State Fairgrounds

[Laramie]

State Fair Board Trust should open their budget figures; this would allow voters to propose some replacement projects on a 2017-18 MAPS 4 initiative for State Fair Park.

Replace monorail: Est: $unavailable

A taller-ticker version of the 70' arch--100 ft., high 3-4 ft.,base: Est: $unavailable

New Arrows to Atoms Space Tower:

Arrows to Atoms Space Tower 500' - 600' replacement: Est: $20 - $25 million
Estimate base on the 500 ft., Texas State Fair Top O Texas Tower Ride (Dallas) $12 million constructed in 2011-12:
http://bigtex.com/top-o-texas-tower-ride-facts/

Note: Would love to see a tower of this magnitude with a double horizontal ring with a lower ring that would elevate up & down to a fixed observation deck of similar or larger size.

Grand Stands: NO PLANS TO REPLACE (noise levels).

New State Fair Arena replacement: Est: $100 million.

2039 - Oklahoma City will celebrate its 150th (Sesquicentennial year) Anniversary of the Land Run of 1889. That would be a Great Anniversary to celebrate a World's Fair at State Fair Park. Time to plan for some possible future projects.

[5alive]

My concern, along with many of you, is we are getting some nice and useful new buildings (example, The Bennett Center) but nothing iconic is being constructed or I doubt even considered. The things we are lamenting were extra ordinary and gave the fairgrounds personality.

[mkjeeves]

The arch was dedicated in '76. Gerald Ford attended. Fountain and arch were designed by architect Afton Gille who worked on a number of other fair projects. The plaque I was remembering is on the side of the fountain.

http://www.news9.com/story/35288587/...tate-fair-arch

His obituary

http://legacy.newsok.com/obituaries/...?pid=170596635

I'm guessing this was a bicentennial project.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...s_Bicentennial

[Jersey Boss]

Just curious about the arch and any other structures at the fairgrounds. Who/what owns and is the responsible party for these things? Why is there no insurance for events like storm damage?

[Rover]

My concern, along with many of you, is we are getting some nice and useful new buildings (example, The Bennett Center) but nothing iconic is being constructed or I doubt even considered. The things we are lamenting were extra ordinary and gave the fairgrounds personality.

I am sorry, but the arch was far from iconic. Nor the needle or the skytram. They were novelties, but if you travel elsewhere and see true icons, you realize they are cute fairground chotchkies. They were neither iconic in style or in size. Perhaps they were nostalgic reminders of something cute in our own past, but hardly extraordinary in a broader context.

[Laramie]

Just curious about the arch and any other structures at the fairgrounds. Who/what owns and is the responsible party for these things? Why is there no insurance for events like storm damage?

Owned by the City of Oklahoma City under the Trust of an Oklahoma State Fair Board of Directors.

As for Insurance? I would doubt it.

[SOONER8693]

I am sorry, but the arch was far from iconic. Nor the needle or the skytram. They were novelties, but if you travel elsewhere and see true icons, you realize they are cute fairground chotchkies. They were neither iconic in style or in size. Perhaps they were nostalgic reminders of something cute in our own past, but hardly extraordinary in a broader context.

100% agree.

[Plutonic Panda]

I am sorry, but the arch was far from iconic. Nor the needle or the skytram. They were novelties, but if you travel elsewhere and see true icons, you realize they are cute fairground chotchkies. They were neither iconic in style or in size. Perhaps they were nostalgic reminders of something cute in our own past, but hardly extraordinary in a broader context.

100% disagree.

[bombermwc]

Well none of them really MEAN anything. They're old, what 60's era, "things" someone built but they dont really serve any purpose. They are, however, iconic elements to the fairgrounds. I feel like the monorail was a loss but i understand that it doesn't really serve a purpose and wasn't financially viable. OKC isn't unique in the 60's era view of "the future", but we never updated anything to keep up out there. So the monorail is gone, the needle is permanently closed, and the arch came down. Those eye catchers are gone, but they dont really change the identity of the fairgrounds. No more than having the grandstands gone really did much either. In fact i'd say the fairgrounds are more financially sound than they have been in a VERY long time. For me, these things have been there all my life, but i just dont really "miss" them. Yeah i'd still take a ride up the needle if it was operating, but if it's not there, im not really missing out on anything. To me, the fairgrounds still has quite a bit of the old "crap" to get rid of to clean the place up and pull it the rest of the way out of the stagnant 60's.

I never did understand why we had a miniature St Louis arch anyway. Does anyone know the real story as to why it was built in that particular design?

[LakeEffect]

100% disagree.

100% disagree with your disagreement.

Not having grown up here, I never placed any value on these elements. I go to State Fair park for what's going on, not these little items. I've never told a visitor "you have to go see the mini Arch..." Rover used a good word - novelties; they're cute, fun for nostalgia, but that's it.

[rezman]

I guess they should go ahead and tear down the old WKY/OPUBCO pavilion too. It's a mid century piece of old fairgrounds architecture that is "cute", and no longer relevant to today's times.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4748...7i13312!8i6656

[Rover]

OKC sets the bar really, really LOW on what is considered iconic or even special. vs

vs

Hmmm.

Anybody who thinks the OKC version is either iconic or special probably hasn't visited many other cities. Something that wasn't special in 1960 doesn't just get more special by rusting.

[Plutonic Panda]

When I say iconic I mean for the fairgrounds. It wasn't a single thing such a the arch alone that made the fair special, it was everything else combined. That is what I meant.

It is iconic for the city to have a nice fair grounds like it did. Not a boring, bland one. I know the ones in SoCal I've been to aren't very special. I am not sure how other states compare. That one in Dallas is okay and has a few cool areas, but it is nowhere near as cool to the OKC fair I saw in the old pictures.

[HangryHippo]

When I say iconic I mean for the fairgrounds. It wasn't a single thing such a the arch alone that made the fair special, it was everything else combined. That is what I meant.

It is iconic for the city to have a nice fair grounds like it did. Not a boring, bland one. I know the ones in SoCal I've been to aren't very special. I am not sure how other states compare. That one in Dallas is okay and has a few cool areas, but it is nowhere near as cool to the OKC fair I saw in the old pictures.

I agree with what cafeboeuf said about it being nostalgic, but I also agree with you in that the combined nostalgia of what was there was what made the fair so much fun, at least for me.

[SoonerDave]

I am sorry, but the arch was far from iconic. Nor the needle or the skytram. They were novelties, but if you travel elsewhere and see true icons, you realize they are cute fairground chotchkies. They were neither iconic in style or in size. Perhaps they were nostalgic reminders of something cute in our own past, but hardly extraordinary in a broader context.

Respectfully but 1,000,000% disagree. These items were iconic as signature elements of a fairgrounds our current leadership is plowing down just as fast as they can. What supposed "broader context' is relevant if the whole point is to make the fair novel unto itself for the people and state it celebrates? Do I care if the people in, say, New York find something in our fair novel? Not a bit.

The tower, the monorail, the arch, were absolutely iconic to those of use who grew up here and enjoyed the fair as something distinctive. Maybe they didn't mean crap to *you*, and don't live up to *your* definition of "true icons" - and that's 100% your prerogative, but for a lot of people that's *exactly* what they were.

An upgrade/revisit of any of these structures would be welcome in my book.

[SoonerDave]

OKC sets the bar really, really LOW on what is considered iconic or even special. vs

vs

Hmmm.

Anybody who thinks the OKC version is either iconic or special probably hasn't visited many other cities. Something that wasn't special in 1960 doesn't just get more special by rusting.

I'm trying to be respectful of the differing opinion here, but its really difficult to avoid the idea that because *you* say our bar isn't as high as *you* think it should be, our standards therefore must be crap. I get sick to death of this kind of condescension. I couldn't care less if one person from one supposedly "more hip" city thought anything unique to us was special to *them*. But that's apparently the only standard to which we are allowed to aspire - it has to be as cool as what the "cool kids" think is cool. What a bunch of nonsense.

We had every opportunity to evolve and update the tower, the monorail, and keep them relevant. We plowed them under for more buildings and horse barns.

[jerrywall]

Well you know what they say about opinions....

[Plutonic Panda]

I agree with what cafeboeuf said about it being nostalgic, but I also agree with you in that the combined nostalgia of what was there was what made the fair so much fun, at least for me.

Yeah, I completely see both sides of the argument. I would love to see these things funded and brought back again but that would require probably around half a billion to bring everything back and the city could spend that money elsewhere right now that would be better.

[Pete]

I'd be happy if they just maintained what is there and established higher standards in general.

I ride my bike through there and for the tens of millions of recent tax dollars, the entire place is sad.

[TheTravellers]

I'm trying to be respectful of the differing opinion here, but its really difficult to avoid the idea that because *you* say our bar isn't as high as *you* think it should be, our standards therefore must be crap. I get sick to death of this kind of condescension. I couldn't care less if one person from one supposedly "more hip" city thought anything unique to us was special to *them*. But that's apparently the only standard to which we are allowed to aspire - it has to be as cool as what the "cool kids" think is cool. What a bunch of nonsense.

We had every opportunity to evolve and update the tower, the monorail, and keep them relevant. We plowed them under for more buildings and horse barns.

It's all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$, which is what drives most of our country now - if you can't show a big ROI, screw it, not worth doing.

[Laramie]

The space tower & arch entrance by no means were intended to compete with Seattle-St. Louis any more than the casino replicas you see in Las Vegas or Thackerville.

Novelties like the Streetcar & a future Smithsonian caliber museum (AICCM) are ahead.

OKC's attractiveness will depend on what we invest; do we want a major icon? Major cities continue to build & invest; the return on investment (ROI) factor will be the cumulative investments to make OKC's future--attractive.

Relatives & friends come to OKC for a change of scenery; we have plenty of year round places (Bricktown, Plaza Arts, Paseo...), events & attractions to enjoy .

OKC ambassadorship begins with YOU!

[5alive]

^^^

[traxx]

I am sorry, but the arch was far from iconic. Nor the needle or the skytram. They were novelties, but if you travel elsewhere and see true icons, you realize they are cute fairground chotchkies. They were neither iconic in style or in size. Perhaps they were nostalgic reminders of something cute in our own past, but hardly extraordinary in a broader context.

Well, you may not like them, but Joanie loves chotchkies.

[jerrywall]

Well, you may not like them, but Joanie loves chotchkies.

I needed that this morning.... thank you.

(but then I think about Erin Moran and am now depressed)....

[hoya]

There's nothing at all wrong with kitschy little attractions in a city. Not everything is going to be the Space Needle or the Gateway Arch. Having a collection of cool little retro pieces in the fairgrounds helped define that space. For a lot of people, the arch and the needle and the grandstands were what made the fair a fun place to go. So while "iconic" might be the wrong word, they were essential pieces that are now missing.

I'm glad that the fair is doing better financially now. All those horse barns clearly bring in money. But the vast majority of people who live in the city and visit the fair every year don't go for the horse shows. I think the Board of Directors need to understand that the fairgrounds are a shared public space. It's one of the places where we gather as a community. Rather than just adding event halls and letting the rest of the place fall apart, we need structures and attractions that inspire us.