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Thread: Producers Coop

  1. #76

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    Sorry, but cities like Detroit don't have a reputation as being the best or most desirable places to live either. One could say OKC in the '80s was the Detroit of the Great Plains and the city is finally coming back from that, but Detroit is nothing to aspire to, despite its history. The Co-op does nothing to add character. It only adds smell, blight, and lowers property values around it. You are right, its probably not going anywhere for at least a decade, but that doesn't mean people can't post their opinions about it on a website.
    LOL, of course you use the ONE city with a bad rap, but I listed SEVERAL of just a FEW cities that have great reputations, more culutural life than OKC, AND have industrial "blight" in the urban core. Do you compare NYC to Detroit? Yes Detroit has SERIOIUS issues, but regardless, IS STILL a more urban city with more to do than OKC does NOW!

  2. #77

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    The local commercial lending should be drooling all over this. This is the lowest risk w/ the Greatest Upside in Oklahoma. $1-2B, ... Energy Center w/ the Energy Tower of 1,000 ft. ???? The Anara Tower, perfect.
    Too bad OKC doesn't have an NFL team because this would be the ultimate site for a stadium. I mean perfect! Lets get those Raiders to come on down and lets get a special maps and build that stadium. That would spur all kinds of development.

  3. #78

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Stadiums of the NFL and MLB caliber don't always spur development. They are so large and have so much parking around them...

  4. Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    I think the industrial blight on the north side of the new I-40 alignment between Western and May is much more pronounced than the COOP. The COOP is actually sortof interesting to a lot of people, I think. It's unusual looking and difficult to identify the function if you don't know what you're looking at. I'm not sure what stereotypes it (or any industrial use) confirms for visitors though; most of them are probably expecting cows in fields, not industry. If you're saying it confirms their agricultural stereotypes, I say no way, because again, they don't know the purpose of that building.

    I will agree about the odor. As someone who offices in Bricktown I am probably exposed to it more than most, and it can be a little much at times, but it's not THAT often. In my experience it happens more when there is only a slight breeze (not the wind we usually have) and normally when it is blowing from the SE, which is also unusual. Beyond, that, I think it is seasonal (which would make sense due to the product). Maybe 10-20 days a year do I notice it, if that.

    That said, I would love to see a great redevelopment project, if only for what it would do for downtown and Bricktown.
    NOTICE: I WORK FOR A DOWNTOWN TOURIST ATTRACTION

  5. #80

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    LOL, of course you use the ONE city with a bad rap, but I listed SEVERAL of just a FEW cities that have great reputations, more culutural life than OKC, AND have industrial "blight" in the urban core. Do you compare NYC to Detroit? Yes Detroit has SERIOIUS issues, but regardless, IS STILL a more urban city with more to do than OKC does NOW!
    Most of the rust belt has a very negative perception. OKC is embarassingly one of only two cities in the Southern half of the United States with such a bad image. Only Detroit, Cleveland, and Birmingham are perceived as being worse than OKC. If this city wants to improve its image - and its a must if it wasn't to see a real boom - then following the example of the rustbelt is not the answer.


  6. #81

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    A soccer stadium would be cool.

  7. #82

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    An NFL stadium doesn't have to be surrounding by surface parking. The Bank of America stadium in Charlotte is serviced by a huge parking garage and integrates very well into the urban fabric of uptown Charlotte.

  8. #83

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    An NFL stadium doesn't have to be surrounding by surface parking. The Bank of America stadium in Charlotte is serviced by a huge parking garage and integrates very well into the urban fabric of uptown Charlotte.
    Agreed, that's why I said "don't always" instead of never. But I'm not sure how much faith I'd have in us "doing it right" in this case. Plus, NFL for OKC is somewhere between NBA All-Star game and Olympics, so we've got plenty to do before we worry about that anyway...

  9. #84

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    Most of the rust belt has a very negative perception. OKC is embarassingly one of only two cities in the Southern half of the United States with such a bad image. Only Detroit, Cleveland, and Birmingham are perceived as being worse than OKC. If this city wants to improve its image - and its a must if it wasn't to see a real boom - then following the example of the rustbelt is not the answer.

    Ok, when was the poll taken and by whom?

  10. #85

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    That's not a poll, it's an unsourced map with dots.

  11. #86

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    Ok, when was the poll taken and by whom?
    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    That's not a poll, it's an unsourced map with dots.
    Do Rankings Affect Our Opinions of Cities? - Samuel Arbesman - The Atlantic Cities

  12. Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Basically all that map proves is that if your city isn't near the east or west coast, the mountains, or has a population under 2 million people, it will be negatively perceived.

  13. #88

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by shawnw View Post
    Agreed, that's why I said "don't always" instead of never. But I'm not sure how much faith I'd have in us "doing it right" in this case. Plus, NFL for OKC is somewhere between NBA All-Star game and Olympics, so we've got plenty to do before we worry about that anyway...
    I would say the NFL is more likely than an NBA All-Star game. Both are far more achievable than the Olympics.

  14. Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Read the story, the people used were from an Amazon mechanism. Amazon is Headquartered in Seattle. They don't like OKC in Seattle....... Also, Seattle was voted # 1.... that'll tell you were the majority of their responders were from....not saying anything bad about Seattle, but you can tell it's weighted.

  15. #90

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Pretty obvious that this data is biased and shouldn't be used in this discussion.

  16. Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    You realize Victory Park is considered a disaster in modern redevelopment don't you? They are spending over $100 million to "fix" it.

    The Failure of Victory Park - D Magazine

    Do-over of Victory Park expected to cost around $100 million | Dallas Morning News
    Again, never said it was perfect, but growing up in DFW and having firsthand experience of what that property looked like beforehand makes me appreciate it a bit more. And $100M in improvements to a multi-billion dollar economic development is fairly minor.....Especially considering we have all been disappointed in that same amount for development of the Stage Center site.

  17. #92

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    I think I would rather have this area developed into a dense, mixed neighborhood of some sort rather than a sports arena, with residential, retail, some offices and entertainment. It has great access to the river and trails [perhaps via a pedestrian bridge(s) over I-40?] and Bricktown, providing that the new boulevard is pedestrian friendly. Just throwing ideas out there because I think this land could be better used as another downtown neighborhood to contribute to the core's growing urban fabric while also offering another option for urban residential living.

  18. #93

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    BChris, if you think that this site is such an overwhelming eyesore to the downtown area, then I don't know why you speak so highly of KC's DT in other threads. KC's DT core is completely surrounded to the N and to the W by industrial facilities on the other side of the river. And a lot of those are a lot gritter looking than this.

    But I do agree that this is a prime area for development, and hopefully within the next 5-10 years. A poster above mentioned Aubrey's new company building a complex on this site, and I couldn't help but think about what it would look like if he had built the entire CHK campus on this location!

  19. #94

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by PhiAlpha View Post
    Basically all that map proves is that if your city isn't near the east or west coast, the mountains, or has a population under 2 million people, it will be negatively perceived.
    Yeah pretty much. Heck, even Minneapolis and SLC have negative ratings on that map.

  20. #95

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by PWitty View Post
    BChris, if you think that this site is such an overwhelming eyesore to the downtown area, then I don't know why you speak so highly of KC's DT in other threads. KC's DT core is completely surrounded to the N and to the W by industrial facilities on the other side of the river. And a lot of those are a lot gritter looking than this.

    But I do agree that this is a prime area for development, and hopefully within the next 5-10 years. A poster above mentioned Aubrey's new company building a complex on this site, and I couldn't help but think about what it would look like if he had built the entire CHK campus on this location!
    In Kansas City dirty industry is not in such a prime and visible location. There is nothing that I am aware of in the immediate core. What we have in OKC would be equivalent to having it right across from the Sprint Center for all to see. It's also not like it's an entire industrial district either. It's one plant surrounded by some of the most prime development land in the state of Oklahoma. It's very visible from I-40 and the Peake.

  21. #96

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by KayneMo View Post
    I think I would rather have this area developed into a dense, mixed neighborhood of some sort rather than a sports arena, with residential, retail, some offices and entertainment. It has great access to the river and trails [perhaps via a pedestrian bridge(s) over I-40?] and Bricktown, providing that the new boulevard is pedestrian friendly. Just throwing ideas out there because I think this land could be better used as another downtown neighborhood to contribute to the core's growing urban fabric while also offering another option for urban residential living.
    Dense is the key. High-end Residential would work well too. As long as it is done correctly w/ ( either Corporate "Energy Plaza" or High End Residential ) would look great!

    I agree, a stadium could fit, but this is not the best use for this location.

  22. #97

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    In Kansas City dirty industry is not in such a prime and visible location. There is nothing that I am aware of in the immediate core. What we have in OKC would be equivalent to having it right across from the Sprint Center for all to see. It's also not like it's an entire industrial district either. It's one plant surrounded by some of the most prime development land in the state of Oklahoma. It's very visible from I-40 and the Peake.
    Then I guess you've never driven into downtown KC from either I-670 or Highway 169 from the west. I don't see how one industrial facility near DT is as bad as a huge "industrial district", as you described, adjacent to DT. I don't think either is bad, I'm just comparing it to this situation. And I wouldn't say this site is in the immediate core, it is on the far SE part of the DT area.

  23. #98

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by Bellaboo View Post
    Read the story, the people used were from an Amazon mechanism. Amazon is Headquartered in Seattle. They don't like OKC in Seattle....... Also, Seattle was voted # 1.... that'll tell you were the majority of their responders were from....not saying anything bad about Seattle, but you can tell it's weighted.
    If Norman ran a "poll" on favorite cities, would Austin be in the bottom 5? This poll of 310 votes, in one location...."TILT".

  24. #99

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by PhiAlpha View Post
    Basically all that map proves is that if your city isn't near the east or west coast, the mountains, or has a population under 2 million people, it will be negatively perceived.
    I'm not sure what it says, but if it does say that, then it's kind of making the case that something should be done with the Mill site.

    Without a coast, mountains, or large population base, appealing development becomes even more important. In a sense, it's the city's only chance to improve its image. Image may seem superficial, but we're talking about people who have to make a decision where to live, work and/or visit based on limited information. Most people can not afford to "test drive" every city to which they may locate by living in it for a period of time. So, image, polls, raw data, etc. make a real difference. Of course, when there's a poll with data that people don't like, they will always dismiss it as biased. But, if we're being honest with ourselves, do we really think that OKC has a better image than the cities listed above it in the survey and that it's just a flawed survey? Of course, the oil mill and its smell does not create this image on its own, but could very well reinforce a negative image if and when someone does visit the city.

    I'm not saying that Oklahoma City isn't a better place to live than those cities, but I can't imagine that even the most objective poll would show that it has a better reputation or perceived image than most of those cities. And I think the first step to changing that is to recognize it as a real problem and work to reverse it. In fact, I think that is the entire reason MAPS was started in the first place and why those original architects of the plan were able to begin to concretely take steps through development to begin to reverse years of erosion, both literally and in the public perception. Without a lot of natural features that are attractive to people when deciding where to live, we essentially have to build a great city through exceptional development. And I don't necessarily think it had to be BIG development, just good development that creates a place that is attractive to people seeking many different kinds of lifestyles.

    So, with that in mind, I think the Oil Mill site is probably going to be a part of the equation at some point. However, with it currently being a working and viable business and with all the other development opportunities sill left within Oklahoma City's core, it may be awhile before it becomes an economically feasible redevelopment project. If we were to a point where major downtown developments could only be made possible by relocating existing businesses and clearing sites, then I think we'd have to look at ways to orchestrate it, if the market couldn't handle it on its own. If and when redevelopment does happen, there are actually a lot of good examples of how formally industrial areas have been re-purposed into popular destinations for living, working, and playing. Cities must always look ahead to stay relevant and these types of projects have been a big part of how many of the more favorable cities have done just that. However, as much as I like to see the Oil Mill and its stench make an early exit, I'm just not sure what current factors would make that imminent.

  25. #100

    Default Re: Producers Cooperative Oil Mill

    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    If Norman ran a "poll" on favorite cities, would Austin be in the bottom 5? This poll of 310 votes, in one location...."TILT".
    The reality is that this kind of poll is taken constantly. A simple look at where people migrate and visit will give a pretty clear indication of what cities are favored.

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