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Thread: Producers Coop

  1. #226

    Default Re: Producers Coop

    The tough thing about this site is that 1) it first needs the Lumberyard property to be developed and 2) developing a small part of the 30 acres still means you'd been among a very ugly industrial area; or a desolate area if the buildings have been scraped.

    It almost requires a big, master development, not a parceling off of smaller pieces.

    And since the coop is seemingly in no hurry to do anything, I wouldn't expect them to sell unless they get a good price, which is going to be hard to get in the current situation.

  2. #227

    Default Re: Producers Coop

    Is there any way to add ramps for entrance and exits to the new boulevard? If you can't access it, it seems that there is no way to get a lot of cars in and out of that area. Qualcomm stadium in San Diego only has one main road for all the traffic and it does well and I doubt it is any bigger than the one under construction along the Coop.

  3. #228

    Default Re: Producers Coop

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    It almost requires a big, master development, not a parceling off of smaller pieces.
    Maybe this could be the Lower Bricktown do-over.

  4. #229

    Default Re: Producers Coop

    Why not develop the lumbaryard as the convention center hotel/residential condos and develop the Co-Op site as the actual convention center exhibit space?

    That way, the dead space created by the convention center exhibit halls themselves are hidden behind the hotel and railroad tracks (and potentially I-40). There would also probably be plenty of space left over for large amounts of structured parking and future expansion as needed.

    There may also be plenty of space for a small stadium to be used for soccer, larger outdoor concerts, HS sporting events, etc (which could also use the structured parking).

  5. #230

    Default Re: Producers Coop

    Why not develop the lumbaryard as the convention center hotel/residential condos and develop the Co-Op site as the actual convention center exhibit space?

    That way, the dead space created by the convention center exhibit halls themselves are hidden behind the hotel and railroad tracks (and potentially I-40). There would also probably be plenty of space left over for large amounts of structured parking and future expansion as needed.

    There may also be plenty of space for a small stadium to be used for soccer, larger outdoor concerts, HS sporting events, etc (which could also use the structured parking).

  6. #231

    Default Re: Producers Coop

    I'm in Deep Deuce and Bricktown for dinner once or twice a week, and I cannot say that the smell from the coop has ever been noticeable for me. Sometimes I wonder what I am missing.

  7. #232

    Default Re: Producers Coop

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    I'm in Deep Deuce and Bricktown for dinner once or twice a week, and I cannot say that the smell from the coop has ever been noticeable for me. Sometimes I wonder what I am missing.
    It was kind of off and on. But when it was on it could be very pungent. I don't think I have smelled it at all for about a year, though.

  8. #233

    Default Re: Producers Coop

    Last time I remember it being really bad as probably late last summer. I haven't smelled it recently.

  9. #234

    Default Re: Producers Coop

    The only way I see this being sold soon is a large group of developers like what Steve had described that had s complete vision for the district or a stadium of some sorts. Selling it in parcels one at a time would be a nightmare.

  10. #235

    Default Re: Producers Coop

    Quote Originally Posted by hfry View Post
    The only way I see this being sold soon is a large group of developers like what Steve had described that had s complete vision for the district or a stadium of some sorts. Selling it in parcels one at a time would be a nightmare.
    Agree with this completely. The last thing that needs to happen is for it to be divided up into parcels.

  11. Default Re: Producers Coop

    Quote Originally Posted by BDP View Post
    You're right. I do forget that .6 and .8 miles is an issue for OKC. I think we're building a full service hotel next door to this thing, so that shouldn't be too big of an issue.

    Everything in downtown is walkable to me and is closer than most CC settings I usually encounter...
    Again, it is not about .8 miles being a hike for spoiled OKC residents. In fact it has NOTHING to do with that. The problem is that .8 miles takes over 15 minutes to walk by the accepted 3.1 MPH average human walking pace. 15 minutes takes that property out of consideration when pitching the 10 minute walk radius valued/expected by meeting planners. Remove all of our CBD's full service hotels from the sales pitch, and OKC becomes a much more difficult destination to sell to meeting planners.

    The full service hotel next door will be utilized by perhaps 500 people associated with a conference. If it is a citywide (attendance in the thousands), proximate full service hotels other than the HQ hotel become very important to the sales effort. You have walked further at other conferences because it really isn't that hard to sell conventions in established convention cities like Chicago, Orlando, Vegas, NOLA, or wherever. In that case, the destination name is the calling card. People WANT to be in those places already. A little inconvenience isn't going to be a disqualifier. In OKC we have to leverage ALL of our strengths, and our biggest strength currently is the relative walkable density of our hotels, dining and entertainment. If you doubt this, check out this recent industry article that lists OKC at the top of value meeting destinations: Top Value Destinations | www.themeetingmagazines.com

    Move away from this model and we become less compelling, and thereby less successful as a conference/convention destination.

    People in the CC thread keep scratching their heads and wondering why the City and its consultants seem so locked on the Reno site(s). They are trying to blame it on some nefarious plot to benefit...who? Larry Nichols? Bricktown? All of this speculation is baseless. The reason the consultants, the Chamber, the City, and whoever else is so strongly favoring that location, pure and simple, is because it is the only site still in the discussion that is a 10 minute or shorter walk (by accepted standards) to the CBD's full-service hotels. PERIOD.

  12. #237

    Default Re: Producers Coop

    Quote Originally Posted by AP View Post
    Without a doubt. I hope that what comes of it.
    This town could support an MLS team without even blinking an eye if they followed one rule. Never go against ou football or thunder basketball. Otherwise every game would draw 20,000+ easily with very good local tv ratings.

    Heck we were the #9 nba draft tv market with the #14 pick. It's a sports obsessed state plain and simple. The NFL NHL and MLB are pipe dreams but the MLS is acheiveable and the growth in the sport over the next 10-15 years will be nothing short of astonishing.

  13. Default Re: Producers Coop

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    There is zero frontage on any through street; one side is completely blocked by the railroad and another by I-40.
    Which is exactly why it makes such a great location for the convention center. Without having to worry about adjacent properties they don't have to keep feeding us this BS about putting it underground, which will save millions, and maybe 10's of millions. My concern is that we are putting walkability of a handful of visitors above walkability of residents (or at least potential future residents)

  14. Default Re: Producers Coop

    As for a soccer stadium, I hope when one does get built it is a neighborhood style stadium like Providence Park in Portland or many of the stadiums in England, and not something built with huge setbacks.

  15. #240

    Default Re: Producers Coop

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    As for a soccer stadium, I hope when one does get built it is a neighborhood style stadium like Providence Park in Portland or many of the stadiums in England, and not something built with huge setbacks.
    I think you are setting your standards way too high. This is Oklahoma City we are talking about. Unless it's done by Humphrey's or a small to medium sized developer who is in tune with urban principles, I would not hold my breath.

  16. #241

    Default Re: Producers Coop

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    I think you are setting your standards way too high. This is Oklahoma City we are talking about. Unless it's done by Humphrey's or a small to medium sized developer who is in tune with urban principles, I would not hold my breath.
    Is Populous considered in tune with urban principles? Because they make beautiful stadiums.

  17. #242

    Default Re: Producers Coop

    Quote Originally Posted by gopokes88 View Post
    Is Populous considered in tune with urban principles? Because they make beautiful stadiums.
    Is that who was selected to build this mythical Co-op soccer stadium?

  18. #243

    Default Re: Producers Coop

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    Is that who was selected to build this mythical Co-op soccer stadium?
    That's who I'd want lol

  19. Default Re: Producers Coop

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    ...My concern is that we are putting walkability of a handful of visitors above walkability of residents (or at least potential future residents)
    Really? If an average of 5K people a week use the CC per year and they rent cars instead of walk, it adds more than a quarter million cars to the downtown ecosystem downtown annually. Plus a bad location would drive even more additional parking requirements. I'd rather they walk.

  20. #245

    Default Re: Producers Coop

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    Really? If an average of 5K people a week use the CC per year and they rent cars instead of walk, it adds more than a quarter million cars to the downtown ecosystem downtown annually. Plus a bad location would drive even more additional parking requirements. I'd rather they walk.
    I'm not a huge walk-ability guy but when I'm visiting somewhere limiting my uber/renting a car/etc use is nice. Designing the CC to be walkable is the smartest move by far.

  21. #246

    Default Re: Producers Coop

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    Really? If an average of 5K people a week use the CC per year and they rent cars instead of walk, it adds more than a quarter million cars to the downtown ecosystem downtown annually. Plus a bad location would drive even more additional parking requirements. I'd rather they walk.
    I know it is kind of "old school" but are there not taxis already in the downtown area, negating the need for additional cars of this magnitude?

  22. #247

    Default Re: Producers Coop

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    I know it is kind of "old school" but are there not taxis already in the downtown area, negating the need for additional cars of this magnitude?
    Except companies usually pay for a car if it's needed. Taxi or free rental car?

  23. #248

    Default Re: Producers Coop

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    Again, it is not about .8 miles being a hike for spoiled OKC residents. In fact it has NOTHING to do with that. The problem is that .8 miles takes over 15 minutes to walk by the accepted 3.1 MPH average human walking pace. 15 minutes takes that property out of consideration when pitching the 10 minute walk radius valued/expected by meeting planners. Remove all of our CBD's full service hotels from the sales pitch, and OKC becomes a much more difficult destination to sell to meeting planners.

    The full service hotel next door will be utilized by perhaps 500 people associated with a conference. If it is a citywide (attendance in the thousands), proximate full service hotels other than the HQ hotel become very important to the sales effort. You have walked further at other conferences because it really isn't that hard to sell conventions in established convention cities like Chicago, Orlando, Vegas, NOLA, or wherever. In that case, the destination name is the calling card. People WANT to be in those places already. A little inconvenience isn't going to be a disqualifier. In OKC we have to leverage ALL of our strengths, and our biggest strength currently is the relative walkable density of our hotels, dining and entertainment. If you doubt this, check out this recent industry article that lists OKC at the top of value meeting destinations: Top Value Destinations | www.themeetingmagazines.com

    Move away from this model and we become less compelling, and thereby less successful as a conference/convention destination.

    People in the CC thread keep scratching their heads and wondering why the City and its consultants seem so locked on the Reno site(s). They are trying to blame it on some nefarious plot to benefit...who? Larry Nichols? Bricktown? All of this speculation is baseless. The reason the consultants, the Chamber, the City, and whoever else is so strongly favoring that location, pure and simple, is because it is the only site still in the discussion that is a 10 minute or shorter walk (by accepted standards) to the CBD's full-service hotels. PERIOD.
    Wow, you really took that and ran with it.

    I just said that I don't mind walking that distance or that time and I forget that it's perceived as a problem here. I don't know why or how this became a standard, as it certainly doesn't seem universal to the convention centers I usually go to. Very big and very successful ones are placed more than 15 minutes away from the bulk of rooms in their markets. So, I forget it's a big deal to the people planning this thing here. I would t think twice about staying at the skirvin and walking to a CC the distance this would be from that hotel. I've certainly walked much farther to conventions before. Of course, it may just be that to even be considered for the conventions they're dreaming of, we have to offer extreme convenience.

    I don't know why you assumed all this animosity or that I think there's some "nefarious" deal going on. I don't. I'm not even against the CC. I just forgot that this site would be too far away from some people. I honestly had no idea this site would qualify as moving away from some model. It seems very convenient to me if not, as you pointed out, for the blvd. Either way, I'll try not to mention it again, okay?

  24. Default Re: Producers Coop

    I never assumed animosity from you or said you were suggesting nefarious motives; not sure why you took that part personally. I'd urge you to read my comments again. I said "people in the CC thread" were suggesting these things. If you doubt this and have a strong enough stomach, I'd encourage you give that thread a read-through. It is rife with such allegations.

    By the way, you hit the nail on the head about offering "extreme convenience." Currently, this is the biggest thing OKC offers to differentiate us from cities we are bidding against. It is our calling card. I know this not from reading articles like the one I linked above, but instead by personally speaking with many, many dozens of meeting planners over the past 13 years, and by often playing a substantial role in the pitches being made for conferences and conventions. If the CVB gets them here, they want to book. They are ALWAYS wowed by the destination, and the number one comment is how amazed they are by how compact and walkable the we are to hotels, entertainment and other amenities. It is what allows us to compete.

    But usually they want to wait for the new building. But for the terrible facilities situation we currently are saddled with, we would be holding our own with much larger and well-established convention cities.

  25. #250

    Default Re: Producers Coop

    As long as it doesn't take parkland, I don't care where they put the thing. I use the Cox Center to walk inside on my way to Thunder games when it's really cold outside, and because walkability is so awful on EK Gaylord. That's it. I assume I will look inside the new convention center when they have some grand opening and never set foot in it again. I think people will be disappointed eventually that we took such central land adjacent to both parks for something as unimpressive as a one story convention center, and people may find it ridiculous that we spent the money to put one story underground. If the loading docks are not well hidden, that won't be appreciated since they will face the park, which of course is why we have to spend the money to put one story underground. I hope Urbanized is right and we will see some big uptick in conventions since we have this big new strategically located convention center paid for with $300 million of the taxpayer's money - because that is what its going to end up costing if we're lucky.

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