Producers Coop

[yukong]

All of Tulsa is Indian land. The part of the city in Osage County is in the Osage Nation, Tulsa in Tulsa County north of Admiral Blvd(I-244) is Cherokee. Everything south of Admiral, which is by far most of the city, is Creek. Basically the entire metro is Indian land as well.

You are right...I forgot about the Osage component. It is very small compared to the Cherokee and the Muscogee components.

[yukong]

You have a funding foundation base for real Tribal investments. What's prohibiting Tulsa from mega growth and becoming a real 'boom town.'

You can only have so many casinos in one region. The market just isn't there for much more than what is already present. Sadly, the Cherokees and Muscogee Creeks are not as diversified as the Chickasaws. The most diversified tribe is the Chickasaw Nation. They have multiple business operations. And most are extremely successful. The Chickasaw Nation is in the top 5 of the largest employers in the state of Oklahoma.

[BoulderSooner]

No they don't. The BIA does, but not the state.

That is correct. The state has absolutely no say in what land is put in trust. Placing tribal land into trust is done by the secretary of the Department of the Interior acquiring title to property and holding it for the benefit of a Native American tribe or individual tribal members. Tribes do have to enter into compacts with the state to run gaming. But the state has no say on Indian land being put in trust. That is all federal. But only land within the historic boundaries of a tribe can be put in trust. Casinos can only go on “trust” land. Therefore no tribe can put a casino in OKC.

https://www.indianz.com/News/2005/009779.asp

see above link ..

this was the result of the Miami tribe trying to built a casino south of frontier city ..

"The rider removes the mandatory aspect of the acquisition and forces the tribe to go through the two-part determination process for gaming, a move that requires state approval. Tribal officials have always said they planned to work with the state and local communities but the process places an extremely high bar on the casino."

[BoulderSooner]

No they don't. The BIA does, but not the state.

https://www.indianz.com/News/2005/009779.asp

see above link ..

this was the result of the Miami tribe trying to built a casino south of frontier city ..

"The rider removes the mandatory aspect of the acquisition and forces the tribe to go through the two-part determination process for gaming, a move that requires state approval. Tribal officials have always said they planned to work with the state and local communities but the process places an extremely high bar on the casino."

no this is a pretty specific deal and deals with new land a tribe acquires and tries to put in trust status

[Swake]

no this is a pretty specific deal and deals with new land a tribe acquires and tries to put in trust status

That deal was for land outside the national area of a tribe. The Miami tribe has no relationship to land in central Oklahoma and so that IS different. If the Creek Nation for example wants to put land into trust anywhere in it's tribal area, the state has no say.

[Laramie]

You can only have so many casinos in one region. The market just isn't there for much more than what is already present. Sadly, the Cherokees and Muscogee Creeks are not as diversified as the Chickasaws. The most diversified tribe is the Chickasaw Nation. They have multiple business operations. And most are extremely successful. The Chickasaw Nation is in the top 5 of the largest employers in the state of Oklahoma.

Really sounds enthusiastic for those 100 acres.

[yukong]

https://www.indianz.com/News/2005/009779.asp

see above link ..

this was the result of the Miami tribe trying to built a casino south of frontier city ..

"The rider removes the mandatory aspect of the acquisition and forces the tribe to go through the two-part determination process for gaming, a move that requires state approval. Tribal officials have always said they planned to work with the state and local communities but the process places an extremely high bar on the casino."

The exact language of the "rider" you linked to states as follows:

(a) LAND ACQUISITION-
(1) IN GENERAL- The Tribe shall be eligible to have land acquired in trust for its benefit pursuant to section 5 of the Act of June 18, 1934 (48 Stat. 985; 25 U.S.C. 465) and section 1 of the Act of June 26, 1936 (49 Stat. 1967; 25 U.S.C. 501).
(2) CERTAIN LAND IN OKLAHOMA- Notwithstanding any other provision of law but subject to subsection (b), if the Tribe transfers any land within the boundaries of the State of Oklahoma to the Secretary, the Secretary shall take such land into trust for the benefit of the Tribe.

The state has no say in what goes into trust. Any land a tribe transfers to the Secretary of the Interior becomes trust land. The state has no "veto" authority.

[Laramie]

The exact language of the "rider" you linked to states as follows:

(a) LAND ACQUISITION-
(1) IN GENERAL- The Tribe shall be eligible to have land acquired in trust for its benefit pursuant to section 5 of the Act of June 18, 1934 (48 Stat. 985; 25 U.S.C. 465) and section 1 of the Act of June 26, 1936 (49 Stat. 1967; 25 U.S.C. 501).
(2) CERTAIN LAND IN OKLAHOMA- Notwithstanding any other provision of law but subject to subsection (b), if the Tribe transfers any land within the boundaries of the State of Oklahoma to the Secretary, the Secretary shall take such land into trust for the benefit of the Tribe.

The state has no say in what goes into trust. Any land a tribe transfers to the Secretary of the Interior becomes trust land. The state has no "veto" authority.

Wow, so does that mean that any land a tribe acquires and puts into a trust becomes part of the trust and treated the same as tribal land . . . ? ? ?

Closing on the property will enable the Chickasaw Nation subsidiary to begin development of the commercial property, ideally to coincide with completion of AICCM construction.

Chickasaw Nation subsidiary closes on land surrounding AICCM: https://chickasaw.net/News/Press-Rel...oun-46289.aspx

[yukong]

Wow, so does that mean that any land a tribe acquires and puts into a trust becomes part of the trust and treated the same as tribal land . . . ? ? ?


It will not be "trust" land as trust land has to be within the original boundaries. Tribes can also own land in fee...just as you and I can own land in fee. The Chickasaw Nation owns quite a number of parcels of land in the OKC area...but they are not "tribal" lands or "trust" lands. In this instance, the Tribe itself did not "close" on the property. It was a subsidiary of the tribe. A business/company owned by the tribe. Therefore, it is owned by a subsidiary and it cannot be put in trust. Just like they own Remington Park. They are just the owners in "fee" like how you own your house. As I said above, the tribe or subsidiaries of the tribe own land all around OKC. They own the land and building on North Lincoln where they have offices for different departments to serve the tribal citizens in the OKC area. They own the land where they have a bank. And they just bought land along the Kilpatrick Turnpike/Memorial Road west of Rockwell where they are going to build a big building for their bank. They also own the old Sportsman's Country Club site on 39th. They probably own more, but those are the ones I know of off the top of my head. The lands around the First American's Museum will be held in fee. It will not be trust land.

[Laramie]

Thanks for the clarification, Yukong

[Pete]

Here is a somewhat updated site plan from their website.

I don't think anything is happening here anytime soon, but it's interesting to see:

[Anonymous.]

*shudders*

[Plutonic Panda]

I think they should go big box retail with a hybrid suburb/urban design where the less walkable part can be redeveloped in a decade or so. That would satisfy services for the downtown core, allowing those with cars to easily access this development and provide for alternative access to those living in the core who don’t wish to use a car. Anchor it with an IKEA and I guarantee it becomes the most successful retail development in the state.

[Oski]

^^ Just reach out to The Cordish Companies, and let them handle this land.

[Plutonic Panda]

Wow something like that would be amazing

https://www.cordish.com/businesses/i...al-development

[G.Walker]

They should save this area for a future multi-purpose stadium...and develop high density mixed-use around that.

I would hate to see this area turn into a suburban style development like Chisholm Creek or The Half. Something like that, would take away from Bricktown and Strawberryfields. I don't think downtown could support all 3.

[Plutonic Panda]

Downtown can’t support all three which is precisely why I propose more of a suburban type development. Remember it can be redeveloped. Let’s focus on lower bricktown, strawberry fields, and the air park development for quality urban development.

[G.Walker]

What would it take for this area to become its own official district, with design guidelines? It will save from select parcels being bought by single developers and basically building what they want, without any type of guidance or symmetry.

[king183]

Downtown can’t support all three which is precisely why I propose more of a suburban type development. Remember it can be redeveloped. Let’s focus on lower bricktown, strawberry fields, and the air park development for quality urban development.

What is your basis for saying downtown can't support all three, especially given we have no real idea how Strawberry Fields is going to develop?

[G.Walker]

So I guess its the Producer's District? Is it like a an official district with a committee? Are there design guidelines?

[Plutonic Panda]

What is your basis for saying downtown can't support all three, especially given we have no real idea how Strawberry Fields is going to develop?

Strawberry Fields can’t even get off the ground after having been proposed for years. Lower Bricktown is absolutely comical and needs a near complete redevelopment. There are tons of other districts that need to be focused on and more density.

[Oski]

Perhaps we can learn a thing or two from Nashville:

[G.Walker]

^ Your right, Nashville is one of the those cities that doesn't get enough credit. They have really took off in the last decade. The recent & upcoming developments they have in downtown are amazing.

[stlokc]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. OKC does not need another "district."

In my opinion, Midtown is the most interesting and dynamic part of the core because it is developing in a somewhat organic way. (and I know Midtown Renaissance exists and is doing a lot there). But within Midtown there are smaller buildings, bigger buildings, a variety of uses, a variety of architectural styles, little retail corridors, bigger blocks of development etc, etc. Even within Midtown there are years and years and years of existing infill opportunities. It's in the right location because of the existing housing stock in Heritage Hills and points north and northwest.

I look at this map of potential development and think a couple of things:

First, it's likely to possess an architectural sameness that will make it look like a huge corporate entity has just plopped down a bunch of buildings that all match.

Second, it is so ambitious-looking from a size perspective that I can't imagine it would get built as it is anyway, and who would fill the retail and would it be new to market or just take from somewhere else? (Because if it just moves something from Bricktown or the CBD, it's not a net-positive for the city)

Third, it is isolated from the rest of downtown and so will seem really disjointed.

I know that this is a free-market town and country and there's a lot that the city can't force. But I just don't think we need development for the sake of development. Let's focus on the existing, densifying districts - and I would include the strip of Strawberry Fields that fronts the park in that.

Finally, OKC is somewhat unique to have such a large piece of land in the core. Let's let the market mature and decide what the best use for that space is. It might be a stadium, it might be offices, it might be a technology park, it might be a use that will explode into the public consciousness in 2025 or 2030 and we'll be happy to have such a prime location ready.

[Plutonic Panda]

OKC having too many or too little districts makes absolutely no difference. Hell every inch of the city should be classified as a certain district. The issue is demand and one look at the core and around it should tell you what you need to know.