State Fairgrounds

[OkiePoke]

I am talking about Lindsey. I've already stopped by and met Dave, I believe.

I have no illusions about getting a big act like F1 to OKC. There is no way we can compete with COTA, but it'd be nice to have a place to see grassroot racing other than dirt track or drag racing. Even though, I am grateful that we do have those options. But AFAIK there aren't even any PCA events in OK. That really surprised me. The fairgrounds seems like the most likely public facility that could hold something like that. I just don't know how popular it would be with the neighbors. Fingers crossed though.

PCA does some stuff at the Edmond Fire Dept. SCCA hosts events at Remington and occasionally Hallett. I know BMWCC was active prior to the Sheriff track crap. I really wish we could get access to that again.

[T. Jamison]

PCA does some stuff at the Edmond Fire Dept. SCCA hosts events at Remington and occasionally Hallett. I know BMWCC was active prior to the Sheriff track crap. I really wish we could get access to that again.

Thanks for the information! I previously looked and couldn't find any PCA stuff until finding the Warbonnet Region just now. I have to get this POS running, then I'm all over it.

[Jersey Boss]

Probably the only way you can get anything done with less scrutiny. Remember how Ron Norick and city leaders crafted MAPS...

"Probably the only way you can get anything done with less scrutiny". And by extension no accountability to the taxpayers and residents.

[Plutonic Panda]

But did they have to be that way? Haven't other cities have maintained their attractions/rides and still have them operating? Aren't they gone from here because of demolition by intentional deferred maintenance ("they" just didn't want to spend the money on them)?

Yeah I just can’t stand that mentality for someone says oh this or that was rundown dilapidated requiring a lot of money to restore. Well duh that’s the idea. Great cities like Los Angeles or New York City don’t become that way because they looked at certain projects or initiatives and said Jesus cost too much can’t do it

[Dob Hooligan]

Yeah I just can’t stand that mentality for someone says oh this or that was rundown dilapidated requiring a lot of money to restore. Well duh that’s the idea. Great cities like Los Angeles or New York City don’t become that way because they looked at certain projects or initiatives and said Jesus cost too much can’t do it

What I took from the Sunday Oklahoman story of 11-7-2021 was that the Fairgrounds through the 1980s had become the "donating ground" for mechanical marvels and other items from Oklahoma that were no longer used. These items had always come without any maintenance funding attached. By the new century the State Fair had become a money losing 2 week fair and the complex was facing some hard financial decisions regarding the future. By then the rides we miss so much now were 35 to 45 years of age, and fitting in the "old enough to be old, not old enough to be retro or nostalgic" category. Happens all the time and happens today with items from the 1970s-80s.

Nowadays, we have a better system for these type items, and the Oklahoma Historical Society would be the go to. Since that is more of their business, they have a better ability to lay out future care into the decision to accept donations.

[BDP]

$100M annual impact. ... so why?? are they needing money from MAPS?

Economic impact also includes revenue generated by tourist spending in the city while they are here. Most people attending horse events are from out of state and many are international. So, just about every attendee is spending money at other place likes hotels, restaurants, etc. during those events. That compounds the economic impact more significantly than the mostly local or regional attractions. So, the economic impact numbers don't tell us how much goes directly into the stair fair coffers. That would be very good information to have, though.

And don't give me that crap about the Thunder, the Fair has received WAY more money from MAPS and other municipal funding mechanisms than the Thunder yet contribute FAR less than the Thunder to the city's economic impact be it monetary or image/social not to mention the experience itself. ...

I haven't seen a direct comparison on MAPS money spent that serves the Thunder vs the horse shows, but the overall economic impact from the horse industry is consistently estimated as more than the economic impact from the Thunder. Compared to the $100MM annual estimated economic impact of the horse shows, the Thunder estimated their number to be about $53MM annually:

https://www.oklahoman.com/article/56...-oklahoma-city

According to data provided to the Thunder by the city, each home game translates to $1.5 million in economic impact for OKC.

Sure, those studies can be dubious, but they basically use the same dubious methods.

One thing to consider when comparing the two, is that the horse shows bring in a lot more out of market spending, so it's a true market influx. A lot of Thunder money is local people deciding to take their family to a game instead of, say, a movie. I'm not minimizing the impact the Thunder has on the city's image or economy, but in terms of real economic return on investment, the horse industry should not be dismissed at all.

Not saying the fair shouldn't be supported but I am asking why they keep getting blank cheques from the city with comparably minimal return when considering the Thunder, the Zoo, or other venues that contribute far more and are held accountable.

Those entities do not contribute far more to the economy, but no doubt they shouldn't get blank cheques and should be way more transparent with more community input and accountability.

I can understand favoring spending in other areas due to interest. I understand how many, especially locally, would rather ride a monorail once a year than go to even one of the many horse shows and equine events every year. I just don't understand pitting them against each other, especially in terms of economic impact. It seems like many simply don't know about the national and international money that is associated with the horse industry. I'd like to see both the fair and the horse industry be maintained, improved and successful, even though I personally don't have much interest in either.

Ultimately, I think people can support having higher concept rides and attractions at the yearly fair and do so without specious economic comparisons or representing an industry that has a very real economic contribution to the city as insignificant.

[Pete]

FYI, these are the reported salaries for Oklahoma State Fair Inc.:

Timothy J O'Toole PRESIDENT/CEO 35 $349,967
Gina Burchfiel VP FAIR 35 $195,123
Bill Allen VP FAIR PARK 35 $157,471
Kevin Rogers VP FINANCE 35 $115,217
Scott Munz VP PR 35 $113,905
James Johnson VP IMPACT CATERING 20 $56,111
Shannon Crossley CORP SECRETARY 40 $46,978

[Plutonic Panda]

What I took from the Sunday Oklahoman story of 11-7-2021 was that the Fairgrounds through the 1980s had become the "donating ground" for mechanical marvels and other items from Oklahoma that were no longer used. These items had always come without any maintenance funding attached. By the new century the State Fair had become a money losing 2 week fair and the complex was facing some hard financial decisions regarding the future. By then the rides we miss so much now were 35 to 45 years of age, and fitting in the "old enough to be old, not old enough to be retro or nostalgic" category. Happens all the time and happens today with items from the 1970s-80s.

Nowadays, we have a better system for these type items, and the Oklahoma Historical Society would be the go to. Since that is more of their business, they have a better ability to lay out future care into the decision to accept donations.

Surely a way to find money could be had. Work with state legislators and since the horse shows are bringing in so much revenue why not issue bonds backed by that? Why I said the city should rethink its contract with the operators and create a new city office that oversees the fairgrounds. Find a way to retire some old TIF districts and create a new one here. Or bring it to a vote of the people and have a MAPS for the Fair extension like some of the old maps extensions in the past.

[Bill Robertson]

As has been mentioned before. I wish there had been something like a "Maps For The Fairgrounds". Then if it passed that would be fantastic. But if it failed then it would be on the citizens of OKC that the Fairgrounds is a bland shell of what could be.

[shawnw]

FYI, these are the reported salaries for Oklahoma State Fair Inc.:

Timothy J O'Toole PRESIDENT/CEO 35 $349,967
Gina Burchfiel VP FAIR 35 $195,123
Bill Allen VP FAIR PARK 35 $157,471
Kevin Rogers VP FINANCE 35 $115,217
Scott Munz VP PR 35 $113,905
James Johnson VP IMPACT CATERING 20 $56,111
Shannon Crossley CORP SECRETARY 40 $46,978

wow, had no idea. these are their full time positions?

[Jersey Boss]

As has been mentioned before. I wish there had been something like a "Maps For The Fairgrounds". Then if it passed that would be fantastic. But if it failed then it would be on the citizens of OKC that the Fairgrounds is a bland shell of what could be.

Would that be in addition to the dedicated share of the taxes they already get or instead of?

[BoulderSooner]

FYI, these are the reported salaries for Oklahoma State Fair Inc.:

Timothy J O'Toole PRESIDENT/CEO 35 $349,967
Gina Burchfiel VP FAIR 35 $195,123
Bill Allen VP FAIR PARK 35 $157,471
Kevin Rogers VP FINANCE 35 $115,217
Scott Munz VP PR 35 $113,905
James Johnson VP IMPACT CATERING 20 $56,111
Shannon Crossley CORP SECRETARY 40 $46,978

as a comparision these are the tulsa fair grounds salarys .. (from 2015)

https://tulsaworld.com/expo-square-s...c60d9b4fa.html

[Bill Robertson]

Would that be in addition to the dedicated share of the taxes they already get or instead of?

I'm not thinking so much about the money as a gauge of how important the Fairgrounds is to the general public. If OKC had put restoration/upgrading of the 3 icons most talked about here how would that vote have ended up. Not funding really, just interest in seeing it done. I don't know.

[Plutonic Panda]

As has been mentioned before. I wish there had been something like a "Maps For The Fairgrounds". Then if it passed that would be fantastic. But if it failed then it would be on the citizens of OKC that the Fairgrounds is a bland shell of what could be.

There still can be. Lets MAPS 4 run its course, when the current tax expires propose an extension. There are other proposals coming soon like the RTA tax. Let some of current taxes like Better Streets expire so voters don't get fatigue from tons of taxes.

[Bill Robertson]

There still can be. Lets MAPS 4 run its course, when the current tax expires propose an extension. There are other proposals coming soon like the RTA tax. Let some of current taxes like Better Streets expire so voters don't get fatigue from tons of taxes.

I was thinking more in terms of having saved the icons just the way they were but with updates. Like A/C. So it would have had to been done while they still existed.

[Plutonic Panda]

I was thinking more in terms of having saved the icons just the way they were but much improved. So it would have had to been done while they still existed.

Too late for that. Recreate the destroyed icons. Probably best to bring it to a vote of the people as much as I'd like to see it the city needs to decide.

[Urbanized]

$100M annual impact. ... so why?? are they needing money from MAPS?
...

BECAUSE the fairgrounds generates $100M annually and the City wisely wants to protect and grow said impact..?

"Economic impact" doesn't mean the money that is spent at the fairgrounds or that directly benefits the fairgrounds (although a small portion of it does, of course). It means the money that is spent city-wide as a result of events held there. In a nutshell, horse shows (and other events) help us pay for things like police, fire, water, trash, streets, etc.. Reinvesting in the fairgrounds is similar to a business owner reinvesting in their place of business. In this case, the business is horse shows and other events. And every tax payer in OKC is in that business, and benefits from it. Not sure why this is so hard to understand.

[_Cramer_]

1. I think we need to call it what it is, no longer a State Fair Park, but Livestock and Events Center.
2. The entire budget should be public if they are a part of MAPS/City things.
3. Outlying property could easily hold 2-3 hotels with 120-150 rooms each. Especially along Reno and possibly along May.
4. Would love to see light rail along Reno to Meridian and down to the WRWA. Stops to include the Farmer's Market, fairgrounds, S. of I-40 and airport.
5. Hoping they clean up the fairgrounds and add some quality landscaping! Would be good if there was a large parking garage between the pavilion and the Bennett Event Center or over off the east side. Add more green space and make it more pedestrian friendly. The mismatched parking lots and roads are in good shape, but a mess to navigate.

[Laramie]

No problem calling it State Fair Park. State & county fairs throughout this country have land set aside for traditional fairs.

Invest in a new Space Tower and monorail.

Envision an iconic Skydance Tower, (coordinated lighting with Skydance Bridge) towering 800 feet with an elevated control building from which the tower and monorail are operated and protected from floods and the elements. Keep the monorail within State Fair Park (Not linked to Public Transit).

Let the State Fair Board operate a major Stock Show with the new State Fair Coliseum and Bennett Events Center.

[Pete]

I took this today (Saturday 3/11). Just thousands of cars.

I know there are a lot of complaints about the way fair park has been developed, but holy cow what an economic engine:

[MagzOK]

We spent a lot of time a the fairgrounds over the past couple weeks -- namely Norrick Arena -- watching our high school basketball team and I just cannot believe the state of disrepair the arena is. It really is a disgrace and no wonder the IFR and PBR moved out of it and OKC. This new arena they're building next door is going to be great, but I just hope the city doesn't allow it to fall in such disrepair as they have the Norrick arena. I doubt we'll ever be able to compete with Las Vegas to bring back the PBR championship, but maybe we can get back in on the circuit itself. I hope it's nice enough that at least the IFR will come back here from the Lazy E.

[mugofbeer]

Why roll money to repair a facility that is going to be replaced? The same thing happened in Denver to the Coliseum when they knew there was going to be a major renovation to the entire area.

[Laramie]

We spent a lot of time a the fairgrounds over the past couple weeks -- namely Norrick Arena -- watching our high school basketball team and I just cannot believe the state of disrepair the arena is. It really is a disgrace and no wonder the IFR and PBR moved out of it and OKC. This new arena they're building next door is going to be great, but I just hope the city doesn't allow it to fall in such disrepair as they have the Norrick arena. I doubt we'll ever be able to compete with Las Vegas to bring back the PBR championship, but maybe we can get back in on the circuit itself. I hope it's nice enough that at least the IFR will come back here from the Lazy E.

The new coliseum will be a draw; there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to maintain the new coliseum since they will have a steady stream of income from the hotel room tax IIFC.

Pete showed us a pic of the cars in his #945 post on this thread. The coliseum will allow the City to renew contracts on a longer term with replacement to the Jim Norick Arena.

[Dob Hooligan]

Seems like we are getting into 'Damned if you do, damned if you don't" territory. I think the State Fairgrounds management know what they are doing, and are good stewards of taxpayer money.

Honestly, I thought PBR had operated in either the Myriad or Paycom arenas for several years. No idea about the IFR.