Producers Coop

[Jersey Boss]

Pete, speaking of California and them outlawing TIF's. It was suggested by Urbanized that this could have been due to their politics. While that is certainly an understandable position, do you feel that political persuasion was behind outlawing TIF's or could it have been economics? By this I mean because they were first in doing this method of financing, California would have been the first to see problems that became evident as the TIF's expired? Another question is do you see certain developers getting favorable treatment in getting TIF's based on "home cooking"?

[BoulderSooner]

Pete, speaking of California and them outlawing TIF's. It was suggested by Urbanized that this could have been due to their politics. While that is certainly an understandable position, do you feel that political persuasion was behind outlawing TIF's or could it have been economics? By this I mean because they were first in doing this method of financing, California would have been the first to see problems that became evident as the TIF's expired? Another question is do you see certain developers getting favorable treatment in getting TIF's based on "home cooking"?

California also a place where cities are close to bankruptcy or have already filed.

[Pete]

California also a place where cities are close to bankruptcy or have already filed.

The state budget has gone from a huge deficit to a surplus expected to be over $7 billion.

[HOT ROD]

1. The amount of TIF investment thus far in the core is minuscule in comparison to public investment and private investment by those not receiving any public subsidy whatsoever. Like well less than 1%. So absolutely no way you can correlate TIF expenditures to higher property values elsewhere.

2. Schools have only recently been brought to the table regarding future TIF's and have received information that is incomplete and also misleading. I just mentioned that the people involved in the OKC TIF's don't even understand the impact on schools and yet they gave a proposal to City Council (and the schools) that said it worked to their benefit. When I cited that presentation and asked for the background numbers and data to support the claims, I was then told they didn't fully understand how all this works on a state level, where the school allocations are actually made.

Pete, not to discount your thought or dispute in any way - however, Point 1 may very well be why the city/state uses TIF the way they do; if it is true that TIF represents a very small amount of development in the core and we're still getting the volume of self supporting development then why should we restrict/regulate TIF?

I agree there shuold be controls and accountability added to TIF including clawbacks for those who do not deliver within a certain tolerance as was proposed (unless there's approval of a variance). But eliminating TIF might result in a backlash on property tax appreciation/funding far greater than what you're suggesting the normal channels aren't gaining WITH it.

[Pete]

^

Because there have been a ton more TIF districts created and lots more money to be spent in this way.

[Pete]

[5alive]

In some respects I don't like how the RR tracks bisect downtown...

[Anonymous.]

Are you talking about the main north/south viaduct?

There is literally nothing to like about it other than it allows for an amazing potential in a commuter rail setup @ the intermodal hub. But as of now, it has only and still does create a massive divide between Deep Deuce/Bricktown and the CBD/AA. Not only is the viaduct a physical barrier with few passages, the passages it does have are extremely unfriendly for pedestrians and in some places, cars. And do add to the viaduct, you have the monstrosity of EKG directly next to it, quite possibly one of the unfriendliest pedestrians streets in all of downtown.

[David]

Will the long-rumored site renderings ever show? I am starting to wonder.

[ourulz2000]

The last shot looks like a tornado leveled the area south of downtown.

[Plutonic Panda]

Are you talking about the main north/south viaduct?

There is literally nothing to like about it other than it allows for an amazing potential in a commuter rail setup @ the intermodal hub. But as of now, it has only and still does create a massive divide between Deep Deuce/Bricktown and the CBD/AA. Not only is the viaduct a physical barrier with few passages, the passages it does have are extremely unfriendly for pedestrians and in some places, cars. And do add to the viaduct, you have the monstrosity of EKG directly next to it, quite possibly one of the unfriendliest pedestrians streets in all of downtown.

It would be nice if they would make a plan to eventually tunnel the rail lines. I would still like to keep the viaduct, turn into something like the Highline Park in NYC, and then hollow out the bottom of the viaduct, add support structures, and add spaces for living, shops, and restaurants with direct stairway/elevator access to the path above it which could feature patios, and even new smaller structures for cafes or bike repair stations.

[Cam]

Pete, thanks for posting the updated photos. Love seeing the progress down there. Do we know what's planned for this area?

[Pete]

[OKCisOK4me]

If they're not destroying the last few structures then that tells me that a developer plans to remodel them for future use in a yet to be announced project, already in the works but under wraps.

[jonny d]

If they're not destroying the last few structures then that tells me that a developer plans to remodel them for future use in a yet to be announced project, already in the works but under wraps.

Or, the city told them to not demolish a couple until a firm plan is in place.

[yukong]

If they're not destroying the last few structures then that tells me that a developer plans to remodel them for future use in a yet to be announced project, already in the works but under wraps.

I believe all the buildings will be coming down. Just a process they are going through. I had hoped they would save a couple, but I'm told they are all coming down.

[OKCisOK4me]

I believe all the buildings will be coming down. Just a process they are going through. I had hoped they would save a couple, but I'm told they are all coming down.

That's good to hear.

[Pete]

[Pete]

[ABCOKC]

That's good to hear.

This area sure will have a lot more character once it's filled with generic strip shopping centers and architecturally-deficient apartment complexes.

[kevin lee]

Oh ye of little faith. I'm actually hearing they're drawing up plans way more ambitious than those. Im not in the know but I believe they see more potential in this land than that.

[HangryHippo]

Oh ye of little faith. I'm actually hearing they're drawing up plans way more ambitious than those. Im not in the know but I believe they see more potential in this land than that.

I think there’s an article in yesterday’s Journal Record about this development. Maybe warreng will post it for us?

[warreng88]

I think there’s an article in yesterday’s Journal Record about this development. Maybe warreng will post it for us?

Hey Nick, unfortunately, my subscription lapsed so I don’t have access to the website any more.

[catch22]

Hey Nick, unfortunately, my subscription lapsed so I don’t have access to the website any more.

How much? Maybe some of us can chip in? I find what you post very useful, but I don’t read them enough to justify my own.

[HangryHippo]

Hey Nick, unfortunately, my subscription lapsed so I don’t have access to the website any more.

No problem, warren! Like catch said, maybe we could drum up enough to renew it with you as I really appreciated you sharing the articles.