Producers Coop

[Pete]

I seriously doubt many/any cities have some big complex like this in the urban core.

THAT is unique and this could have been something very, very cool.

[d-usa]

We have talked about how much work it will be to just make the dirt safe for human activity in that area, I can do without trying to create living spaces out of the storage buildings that contained the greatest concentrations of industrial materials.

[Pete]

I don't think the silos ever contained anything other than the cotton seed hulls.

And as I stated before, lots of these things have been repurposed.

[ABCOKC]

Nah... OKC has plenty of sheet metal buildings. If this is considered important architecture or heritage in OKC, we set our bar very, very low. It was smelly and an eyesore and has been for years. We might have a chance to clean the site up and do something to create more life and vibrancy in our core. Not all old is valuable.

Lol. It doesn't have to be considered important architecture to be worth redeveloping into something interesting and unique.

[jccouger]

I think we can all agree that it would have at least been nice to see what we are gonna get in its place before they tore everything down.

[HangryHippo]

I think we can all agree that it would have at least been nice to see what we are gonna get in its place before they tore everything down.

Now this I agree with.

[Pete]

[Pete]

[OKCRT]

Every time I see a pic of that site I think perfect place for a nice new CC Hotel Complex. Hands down the best place in the downtown area IMO.

[HangryHippo]

Every time I see a pic of that site I think perfect place for a nice new CC Hotel Complex. Hands down the best place in the downtown area IMO.

Me too. Would’ve been perfect.

[Pete]

[Rover]

As it gets cleared it becomes much more obvious how large this site is and how long it may take to fully develop. It is a large area to hope for dense urban development. I imagine it will have to be eaten slowly and a bite at a time.

[Ross MacLochness]

As it gets cleared it becomes much more obvious how large this site is and how long it may take to fully develop. It is a large area to hope for dense urban development. I imagine it will have to be eaten slowly and a bite at a time.

As it should be! I think it would be much better in the long run for such a huge parcel to be developed bit by bit rather than one huge masterplanned unit.

[betts]

I spent a few days in Kansas City last week and, after seeing what they did with the Power and Light district, I wish we could look forward to something similar. I'm guessing they're fairly similar in size, and it is full of high rise housing, restaurants, bars, an open air music venue. Not much retail, and, of course they have the arena to anchor it, albeit without a professional team.

[Geographer]

The Panther Island concept in Fort Worth is another good comparable for what this area should be in terms of the right mix of density and proximity to the CBD.

http://www.trinityrivervision.org/pr...panther-island

[Urbanized]

I spent a few days in Kansas City last week and, after seeing what they did with the Power and Light district, I wish we could look forward to something similar. I'm guessing they're fairly similar in size, and it is full of high rise housing, restaurants, bars, an open air music venue. Not much retail, and, of course they have the arena to anchor it, albeit without a professional team.

Replicating Power and Light would require massive public subsidy - just like the massive public subsidy that P&L received - and while that development looks great to a casual visitor it is far from an unqualified success: http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...76#post1014976

What that article also fails to mention is the negative financial and other impacts experienced by existing, previously successful KC districts. Is it really good economic development for the city if it’s merely a shell game transferring the same entertainment dollar from one district to another?

Also KC’s downtown was completely dead before P&L. Development of that district was essentially their version of MAPS, and their city’s associated debt load certainly bears this out. OKC is not nearly so desperate for success, with mostly organic growth occurring downtown at a pretty quick pace at this point, and with very little municipal debt involved.

In the case of the cotton mill, its proximity to existing districts makes it possible to benefit the rest of downtown a bit more easily. Of course, successful redevelopment of the cotton mill probably WILL require SOME public participation. But instead of mortgaging the future and going all-in like KC did with P&L (with some after-the-fact regret) OKC needs to be a bit more thoughtful with the approach we take, and to better integrate with an existing, already-booming downtown.

[Rover]

Thank you Urbanized. You always seem to be the voice of reason.

[hoya]

I think the best plan here is to extend the canal into this area (the canal as it is in Bricktown, where it follows straight lines and streets, not as it is in Lower Bricktown, where it wanders and meanders). Establish some pretty strict design guidelines, and adhere to them. Then put in some large anchor developments -- apartment buildings, a few hotels, some retail. If you can get some kind of destination attraction, that would be great too. Probably concentrate the construction on the land nearest the boulevard, so that people will cross over from Lower Bricktown. Then you gradually work your way south.

The whole property doesn't need to be developed all at once. I don't know that OKC could absorb that much new development. Let it grow naturally like Deep Deuce and Bricktown have. If you start with something the quality and scale of what Bricktown has added in the last 5 years or so -- the Steelyard, the Criterion, AC Hotel/Hyatt Place, Springhill Suites, you'd have a nice base to work with. From there you just let it fill in naturally. Better to let it take some time, I think, than to risk everything on a roll of the dice.

[bchris02]

I spent a few days in Kansas City last week and, after seeing what they did with the Power and Light district, I wish we could look forward to something similar. I'm guessing they're fairly similar in size, and it is full of high rise housing, restaurants, bars, an open air music venue. Not much retail, and, of course they have the arena to anchor it, albeit without a professional team.

I was in Kansas City in September and I thought the same thing. It's also very similar to the Epicentre in Charlotte. Interestingly, the competing developer for Lower Bricktown (who lost to Randy Hogan) was the same developer who did the P&L district. In my personal opinion, Lower Bricktown is easily one of the biggest screwups in post-urban renewal OKC development history and I really hope that the city doesn't repeat the same mistakes with the Producer's Co-op. It will be much better in the long run to do it right even if it means filling in more slowly.

I would say the River Market district in Kansas City was the most impressive. I really wish that OKC had something similar, even if on a smaller scale. Maybe someday the Farmer's Market area can become something like that.

[Urbanized]

Oops haha. My link in the longwinded post up thread was to the wrong thing (can you guess what else I was thinking of replying to? �� )

The correct link demonstrating that the Power and Light District, while popular, is not an unqualified success for KC is here: http://amp.kansascity.com/news/polit...le9530081.html

There are many, many other articles pointing out some things about P&L that are problematic for KC, but I'll spare everyone. Feel free to Google.

[bchris02]

If something like the P&L district was to be attempted here, I think the Cox Center block is where it should happen, NOT the Producer's Co-op. That kind of development on the other hand would be perfect for the Cox block and could help bridge the gap between Bricktown and the CBD, which will see a huge shot in the arm when First National Center's revitalization is complete. A lot of cities have similar developments with various levels of public incentives. Charlotte has the Epicentre and Louisville has 4th Street Live.

It is a good question though in terms of what kind of impact a P&L-like district would have had on OKC if that would have been done in Lower Bricktown (something that was very close to happening). Would there have been the kind of incentive and drive to invest in revitalizing places such as Midtown, Uptown, and the Plaza district?

[Rover]

For years OKC suffered from too many separate development agendas. No area could gain critical mass and therefore we have many, many commercial, residential, business areas in OKC and not a few fully developed ones. There is only so much new development economically that can be successful here without significant increase in population and/or gdp increase. Neither is likely soon. Therefore, the more new development areas we have, the more it will drain existing or other proposed areas. We will again be in danger of doing a whole lot of things half way but not a few things well. We love to cannibalize and marginalize what we have or want to do.

[bchris02]

For years OKC suffered from too many separate development agendas. No area could gain critical mass and therefore we have many, many commercial, residential, business areas in OKC and not a few fully developed ones. There is only so much new development economically that can be successful here without significant increase in population and/or gdp increase. Neither is likely soon. Therefore, the more new development areas we have, the more it will drain existing or other proposed areas. We will again be in danger of doing a whole lot of things half way but not a few things well. We love to cannibalize and marginalize what we have or want to do.

You have some great points here and I agree with them. This is one thing that is concerning about Core 2 Shore/Strawberry Fields and the Wheeler District. Does OKC really have the population to sustain all of these districts/development areas? This city already has more than most of its peer cities yet they all fall short one way or another. To me, it would make more sense to focus on continuing to develop and improve Film Row, Midtown, Uptown/Paseo, fixing Lower Bricktown (Producer's Co-Op can be part of this), and bridging the gap between the CBD and Midtown. The streetcar corridor should be a priority. I think it would be much better for OKC to have a few awesome urban districts as opposed to twice as many "meh" ones.

[u50254082]

I don't work downtown anymore so it's not an issue now, but I won't miss the smell of that place when it was running full steam. Hooey it was a distinct odor.

[Laramie]

Once cleared and environmental cleaned; those 37-43 acres will be primed for development. It will take someone with deep pockets to develop this area should it be sectioned into parcels of 6 to 7 acre tracks.