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Thread: Omni Hotel

  1. #101

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    I think you are trying too much to make sense.

  2. #102

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    There are actually strategic reasons for the hotel to have some public investment, which have not been discussed much publicly. They specifically go to the ability to book events at the convention center. One current problem has to do with the high occupancy AND 100% private ownership of downtown hotels; the CVB has a difficult time offering large blocks of contiguous rooms and deep discounts, which are standard when pursuing conventions.

    Currently occupancy runs very high - 80% plus nightly - which is extraordinarily high in that industry, and hotels can get close to rack rate nearly every night without expending much effort. Additionally, the current agreement the City has with JQH/Renaissance at times places them into a weird competitive position on meeting space rental.

    Right now we are actually a surprisingly appealing conference/convention destination (and have been for more than a decade) despite what some posters - even pro-CC posters - think. This is due primarily to our central location AND our walkable proximity to hotels and appealing dining and entertainment options. I personally see CVB-hosted site visits very regularly, and speak with convention planners, who are generally blown away by what they find here. Attractions, shopping or lack thereof really have little to do with bookings, despite conversations I see on here.

    The LOCATION of the Cox Center sells this city as a convention destination, and the CVB has for years been competing on events that it really should have not been able to compete on with such an inadequate facility. It's one of the reasons the SITE of the new center is more important than perhaps any other MAPS 3 project; what makes us competitive is how walkable we are as a convention location (ironic for OKC). Where we normally end up losing is on our inability to procure adequate rooms at deeply-discounted convention rates.

    If the City has at least SOME investment or ownership position in the new hotel, they can dictate some of the terms in circumstances like these, and our convention bookings WILL improve dramatically. In other words, City involvement is DESIRABLE. You can believe me or not, but understand that I work very closely with CVB staff and talk with at least one or two people a week there, and have for more than a dozen years.

    The convention center itself - combined with the need to set it up for success rather than failure - is not a pet project of some rich guy (which by the way is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard on here). It is a critical component of a successful city and especially a successful downtown. It isn't sexy or fun to talk/think about, and it doesn't SEEM to most people that it will affect their lives one way or another, but it IS important.
    Best post of this thread

  3. #103

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    I'm going to believe you Urbanized over anyone, pro or con, who looks at OKC from a distance. As I've said they bring their particular biases to their evaluation. You I know have an understanding of what's going on in downtown Oklahoma City. Thanks very much for the information. This is what people need to hear. The truth.

  4. #104

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    If we ever get some hard numbers and evidence that's the case let's see it. Otherwise, it's $250+250 million or so in unsupported rhetoric.

    We need less of that and more actual facts.

  5. #105

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    There are actually strategic reasons for the hotel to have some public investment, which have not been discussed much publicly. They specifically go to the ability to book events at the convention center. One current problem has to do with the high occupancy AND 100% private ownership of downtown hotels; the CVB has a difficult time offering large blocks of contiguous rooms and deep discounts, which are standard when pursuing conventions.

    Currently occupancy runs very high - 80% plus nightly - which is extraordinarily high in that industry, and hotels can get close to rack rate nearly every night without expending much effort. Additionally, the current agreement the City has with JQH/Renaissance at times places them into a weird competitive position on meeting space rental.

    Right now we are actually a surprisingly appealing conference/convention destination (and have been for more than a decade) despite what some posters - even pro-CC posters - think. This is due primarily to our central location AND our walkable proximity to hotels and appealing dining and entertainment options. I personally see CVB-hosted site visits very regularly, and speak with convention planners, who are generally blown away by what they find here. Attractions, shopping or lack thereof really have little to do with bookings, despite conversations I see on here.

    The LOCATION of the Cox Center sells this city as a convention destination, and the CVB has for years been competing on events that it really should have not been able to compete on with such an inadequate facility. It's one of the reasons the SITE of the new center is more important than perhaps any other MAPS 3 project; what makes us competitive is how walkable we are as a convention location (ironic for OKC). Where we normally end up losing is on our inability to procure adequate rooms at deeply-discounted convention rates.

    If the City has at least SOME investment or ownership position in the new hotel, they can dictate some of the terms in circumstances like these, and our convention bookings WILL improve dramatically. In other words, City involvement is DESIRABLE. You can believe me or not, but understand that I work very closely with CVB staff and talk with at least one or two people a week there, and have for more than a dozen years.

    The convention center itself - combined with the need to set it up for success rather than failure - is not a pet project of some rich guy (which by the way is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard on here). It is a critical component of a successful city and especially a successful downtown. It isn't sexy or fun to talk/think about, and it doesn't SEEM to most people that it will affect their lives one way or another, but it IS important.
    Excellent post. Great to hear your voice on this thread. You represent a small, local business and Bricktown attraction. For all of the rhetoric Shadid makes about supporting small, local business, his proposals all will hurt their bottom line. People forget how much money visitors spend in OKC on lodging, dining, shopping, and services -- not to mention, visiting our attractions. To me, $250 million seems like a bargain for a brand-new facility, particularly when I read about cities like Nashville spending upward of $800 million for their facility.

    I actually asked one of his campaign associates if Shadid is advocating OKC simply getting out of the convention business altogether. Waving the white flag, so to speak. And I got no response. Crickets. It's not clear to me exactly what these people want. They ridicule the convention center and decry the "process," but what is their alternative? Just not build one at all and see our share of the convention market fall each year? So tired of rhetoric and division. Ready for leadership and "can do" efforts to move this city forward. This election can't happen fast enough.

  6. #106

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    If we ever get some hard numbers and evidence that's the case let's see it. Otherwise, it's $250+250 million or so in unsupported rhetoric.

    We need less of that and more actual facts.
    The rhetoric is the $250 million marshmallow fluff number for a CC hotel of Ed's. if you're going to demand hard numbers why are you parroting figures that have no basis in reality?

  7. #107

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    ...
    I can't think of a reason in the world why we would support any public subsidy of any kind for a convention center hotel. We can encourage it but it should be 100% private.
    Many things that aid a city involve a public subsidy. Perhaps the appropriate landing point on this particular issue is somewhere between 100% private and 100% public, the latter being a level I have no problem with saying is a level no city should land.

  8. #108

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    Quote Originally Posted by betts View Post
    The rhetoric is the $250 million marshmallow fluff number for a CC hotel of Ed's. if you're going to demand hard numbers why are you parroting figures that have no basis in reality?
    This the hotel thread. How much does a hotel of the size Urbanized wants us to be a part of cost?


    Here's an idea:

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    If we ever get some hard numbers and evidence that's the case let's see it. Otherwise, <snip> it's unsupported rhetoric.

    We need less of that and more actual facts.

  9. #109

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    How much money is a hotel asking for?

  10. #110

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    No subsidy of any kind on a hotel. There's no evident reason to do that. If we need it, the private sector can step up. We've already spent millions to attract business and redevelop downtown. Let that money do the work we were told it would do.
    As far as CC numbers be damned and spend it all anyway on a bauble, I'd rather take another look at rehabbing the Cox center than do that. Put the rest back in the taxpayers pocket and for something else we need. Maps for Suburbs would be a good place. Buying (another) $1000 doormat for a house with the back porch falling off is irresponsible.

    That spend it while we have it attitude reminds me of a sign my father used to have on his office wall, "Nothing is easier than spending public money. It does not appear to belong to anyone. The temptation is overwhelming to bestow it on someone."

    Calvin Coolidge
    The millions we've spent downtown has done the work we were told it would do. 1994 OKC looks a lot different from 2014 OKC, in case you haven't noticed.

    I also disagree with your reliance on the private sector. The private sector didn't turn around downtown OKC. The public did. Private industry isn't a panacea. The private sector is good at making money, but it doesn't care where or how it makes it. It's as likely to build a call center in Yukon as it is to build a glittering downtown hotel. You can't just say "Private sector... alakazam!" and have a brand new hotel appear. Otherwise we would have one downtown right now.

    The entire purpose of building this convention center, and a hotel, is to boost OKC into a new level of economic activity, one we haven't seen before. We are trying to convince a large hotel to come here instead of building their new 35 story hotel in some other state. Again, private industry is good at making money, but they don't do it where you always want it and they don't do directed projects.

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    If we ever get some hard numbers and evidence that's the case let's see it. Otherwise, it's $250+250 million or so in unsupported rhetoric.

    We need less of that and more actual facts.
    You will never get actual facts, hard numbers, because they won't exist until after the convention center + hotel is built.

    Anything else is guesswork, period.

    I had a professor in college who used to say that no one writes anything without a reason. That's probably the most important thing I learned at OU. Anyone who puts in the amount of time and effort needed to come up with a decent set of projections on this topic is going to be getting paid to do it, and they're going to have their own opinions on the subject. If you are waiting for numbers without any bias then you will be waiting until the cows come home, and I don't mean my ex-girlfriend and her friends.

    We had no hard numbers when we built the Chesapeake Arena. But people recognized a need for the city and went ahead with a plan to fill that need.

  11. #111

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    People who study the numbers and the market can make reasonable assumptions and projections. We don't have that from the pro crowd. We have BS numbers and rhetoric.

  12. #112

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    People who study the numbers and the market can make reasonable assumptions and projections. We don't have that from the pro crowd. We have BS numbers and rhetoric.
    Then why is the "anti" crowd using BS numbers? You are like talking to a wall. Many people here have commented that the numbers that were promoted for the convention center were probably exaggerated. Why do you ignore those posts and just write troll nonsense like this? Why do you promote the garbage $800 million numbers Shadid says we're "on the hook" for, when we are on the "hook" only for the $250 million we voted for and approved?

    I suspect you will not answer this question and continue to deploy misdirection and sophistry. Very hard to converse with someone who doesn't continue the conversation where it advanced to but rather reboots every time to talking points.

  13. #113

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerguru View Post
    Many people here have commented that the numbers that were promoted for the convention center were probably exaggerated.
    We all agree on that part.

    Again, knee jerk per usual, Urbanized, not Ed, just made a case for us getting financially involved with a hotel. Try reading the thread sometime.

    I never said we are on the hook for $800 million. We aren't. Maybe you can post some more stuff in big letters and multi-quote a few long posts too to clog up the thread per your usual.

    As far as an estimate on possible total costs to build a hotel, (not what the taxpayers are on the hook for, not what Ed said or any other fallacy you can come up with again and again) try this from the top of the thread. It's as good as any other opinion on this board:

    Address: SW corner of Robinson & Reno
    Status: proposed
    Owner:
    Cost: est $200 million
    Architect:
    Start Date:
    Finish Date: est 2019
    Contractor:
    Height in Feet / Floors:
    Sq. Feet:
    Acreage:
    Other: Recommended 735 rooms

  14. #114

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    People who study the numbers and the market can make reasonable assumptions and projections. We don't have that from the pro crowd. We have BS numbers and rhetoric.
    Hey you like using big numbers, so here's one for ya... That ( Pro ) crowd is about 97% of us out here. ...we are comfortable in our large numbers. That leaves a very small ( 3% ) for the uninformed / misinformed / & the 1% that always votes against the majority.

    I hope we get a chance to vote for a hotel that is $1B in cost, because our economy is growing at a pace that requires it.

    ( wait, that may be too small, let's make that $1.5 B in cost so we can have 2 Iconic Towers looking over our fine city.)

  15. #115

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    I never said we are on the hook for $800 million. We aren't.
    But Ed did. Was he lying or just misguidED?

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    As far as an estimate on possible total costs to build a hotel,(not what the taxpayers are on the hook for or any other fallacy you can come up with again and again) try this from the top of the thread. It's as good as any other opinion on this board:

    Address: SW corner of Robinson & Reno
    Status: proposed
    Owner:
    Cost: est $200 million
    Architect:
    Start Date:
    Finish Date: est 2019
    Contractor:
    Height in Feet / Floors:
    Sq. Feet:
    Acreage:
    Other: Recommended 735 rooms
    Right. It's figure that is of interest. It's probably reasonably correct. But, again, my question is: How much has a hotel asked for?

  16. #116

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    Quote Originally Posted by betts View Post
    But Ed did. Was he lying or just misguidED?



    Right. It's figure that is of interest. It's probably reasonably correct. But, again, my question is: How much has a hotel asked for?
    You're asking me "again" because...?

    BTW...for the keystone thread cops, isn't there a thread to talk about Ed?

  17. #117

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    You're asking me "again" because...?

    BTW...for the keystone thread cops, isn't there a thread to talk about Ed?
    Because you are repeatedly implying that we might/will have to spend $250 million on a convention center hotel. By repeating it as ad nauseum as I'm trying to ask the above question, you leave it out there for the uninformed and low information voters to see and, I'm sure, hopefully believe. That's Ed rhetoric, which is why I brought his name up. I'm saying let's not get all hysterical until we see what a hotel is asking for. To do otherwise is to use fear mongering for political gain. And who is doing that?

    So far: no hotel, no financial demands.

  18. #118

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    Quote Originally Posted by betts View Post
    Because you are repeatedly implying that we might/will have to spend $250 million on a convention center hotel.
    Cites plural?

    ad nauseum is every time someone says "hotel" the cabal running out in hysteria

  19. #119

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    This is direct response to talking about urbanized calling for subsidized hotel:

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    If we ever get some hard numbers and evidence that's the case let's see it. Otherwise, it's $250+250 million or so in unsupported rhetoric.

    We need less of that and more actual facts.

  20. #120

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    If we ever get some hard numbers and evidence that's the case let's see it. Otherwise, it's $250+250 million or so in unsupported rhetoric.

    We need less of that and more actual facts.
    The sheer irony of this post is flooring. Would you care to support both sides of the $250+250 figure as money the city would be spending? I'm looking for some "hard numbers" and "actual facts" here, so don't try to change the subject or muddy the waters. It is time to back up your words and numbers.

  21. #121

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    The sheer irony of this post is flooring. Would you care to support both sides of the $250+250 figure as money the city would be spending? I'm looking for some "hard numbers" and "actual facts" here, so don't try to change the subject or muddy the waters. It is time to back up your words.
    Ask Urbanized, it was his rhetoric. What's he got in mind and how far is he willing to go towards the total cost? How far are you willing to go? My answer is zero.

  22. #122

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
    Ask Urbanized. What's he got in mind and how far is he willing to go towards the total cost? How far are you willing to go?
    Bzzzt, wrong, try again. Substantiate the $250+250 figure.

  23. #123

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    Bzzt. Wrong answer.

  24. #124

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    So, does this mean you are the person giving us BS numbers and rhetoric? Surely you could back up your numbers if you aren't.

  25. #125

    Default Re: Convention Hotel

    Like Soonercan'tread, you aren't keeping up with the thread either. No surprise.

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