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Thread: Producers Coop

  1. #101

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by BDP View Post
    I'm not sure what it says, but if it does say that, then it's kind of making the case that something should be done with the Mill site.

    Without a coast, mountains, or large population base, appealing development becomes even more important. In a sense, it's the city's only chance to improve its image. Image may seem superficial, but we're talking about people who have to make a decision where to live, work and/or visit based on limited information. Most people can not afford to "test drive" every city to which they may locate by living in it for a period of time. So, image, polls, raw data, etc. make a real difference. Of course, when there's a poll with data that people don't like, they will always dismiss it as biased. But, if we're being honest with ourselves, do we really think that OKC has a better image than the cities listed above it in the survey and that it's just a flawed survey? Of course, the oil mill and its smell does not create this image on its own, but could very well reinforce a negative image if and when someone does visit the city.

    I'm not saying that Oklahoma City isn't a better place to live than those cities, but I can't imagine that even the most objective poll would show that it has a better reputation or perceived image than most of those cities. And I think the first step to changing that is to recognize it as a real problem and work to reverse it. In fact, I think that is the entire reason MAPS was started in the first place and why those original architects of the plan were able to begin to concretely take steps through development to begin to reverse years of erosion, both literally and in the public perception. Without a lot of natural features that are attractive to people when deciding where to live, we essentially have to build a great city through exceptional development. And I don't necessarily think it had to be BIG development, just good development that creates a place that is attractive to people seeking many different kinds of lifestyles.

    So, with that in mind, I think the Oil Mill site is probably going to be a part of the equation at some point. However, with it currently being a working and viable business and with all the other development opportunities sill left within Oklahoma City's core, it may be awhile before it becomes an economically feasible redevelopment project. If we were to a point where major downtown developments could only be made possible by relocating existing businesses and clearing sites, then I think we'd have to look at ways to orchestrate it, if the market couldn't handle it on its own. If and when redevelopment does happen, there are actually a lot of good examples of how formally industrial areas have been re-purposed into popular destinations for living, working, and playing. Cities must always look ahead to stay relevant and these types of projects have been a big part of how many of the more favorable cities have done just that. However, as much as I like to see the Oil Mill and its stench make an early exit, I'm just not sure what current factors would make that imminent.
    Excellent post!

    If you don't think OKC has a negative image, spend some time on the City-Data national forum or even the state forum. That forum is populated mostly by upwardly mobile, creative twentysomethings seeking to relocate - the demographic that OKC wants to be in the running for. Most people from the coasts visit OKC already having a negative bias based on stereotype and things like the Oil Mill, as well as the miles of scrapyards along I-40 in both directions from downtown help confirm that bias. I have long though that OKC needs to do more to compensate for not having great natural geography. Little things, often considered superficial, are important. It's not just about image either. A more visually appealing city will increase the quality of life for all residents.

  2. #102

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    I'm sure this is very colored by the recession and only goes up to 2010, but kind of fun to play with:

    American Migration [Interactive Map] - Forbes

    Based on these patterns Detroit, Cleveland, and Philly had some nasty negative migrations numbers between 2005 and 2010. Austin's flipped from net inbound to outbound in that time. And Oklahoma City's flipped from net outbound, to net inbound. However, given the resurgence in the last four years of the traditionally popular cities, this data seems kind of dated already.

    EDIT:

    Yep, more recent data shows a lot of cities hit worst in migration during the recession are making a comeback:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotk...ns-are-moving/

  3. #103

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by BDP View Post
    I'm sure this is very colored by the recession and only goes up to 2010, but kind of fun to play with:

    American Migration [Interactive Map] - Forbes

    Based on these patterns Detroit, Cleveland, and Philly had some nasty negative migrations numbers between 2005 and 2010. Austin's flipped from net inbound to outbound in that time. And Oklahoma City's flipped from net outbound, to net inbound. However, given the resurgence in the last four years of the traditionally popular cities, this data seems kind of dated already.

    EDIT:

    Yep, more recent data shows a lot of cities hit worst in migration during the recession are making a comeback:

    Where Americans Are Moving - Forbes
    Ok, this one makes sense. If you are single, Dallas & Austin might be your place, but if you are married w/ children, OKC is the place to be.

  4. #104

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    Excellent post!

    If you don't think OKC has a negative image, spend some time on the City-Data national forum or even the state forum. That forum is populated mostly by upwardly mobile, creative twentysomethings seeking to relocate - the demographic that OKC wants to be in the running for. Most people from the coasts visit OKC already having a negative bias based on stereotype and things like the Oil Mill, as well as the miles of scrapyards along I-40 in both directions from downtown help confirm that bias. I have long though that OKC needs to do more to compensate for not having great natural geography. Little things, often considered superficial, are important. It's not just about image either. A more visually appealing city will increase the quality of life for all residents.
    All cities have "ugly" locations, but you cant see them because they have tall pines to hide behind, ...or they have hills to hide their views by sinking in the valleys.

    Why dont we plant the Tall Pines all along our major corridors? From Yukon to Choctaw, From Norman to Edmond. Newcastle to Turner Turnpike on I-44. They grow quickly, they won't be blowing leaves. Along the Oklahoma River? ...much better than lookng at our metal buildings.

  5. #105

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    Excellent post!

    If you don't think OKC has a negative image, spend some time on the City-Data national forum or even the state forum. That forum is populated mostly by upwardly mobile, creative twentysomethings seeking to relocate - the demographic that OKC wants to be in the running for. Most people from the coasts visit OKC already having a negative bias based on stereotype and things like the Oil Mill, as well as the miles of scrapyards along I-40 in both directions from downtown help confirm that bias. I have long though that OKC needs to do more to compensate for not having great natural geography. Little things, often considered superficial, are important. It's not just about image either. A more visually appealing city will increase the quality of life for all residents.
    I'm sorry, but you're so bipolar on some of your views its silly. Not too long ago City-Data got brought up in a different thread, and you were in agreement with everyone else that the people on that forum are a bunch of East/West coast folks with an elitist mentality that nowhere in the middle of the country is worth living. Now you're saying its full of upwardly mobile creative 20 somethings? The majority of the posts on that site are people spewing the usual stereotypes that have no clue what they're talking about. If someone is to take what the clowns on City-Data say as fact than every city in the US that isn't in the NE or the Pacific NW is trash and is miserable to live in.

    Article after article and study after study come out showing that OKC has been one of the top 10-20 cities in the US for millennial migration the last five years. I think OKC is doing just fine. I'm not going to lose sleep at night because a bunch of elitist kids who grew up in Manhattan and went to Harvard or Yale don't think that OKC would be a good place to live.

    Sorry for the rant. I'm not saying the city shouldn't continue to improve it's image, but with how some people talk you would think we were hemorrhaging young people left and right.

  6. #106

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    I too wonder how in-migration to OKC will hold up as cities that are perceived as more desirable begin to recover from the recession. I probably wouldn't be in OKC right now if it wasn't for my own unique circumstances and the fact the job market here was virtually unscathed compared to most of the country. From articles I've seen it seems to be holding up. Does anybody have any more recent data? The single vs married thing is a sore spot for me about OKC so I won't go there. I'll say I think there is progress being made.

  7. #107

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    The single vs married thing is a sore spot for me about OKC
    One among many.

  8. #108

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    All cities have "ugly" locations, but you cant see them because they have tall pines to hide behind, ...or they have hills to hide their views by sinking in the valleys.

    Why dont we plant the Tall Pines all along our major corridors? From Yukon to Choctaw, From Norman to Edmond. Newcastle to Turner Turnpike on I-44. They grow quickly, they won't be blowing leaves. Along the Oklahoma River? ...much better than lookng at our metal buildings.
    I would love to see tall pines planted throughout the metro, but they wouldn't hold up very long due to our ice storms. Personally I think semi-arid landscaping is the way to go, similar to what you see in the Wichita Mtns in Southwest Oklahoma. Cedars, various shrubs, cactus, etc along with more redbuds, post oak, and blackjack oak.

  9. #109

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    I would love to see tall pines planted throughout the metro, but they wouldn't hold up very long due to our ice storms. Personally I think semi-arid landscaping is the way to go, similar to what you see in the Wichita Mtns in Southwest Oklahoma. Cedars, various shrubs, cactus, etc along with more redbuds, post oak, and blackjack oak.
    I like that too! It's time to make this place worth looking at! The entire metro needs (major corridors) needs to be on the same plane, providing the same desired results. Our image would begin to equal our friendliness.

    Tall Pines would still work, as they are linear & carry the tall height needed for cover. ( if we get too much ice, all the trees are coming down, lol)

  10. #110

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    All cities have "ugly" locations, but you cant see them because they have tall pines to hide behind, ...or they have hills to hide their views by sinking in the valleys.

    Why dont we plant the Tall Pines all along our major corridors? From Yukon to Choctaw, From Norman to Edmond. Newcastle to Turner Turnpike on I-44. They grow quickly, they won't be blowing leaves. Along the Oklahoma River? ...much better than lookng at our metal buildings.
    People like to forget that right across the river from Tulsa's downtown is a huge expanse of ugly, smelly refineries that are going absolutely nowhere.

    Not calling out Tulsa, just providing an example of how most cities have big, ugly things near their downtowns. OKC actually has less than most.

  11. #111

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    People like to forget that right across the river from Tulsa's downtown is a huge expanse of ugly, smelly refineries that are going absolutely nowhere.

    Not calling out Tulsa, just providing an example of how most cities have big, ugly things near their downtowns. OKC actually has less than most.
    Precisely. The refineries in Tulsa are in view, but they get "hidden" from the hills they have there. So they get overlooked.

    The OKC Metro could use a healthy dose of trees ( to limit ) our ugly visuals. The Carolina's have the Tall Pines / Houston has the tall pines / Florida has them too. They are cheap and readily available. This would be a huge help.

  12. #112

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Oklahoma (Central -> West) doesn't have many trees for a reason. We don't get enough rain for them. Artificially building forests would dry up our water table and disrupt ecosystems and wildlife. Nothing is wrong with some trees in landscaping and streetscaping, but I'd vote no on planting forests in Central and Western Oklahoma. We have some excellent forests just to the east of us. (In fact, OKC is right on the dividing line between Green Forests and Mountains, and the rolling plains and desert. Maybe we should capitalize on that. Not many places have such a night and day difference in topography.

  13. #113

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    Oklahoma (Central -> West) doesn't have many trees for a reason. We don't get enough rain for them. Artificially building forests would dry up our water table and disrupt ecosystems and wildlife. Nothing is wrong with some trees in landscaping and streetscaping, but I'd vote no on planting forests in Central and Western Oklahoma. We have some excellent forests just to the east of us. (In fact, OKC is right on the dividing line between Green Forests and Mountains, and the rolling plains and desert. Maybe we should capitalize on that. Not many places have such a night and day difference in topography.
    Well, then let's meet in the middle on this and plant more trees along the major corridors in the OKC Metro.

  14. #114

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Speaking of trees, how many of you OKC residents know that the City of OKC gives away free trees each year? One per home... even if you live in an apartment. So, keep an eye out for the announcement of the next giveaway, and make sure you order your tree and plant it (give it to a friend to plant if you live in an apt).

  15. #115

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by shawnw View Post
    Speaking of trees, how many of you OKC residents know that the City of OKC gives away free trees each year? One per home... even if you live in an apartment. So, keep an eye out for the announcement of the next giveaway, and make sure you order your tree and plant it (give it to a friend to plant if you live in an apt).
    Even if you're in an apartment? Do you have a link for this?

  16. #116

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Great OKC Tree Give-Away

    Looks like last year's give-away was targeted at folks that had storm damage, but I am pretty sure the previous years were not limited like that.

  17. #117

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    Great OKC Tree Give-Away

    Looks like last year's give-away was targeted at folks that had storm damage, but I am pretty sure the previous years were not limited like that.
    Thanks, David.

  18. #118

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Yeah previous years weren't limited...

  19. #119

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    What is wrong with people seeing the Producers Cooperative Oil Mill? It shows we have industry here besides the mostly hidden oil and gas business. And having a cluster of tall buildings in not an industry.

  20. #120

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by UnclePete View Post
    What is wrong with people seeing the Producers Cooperative Oil Mill? It shows we have industry here besides the mostly hidden oil and gas business. And having a cluster of tall buildings in not an industry.
    A thriving diverse economy is what we want, but the Mill is just holding up other real estate opportunities from outside sources / investment groups.

    This would be perfect for High Tech Research Park / Energy Technologies Center & Corporate Plaza ...etc.

  21. #121

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    whiskey tango foxtrot?
    The property was listed for sale a few years ago. No one wanted it at the asking price. A thriving industry continues to operate on the proeprty. Unlike some other areas in the city, this is not privately held land that is idle and/or rotting away for a day down the road. It's not in anyone's way except the folks who somehow get this notion they have more to say about how a long time property, being used as it has been for decades, is not a good use of the property by the owner.

    One might ponder how such folks might react if a Devon or a COOP or some other industry felt the same way about their residential subdivision.

  22. #122

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    And here I thought we were mostly just discussing the potential uses of the property after someone buys it and the coop moves to the old Firestone plant.

  23. #123

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    A thriving diverse economy is what we want, but the Mill is just holding up other real estate opportunities from outside sources / investment groups.

    This would be perfect for High Tech Research Park / Energy Technologies Center & Corporate Plaza ...etc.
    If Tom Ward is "looking" at Midtown and/or Bricktown, why wouldn't he look at this also? ....maybe Tapstone and a couple of his friends could make this an Energy Corp Plaza?

  24. #124

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    No more corporate campuses please

  25. #125

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    I hear ya. But the location would be perfect for that. It would be so many new jobs to the downtown distrct and more demand for Mid / High Rise Residential.

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