Fordson Hotel (formerly 21c Museum Hotel)

[Jeepnokc]

Yep, the two smaller buildings immediately west of One North Hudson are not historical, and then there is large lot between those and the bus station.

Good point. The hotel in Bentonville was new construction so a hybrid of historical (Hotel Black) and the not historical building next to it may be feasible if TIF funds allow. Also, if non historical...easier to tear down to put in a second taller building for more rooms.

I think the Fred Jones building would be very cool but can't see family letting it go and also can't see the attraction for hotel that removed from downtown and entertainment district and/or convention center. As much as I would like for Film Exchange to become a entertainment district...not sure I see that happening. Definitely not on my end due to the elementary school and restrictions on liquor licensing

[UnFrSaKn]

[Praedura]

While we're contemplating the thought of the old Hotel Black being renovated as a new boutique hotel, I thought I'd play around with a great photo of that area that I just came across:



That section of Sheridan is going to be one sweet spot in downtown!

[LakeEffect]

Just heard AGAIN that the location for this hotel may be the Fred Jones Building.

Doesn't make sense but it's from people I trust.

One issue that I just realized that may be pushing this. The current state law requirements regarding schools and alcohol would limit a hotel bar at the Hotel Black, would it not? The Fred Jones would meet the separation requirement...

[Pete]

^

True but remember there was an exception made in Bricktown for ACM@UCO.

[warreng88]

One issue that I just realized that may be pushing this. The current state law requirements regarding schools and alcohol would limit a hotel bar at the Hotel Black, would it not? The Fred Jones would meet the separation requirement...

I assume you are referring to the distance between the John Rex Elementary School and the Hotel Black?

[bchris02]

One issue that I just realized that may be pushing this. The current state law requirements regarding schools and alcohol would limit a hotel bar at the Hotel Black, would it not? The Fred Jones would meet the separation requirement...

A hotel establishment is usually a bar/restaurant though and that is permissible right? It's just "class C" liquor licenses i.e. a bar that doesn't serve food that cannot be granted within 300 feet of a church or school as far as I know. I would hate for that to prevent redevelopment of the Hotel Black or hinder it from its potential.

[OKCisOK4me]

A hotel establishment is usually a bar/restaurant though and that is permissible right? It's just "class C" liquor licenses i.e. a bar that doesn't serve food that cannot be granted within 300 feet of a church or school as far as I know. I would hate for that to prevent redevelopment of the Hotel Black or hinder it from its potential.

Just out of curiosity, does the 300' rule work if its 150' on the ground and 150' up? lol

[Bellaboo]

Just out of curiosity, does the 300' rule work if its 150' on the ground and 150' up? lol

Ha... back in the '70's, I'd fly from OKC to Denver and the airline I was on at the time gave out small bottles of wine. The pilot at the time would tell us they would have to avoid flying over southwest Kansas due to the liquor laws.

[Praedura]

Just out of curiosity, does the 300' rule work if its 150' on the ground and 150' up? lol

Sorry, but using the Pythagorean theorem still yields a 212.13 foot straight line distance, so... no banana daiquiri for you!

[OKCisOK4me]

Sorry, but using the Pythagorean theorem still yields a 212.13 foot straight line distance, so... no banana daiquiri for you!

Yeah, I did have the thought (post-post) that C^2 might be the answer ;-)

[LakeEffect]

A hotel establishment is usually a bar/restaurant though and that is permissible right? It's just "class C" liquor licenses i.e. a bar that doesn't serve food that cannot be granted within 300 feet of a church or school as far as I know. I would hate for that to prevent redevelopment of the Hotel Black or hinder it from its potential.

Yeah, I'm wrong.

[BoulderSooner]

^

True but remember there was an exception made in Bricktown for ACM@UCO.

That took a change in state law. Sb1218. And it did not provide an exception for schools or churches. Only university's and colleges in a bid district

[Pete]

But also keep in mind the Stage Center Tower is going in right next to the school and will definitely have at least one restaurant, so there will have to be a work-around regardless of One North Hudson. Same goes for the bus station.

They need to just repeal the silly law completely. What good is it possibly serving? Are children slipping into bars after school??

[BoulderSooner]

Remember the law only applies to abc 3. Bar. Restaurants with abc 2 are allowed

[Teo9969]

Parking and liquor laws in the core need to be entirely revamped. You can't have high density development strangled by low to medium density zoning laws.

Also, as to the size of One N. Hudson…wouldn't you just add the old Auto building to the north? Those together are surely big enough (though connecting the two buildings past the first floor may not be feasible.

[Pete]

They have already changed things like parking requirements (in urban districts they are universally waived) and they should do the same with alcohol.

The difference, of course, is that the parking was the jurisdiction of the City and alcohol laws are set by the state.

[bchris02]

They have already changed things like parking requirements (in urban districts they are universally waived) and they should do the same with alcohol.

The difference, of course, is that the parking was the jurisdiction of the City and alcohol laws are set by the state.

Even conservative Mary Fallin agreed to waive the alcohol rules for Bricktown. That should be expanded to cover the other urban districts.

[Teo9969]

Even conservative Mary Fallin agreed to waive the alcohol rules for Bricktown. That should be expanded to cover the other urban districts.

Not just urban districts, though…anywhere where High Density development has a legitimate chance to occur, which includes smaller towns, and both major cities. In OKC, Western is a great example of a street that is affected by sundry zoning laws (state or local). There are so many churches and schools along that stretch, and it's not downtown, so restaurant parking requirements remain stringent…and I imagine there are several other issues that are restraints on developers and good urban development. If I have to have massive amounts of parking to start a restaurant, then, well, that sucks.

[Teo9969]

Do we know what percentage of these hotels are dedicated to the museum/entertainment aspect of the development and how accessible and useful they are to the local residents?

[bchris02]

Not just urban districts, though…anywhere where High Density development has a legitimate chance to occur, which includes smaller towns, and both major cities. In OKC, Western is a great example of a street that is affected by sundry zoning laws (state or local). There are so many churches and schools along that stretch, and it's not downtown, so restaurant parking requirements remain stringent…and I imagine there are several other issues that are restraints on developers and good urban development. If I have to have massive amounts of parking to start a restaurant, then, well, that sucks.

Wow I never knew that. Now I understand why people say the laws favor sprawl. There should be a state law waiving all parking and alcohol ordinances within districts that meet a certain criteria. I wonder how much cool development is actually stifled by these laws.

[Pete]

Do we know what percentage of these hotels are dedicated to the museum/entertainment aspect of the development and how accessible and useful they are to the local residents?

In other cities their gallery/public space is close to 10,000 square feet, which is quite large.

[Teo9969]

Well, that would help this area to be an Arts District…really hope OKC can land this at that location. The MBG would be unbelievably special with everything you could see and get to within 2 cross-walks.

[bchris02]

Well, that would help this area to be an Arts District…really hope OKC can land this at that location. The MBG would be unbelievably special with everything you could see and get to within 2 cross-walks.

I completely agree. I think OKC needs more developments like this to increase the vibrancy of the arts scene here. This will be a HUGE score if it happens. Downtown Louisville is very vibrant and a magnet for creative people, a definite model for OKC. It just so happens that they have one of these hotels.

[mobstam]

I don't know what their space needs are, but I've kind of thought that GE moving into the Fred Jones Building would make sense. Would also help jump start westside development.