropriations above the current level, Amtrak listed further projects they consider high priority that such funding could be used for. These items include new locomotives and the replacement of Amfleet I cars, as well as route restorations and new routes - including a Heartland Flyer extension to Newton, KS and an additional frequency. That said, Amtrak notes that their augmented funding project list is "illustrative" - intended to show priorities but not committing to those listed projects.

You can read Amtrak's full budget request for FY2020 here: https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/p...nt-Request.pdf

Further reading about the Heartland Flyer component of Amtrak's FY2020 budget request: http://texasrailadvocates.org/2019/0...yer-expansion/

[Plutonic Panda]

https://newsok.com/article/5626856/r...mtrak-proposal

I’ve heard that there is a bill that looks to create a new department in the Oklahoma state government for mass transit taking away that current responsibility from OkDOT.

[rte66man]

https://newsok.com/article/5626856/r...mtrak-proposal

I’ve heard that there is a bill that looks to create a new department in the Oklahoma state government for mass transit taking away that current responsibility from OkDOT.

HB1365 creates the Office of Mobility and Public Transit within the Department of Transportation. The title and enacting clause are off which means it will have to pass the Senate and go to a conference committee where the final form is anyone's guess.

[Zorba]

https://newsok.com/article/5626856/r...mtrak-proposal

I’ve heard that there is a bill that looks to create a new department in the Oklahoma state government for mass transit taking away that current responsibility from OkDOT.

I can see that being a good or bad thing. I lean towards it sounds good on paper, but will be bad in practice, unless it includes a specific ongoing funding source for projects.

[shawnw]

https://oklahoman.com/article/563792...city-and-tulsa

[shawnw]

https://twitter.com/samjmintz/status...10466798780416

The map is a little confusing because some existing lines are colored like new lines, but my interpretation of that is that Amtrak takes over Flyer operations from Oklahoma and Texas.

[catch22]

https://twitter.com/samjmintz/status...10466798780416

The map is a little confusing because some existing lines are colored like new lines, but my interpretation of that is that Amtrak takes over Flyer operations from Oklahoma and Texas.

Do you mean funding? Because Amtrak operates the route but OK/TX provides the funds.

[Mott]

Do you mean funding? Because Amtrak operates the route but OK/TX provides the funds.

Amtrak runs all intercity trains, and they are not going to run OKC-TUL, on a 25mph dark railroad, that means no signal protection for non railroaders.

[shawnw]

Do you mean funding? Because Amtrak operates the route but OK/TX provides the funds.

yes

[Snowman]

I wonder if they are referring to expansions of service frequency, since there are very few new lines actually proposed on that map

[Snowman]

https://twitter.com/samjmintz/status...10466798780416

The map is a little confusing because some existing lines are colored like new lines, but my interpretation of that is that Amtrak takes over Flyer operations from Oklahoma and Texas.

It almost looks like they got the colors on the Heartland flyer backwards, with the expansion is shown as an old route, and the existing service colored like it will be a new extention.

[Plutonic Panda]

It almost looks like they got the colors on the Heartland flyer backwards, with the expansion is shown as an old route, and the existing service colored like it will be a new extention.

my thoughts as well. Here is a link with a PDF presentation

https://www.railpassengers.org/happe...senger-market/

[SEMIweather]

It looks to me like Fort Worth --> OKC is the "2025" line and then OKC --> Newton is the "2030" line

[HOT ROD]

that might be when Amtrak starts funding the lines.

Obviously OKC already has service to FTW (funded by OK-TX) and wants service to Newton (expected to be funded by OK-KS). My interpretation is Amtrak will take over funding of OKC-FTW by 2025 and OKC-KC/Newton by 2030. We definitely already have Vancouver Canada - Seattle - Portland (slated 2035 in twitter) then on to LA already on two routes (Amtrak Cascades and Pacific Starlight).

If only the Trump Admin would implement such a plan (or better/sooner). ..

[baralheia]

that might be when Amtrak starts funding the lines.

Obviously OKC already has service to FTW (funded by OK-TX) and wants service to Newton (expected to be funded by OK-KS). My interpretation is Amtrak will take over funding of OKC-FTW by 2025 and OKC-KC/Newton by 2030. We definitely already have Vancouver Canada - Seattle - Portland (slated 2035 in twitter) then on to LA already on two routes (Amtrak Cascades and Pacific Starlight).

If only the Trump Admin would implement such a plan (or better/sooner). ..

Apologies for the reply to a months-old post, but I'm getting back in the swing of keeping up with OKCTalk again... To clear up any misconceptions: The Passenger Rail Investment and Improvement Act of 2009 (PRIIA) included a mandate to implement a standardized cost-sharing methodology for all Amtrak routes shorter than 750 miles under Section 209. Basically, for routes shorter than 750 miles, the state(s) that the train travels through must share a proportional cost of operating the service. Even if the Heartland Flyer service was expanded up to Newton, KS from it's current terminus of OKC, the total route length would still only be approx. 400 miles - and the current cost sharing structure would still apply, meaning we'd still be on the hook for yearly operational costs. My understanding is Oklahoma's financial share of operating the full route from Ft Worth to Newton via OKC would be a little less than double what it is today, which will likely be a tough sell to lawmakers who hold the purse strings.

Money and political willpower are the two things that are doing the most to hamper progress here. If Biden's infrastructure plan comes to fruition, there'd be a pot of money that Amtrak and states could use to shore up the rail infrastructure between here and Newton, which would certainly lower the barriers to getting this expanded service on track. But as noted above, it will be difficult for lawmakers to stomach the additional yearly operational costs, even despite the projected increase in economic activity (and tax revenues) that would be directly attributable to the service expansion.

Lots of moving pieces and potential roadblocks here. If you want to see the Heartland Flyer service get expanded, then it's imperative that you reach out to your elected representatives on all levels - local, state, and federal. Express your support for the current Heartland Flyer service, investments in passenger rail infrastructure under the American Jobs Plan, and the proposed service extension. Despite being a priority for Amtrak, without local/state buy-in the expansion is very unlikely to happen.

[mugofbeer]

I wish in a longer term plan, they would reroute it from KC to Tulsa to OKC To DFW with a link in Denton so travelers can hop to the light rail into Dallas, airports and future high speed Texas rails.

No offense to Newton but who wants to go there?

[Snowman]

I wish in a longer term plan, they would reroute it from KC to Tulsa to OKC To DFW with a link in Denton so travelers can hop to the light rail into Dallas, airports and future high speed Texas rails.

No offense to Newton but who wants to go there?

Plus unless there is some sort of major rescheduling, the train connection will be meeting in Newton will be around 3AM, in basically the worst possible window of any time for that. KC the train connections should be a much more reasonable 7:30 AM, and if you need to wait there should be much more could do.

[mugofbeer]

I wish in a longer term plan, they would reroute it from KC to Tulsa to OKC To DFW with a link in Denton so travelers can hop to the light rail into Dallas, airports and future high speed Texas rails.

No offense to Newton but who wants to go there?

In fact, you could take this further, reroute the SW Chief awat from Newton and Trinidad, CO to KC, Tulsa, OKC, Amarillo to Albuquerque. Far higher access to ridership.

[Mott]

In fact, you could take this further, reroute the SW Chief awat from Newton and Trinidad, CO to KC, Tulsa, OKC, Amarillo to Albuquerque. Far higher access to ridership.

That would be some train ride. Excellent track on BNSF Chicago to KC, then on the old FRISCO (BNSF) to Ft. Scott, then to Afton, then to Tulsa, then on the SLWC @ 25 to OKC. Now, north to Perry on the BNSF, and with a new connection, west on the old FRISCO to Enid, and Avard, and finally back on the old ATSF mainline to Amarillo.

[Rover]

I wish in a longer term plan, they would reroute it from KC to Tulsa to OKC To DFW with a link in Denton so travelers can hop to the light rail into Dallas, airports and future high speed Texas rails.

No offense to Newton but who wants to go there?

Isn't Newton where it connects to the E/W going to Denver? Plus, Newton is just on the north side of Wichita. Lots of engineering and aerospace connectivity between OKC and Wichita.

[HangryHippo]

I wish in a longer term plan, they would reroute it from KC to Tulsa to OKC To DFW with a link in Denton so travelers can hop to the light rail into Dallas, airports and future high speed Texas rails.

No offense to Newton but who wants to go there?

Agree 100%.

[mugofbeer]

A prior post said money would have to be spent - meaning new track where needed. You want more ridership, you need to bring the trains where the people are. They aren't in Newton, KS, SW Kansas, Trinidad, CO. Especially Newton, KS at 3AM.

[HOT ROD]

the likely argument will be - wait for it. .... that people along the existing route will suffer if they lose it.

but I agree it should be rerouted to connect the major cities. I'd imagine very significant ridership on CHI-KC-TUL-OKC- DFW and OKC-AMA-ABQ. Western OK is more populated than Western KS. ...

Best case scenario is to do the KC-Wichita-OKC-FTW now, then add in KC-TUL-OKC-AMA-ABQ. OKC is the biggest beneficiary with three routes OKC-FTW (which is now), OKC-KC-CHI (likely umcoming), and OKC-ABQ (vision).

How can we make this happen? Significant ridership can be attained imo.

[Rover]

Has an actual fact based demand forecast been done for alternate routes? There are legit ways for obtaining the information. I would think that would be the first step.

[Mott]

The reroute is already being talked about, but it would be Newton (Wichita) to Wellington to Amarillo to Clovis to Belen, then to CA. Because of the cost of maintaining to old ATSF main line over Raton pass to Lamy, and to Albuquerque. Amtrak runs only one train each way, with NM leasing it from the BNSF. On a long distance train, somebody is going to get the train at 3am. Do you expect leaving Chicago at 3 am would be good for ridership? If the Rock Island had been saved you would have a direct route from OKC to Amarillo, and then west on ATSF mainline to CA. If Amtrak’s Lone Star had been saved, ( and I rode it a lot, as well as working as head brakeman, always had lot’s of passengers, purely political not to fund it), we would have a direct train to KC, CH, and south to FW, and Houston. You just can’t run without the rail being in shape, and to fix that, lot’s of money.