So...have any of you spotted anyone carrying openly yet?

[WilliamTell]

this law is a good thing.

Internet hat off for a moment.

I obviously dont think the law is the end of the world. But till this day I havent really heard any good argument (besides the one you posted about having a weapon out on your own property) that truly support open carry. I just get a massive kick out of people screaming and yelling about how neutered they were by the concealed portion of the past law. Seriously, how freaking hard is it for you to reach into your own pocket?

Come on.

The only other aspects that ive seen (as i said earlier) are people like the man pictured, that are so obese that they have a hard time concealing, people who want to strut around, or (also as the man pictured) people who want to carry a huge full sized weapon with 30 rounds?

[kelroy55]

One would hope any officer would obey laws as well, but I routinely get passed by officers on the interstate who are not running with lights and sirens.

Were they at least doing this?

[hrdware]

Internet hat off for a moment.

I obviously dont think the law is the end of the world. But till this day I havent really heard any good argument (besides the one you posted about having a weapon out on your own property) that truly support open carry. I just get a massive kick out of people screaming and yelling about how neutered they were by the concealed portion of the past law. Seriously, how freaking hard is it for you to reach into your own pocket?

Grow up you big fat cry babies.

The only other aspects that ive seen (as i said earlier) are people like the man pictured, that are so obese that they have a hard time concealing, people who want to strut around, or (also as the man pictured) people who want to carry a huge full sized weapon with 30 rounds?

And again your reasoning results to personal attacks.

As already mentioned, carrying a firearm on your own property with or without a license. Not having to worry about the wind, blowing a cover garment. Hot having to worry about a cover garment riding up when you reach for something. Not having to worry about having to wear a cover garment. Being able to take a jacket off when sitting down to eat. Disabled persons who could have a hard time concealing. Women who don't want to carry in their purse (women's clothing is generally a tighter fit than a man's). Comfort, I can now tuck my shirt in so I don't have to get rubbed if I'm not wearing 2 shirts.

I don't pocket carry, I find it cumbersome and don't like the extra weight in my pockets. I also don't carry IWB, don't want to have to buy pants an extra size larger than I need. I carry a full size 45 OWB, always have...that's what is most comfortable to me.

[kelroy55]

In today's paper Business owners approach open carry law differently, many wait and see | NewsOK.com

[WilliamTell]

Not having to worry about the wind, blowing a cover garment. Hot having to worry about a cover garment riding up when you reach for something. Not having to worry about having to wear a cover garment. Being able to take a jacket off when sitting down to eat. Disabled persons who could have a hard time concealing. Women who don't want to carry in their purse (women's clothing is generally a tighter fit than a man's). Comfort, I can now tuck my shirt in so I don't have to get rubbed if I'm not wearing 2 shirts.

I don't pocket carry, I find it cumbersome and don't like the extra weight in my pockets. I also don't carry IWB, don't want to have to buy pants an extra size larger than I need. I carry a full size 45 OWB, always have...that's what is most comfortable to me.

Most of those are bs and you and I both know it. So, having to buy pants larger, what did you do for the last 10-15 years?

O my. The inconvenience of pocket weight what ever shall we do - are you really that feeble, hard to imagine you operating a weapon with a 4-5lb trigger since you have such a hard time carrying around a few pounds in your pocket ?

Whatever happened to other men actually acting like men.

[hrdware]

Most of those are bs and you and I both know it. So, having to buy pants larger, what did you do for the last 10-15 years?

O my. The inconvenience of pocket weight what ever shall we do - are you really that feeble, hard to imagine you operating a weapon with a 4-5lb trigger since you have such a hard time carrying around a few pounds in your pocket ?

Whatever happened to other men actually acting like men.

They are only BS because you see them that way. I have always had choices on how to carry and I chose to carry OWB. Now I can tuck my shirt in and you don't like the fact that people can do that. Surely it must be more than the 1/16 inch of fabric covering my firearm that has kept us safe all these years.

[WilliamTell]

Now I can tuck my shirt in and you don't like the fact that people can do that. Surely it must be more than the 1/16 inch of fabric covering my firearm that has kept us safe all these years.

You could always tuck your shirt in, its called using a pocket.

The second part is exactly my point. Some people chose to act that they were completely neutered because a piece of fabric separated them from their weapon. As i said before, how hard is it to reach into your own pocket?

Unless you are into skinny jeans. Then i completely understand.

[hrdware]

You could always tuck your shirt in, its called using a pocket.

The second part is exactly my point. Some people chose to act that they were completely neutered because a piece of fabric separated them from their weapon. As i said before, how hard is it to reach into your own pocket?

Unless you are into skinny jeans. Then i completely understand.

What part of "I don't like pocket carry" are you not getting? I chose a different style of carry that would not allow me to tuck my shirt in. It was more comfortable to me than pocket carry.

If you like it, and you pocket carry, great. But don't tell me I should pocket carry when I'm not a fan of it. I've tried it several times and I just plain old don't like it.

[hrdware]

The "fear" factor isn't hard to grasp here guys.

If someone walked onto a train with a machete strapped to his side, would you feel all at ease?

It is a little disingenuous to call people overly sensitive because they feel uneasy about seeing weapons that are pretty much exclusively used for violent purposes (justified or not) openly "brandished".

That is my main gripe. I don't think we benefit as a society when violent weapons are commonplace in public places.

I've seen enough old western movies. ;-)



PS this is coming from a combat vet. So please, please don't assume I'm somehow afraid of guns. It is all about context.

You are correct, the fear factor isn't hard to see. Most people will be afraid of anything that doesn't fit their perception of "normal", however everyone is different and perceives things differently. Most people wouldn't even notice the machete strapped on to someones side.

I have been carrying open since 1 November. I have had 2 people comment on it, and neither to me. First was about a 4 year old behind me in line at the pharmacy...pointed it out to his dad. Second was about a 6 year old who was standing in line behind me at Subway. He said something to his mom who then asked if he was "freaked out no that he new it was there" to which he told her no. I can't believe that the majority of people saw my firearm and just chose to not say anything about it.

By definition, in order to brandish a firearm, one would have to walk around with their hip stuck out, wiggling it around in order to draw attention to it. Carrying a firearm in a holster, minding your own business is not brandishing. If it were, we would have some serious inconsistencies in our law.

I don't see an issue with weapons being commonplace in public area. An armed society is a polite society. We have become so desensitized to the criminal element we don't bat an eye at that any longer so it will eventually get to the point that no one will care about open carry any more either.

[MadMonk]

I don't think it harms society at all to become more comfortable with the sight of ordinary citizens enjoying the freedom to carry their weapon without fear of government reprisals. The more comfortable society becomes with the sight of weapons being handled responsibility, the better.

The problem is that so many people in society are conditioned to fear the sight of a weapon, regardless of whether its under the control of a responsible person or not.

[MadMonk]

But this isn't about need, its about the freedom to do as you please as long as it doesn't harm others. I don't need a pair of nickel plated .45s on each hip, but if I want to carry them in a peaceful, nonthreatening manner, who are you (you as in society) to tell me I can't?

Its sad that society wants to go in the direction that forces conformity upon those who are doing no harm to others, or treat grown adults like they are children that need protection from themselves.

[PennyQuilts]

If I saw someone waiving around a gun like a maniac, talking loud, acting in a hostile manner, acting the fool, etc., it would make me nervous as all get out that he had a gun. And I think that is a reasonable worry. But let's be real - I would worry regardless of whether I saw that he had a gun. He could be concealing it or he could be the kind apt to grab a nearby rock and use it on someone. It might worry some that he had access to a gun (with easy deadly force) but, speaking just for myself, any public act of violence is scary as hell and I don't really have much of a sliding scale.

If I see someone with open carry minding their own business, not acting nuts, not being aggressive, I just don't see how concern about the gun is rational. Do I think he is suddenly going to snap, pull out the gun and start shooting? Will it go off by itself? Will someone lurch over and grab it out of their holster? I just don't see it.

It is all about context, seems to me. Given that CC has been around for ages with no problem, open carry isn't the deciding factor unless I am just fixated on guns. People can also be mean as a junk yard dog with big fists yet I can't recall ever a time in my life when I observed someone, out of the blue, just haul off and punch someone. And maybe that life experience colors my reaction. If people can control their fists, I would expect them to be able to control their guns. I also think the fact that I know responsible people with guns is a big factor in not being so nervous. If I have a preconceived notion - like some - that people carry out of aggression or hostility, I might decide that the ones with a gun are already predisposed to use it. That would be a "logical" fear if that is a basic premise but my personal experience is that the ones with guns, legally, tend to be cautious about keeping their temper.

[PennyQuilts]

The reasons people wont like it is simple. Humans desire survival above all else. Most modern societies view weapons as tools of crime or sport, except when carried by those in uniform. Any variation in that normalcy, is going to be viewed as a potential threat.

What I can't understand is why open carry advocates fail to see that.

The reason open carry advocates fail to see that is that they don't accept your basic premise that "society" views the mere act of open carry as a potential threat. Yes, many people feel that way but most of the ones who do are people who either believe they are in safe areas, or who rely on police to protect them and don't feel the need for personal self defense beyond avoiding dark alleys or locks on their doors.

The vast majority of people that I know who are open carry advocates are concerned about self defense - NOT using a gun to commit a crime and not sport unless they are at the shooting range. To them, open carry serves as a deterrent to crime. That may be realistic or it may not - but it goes to their mindset and if you don't understand that, you will be confused as to why they do what they do. And there are huge, huge, huge numbers of people who feel this way. To the OC advocates, the gun is not a vehicle for crime unless it is in the hand of a criminal - and in that case, open carry is intended to defuse a potentially bad situation by sending a predator on to easier prey. The fundamental notion of self defense was recognized by the Supremes as the justification for the second amendment in the first place.

And the fact is, everyone in our society wants guns for protection - either in their own hands or in the hands of the police. And no one wants guns in the hands of criminals. If they feel relatively safe or are passive, they often leave it to the police. If they live in rural areas or in areas of high crime, they are far more likely to believe that self defense and defense of their family comes down to them. And open carry is viewed as a deterrent to crime - not a vehicle for crime.

Personally, I can't imagine telling a responsible person that they can't carry because it makes me nervous. I would feel like I would share some of the blame if, as a result of my sensibilities, I set them up for being attacked by a criminal.

[Bill Robertson]

The "fear" factor isn't hard to grasp here guys.

If someone walked onto a train with a machete strapped to his side, would you feel all at ease?

It is a little disingenuous to call people overly sensitive because they feel uneasy about seeing weapons that are pretty much exclusively used for violent purposes (justified or not) openly "brandished".

That is my main gripe. I don't think we benefit as a society when violent weapons are commonplace in public places.

I've seen enough old western movies. ;-)



PS this is coming from a combat vet. So please, please don't assume I'm somehow afraid of guns. It is all about context.

Back to a point I made earlier. Your theoretical machete has been carried by many of us for many years. Only concealed. So isn't saying "It's there but it's OK if I just don't see it" somewhat akin to sticking one's head in the sand? I wonder how many people would be shocked to find out how often they've been within arms length of a concealed firearm and not known it.

[Bill Robertson]

You could always tuck your shirt in, its called using a pocket.

The second part is exactly my point. Some people chose to act that they were completely neutered because a piece of fabric separated them from their weapon. As i said before, how hard is it to reach into your own pocket?

Unless you are into skinny jeans. Then i completely understand.

I'm with hdware. I carry a model 26 "baby" glock. I also wear loose, comfy Wrangler jeans. Between keys, phone, billfold, change, etc. there isn't a way to conveniently, comfortably carry the gun in a pocket.

[kevinpate]

in the fwiw category:

a firearm on the hip in a holster is not being brandished. It's visible, sure, but simply being visible is not brandishing.

a firearm visible on the hop in a holster is not a bigger threat to John Q than the same firearm tucked under a jacket, in a purse or a pants pocket. If anything, it's less of a threat. If one feels a need they can easily monitor its inert status to see if if there is a change in location.

People keep talking about officers in uniform. Lots of plains clothes folks in law enforcement carry openly. I'm not recalling folks popping up and leaving out of stores or eateries when these folks appeared, even if they appeared in a group. They often do travel in small groups you know.

I choose not to carry, but those who do, openly or otherwise, don't give me any heartburn. Excess pepper on the other hand .....

[PennyQuilts]

I'm with hdware. I carry a model 26 "baby" glock. I also wear loose, comfy Wrangler jeans. Between keys, phone, billfold, change, etc. there isn't a way to conveniently, comfortably carry the gun in a pocket.

Pants pockets simply don't work for women. We're lucky if we get a three inch front jean pocket, top to bottom, and if there is room for a slim credit card holder you are doing pretty well but you won't be able to sit down. And that isn't just fat women - skinny women generally have even less room because they get jeans that fit closer. No woman wears baggy front pockets - it just isn't the way they're made. No way can you carry a gun in a front pocket and the back pocket is an even worse idea. So unless you carry a purse, that leaves us with a holster that needs to be covered for CC (and our jackets tend to be too short), a flash bang holster or a pocket of a jacket. None of those are particularly comfortable in warm weather. I do like the trend towards a pocket on the leg and have considered adding a few to my old jeans. Cargo pants have similar pockets but they sure are ugly.

[ThomPaine]

Back to a point I made earlier. Your theoretical machete has been carried by many of us for many years. Only concealed. So isn't saying "It's there but it's OK if I just don't see it" somewhat akin to sticking one's head in the sand? I wonder how many people would be shocked to find out how often they've been within arms length of a concealed firearm and not known it.

Or shocked to find out they've been within an arms length of a black belt in martial arts, or an MMA fighter, or a boxer, or just a badass. The difference is, those guys don't walk around with their robes and black belts, or wearing their mouthpieces, or gloves. They don't have to. They know they can take care of themselves and others if they have to, much like most normal folks I know who carry concealed.

Just as I would wonder about anyone's true skills if they walked around barefoot in a white robe acting like Bruce Lee, so too will I wonder (and chuckle) when I see somebody walking around like John Wayne.

[Bill Robertson]

Or shocked to find out they've been within an arms length of a black belt in martial arts, or an MMA fighter, or a boxer, or just a badass. The difference is, those guys don't walk around with their robes and black belts, or wearing their mouthpieces, or gloves. They don't have to. They know they can take care of themselves and others if they have to, much like most normal folks I know who carry concealed.

Just as I would wonder about anyone's true skills if they walked around barefoot in a white robe acting like Bruce Lee, so too will I wonder (and chuckle) when I see somebody walking around like John Wayne.

Also true. Which is why I will continue carrying concealed even though lobbied heavily for open carry. I will also continue with lots of range practice and refresher force on force courses. I really try to be one who looks and carries myself as totally harmless but could take care of myself if I had to.

[soonerguru]

Saw my first at Crest grocery store. Not sure if they have a "no weapons allowed" sign or not, but it was a bit startling. What was weird was he had this angry scowl on his face and glared at everyone around him. Not suggesting he's anything less than a "responsible gun owner" but it kind of gave me the creeps.

[MadMonk]

I noticed a guy wearing what I think was a Glock 36 yesterday at this little Thai place I went for lunch. I need to look into getting one of those. It was pretty slim and didn't stick out much, even though his holster was an "outside the waistband" type. Seems ideal for conceal carry.

I just realized an unintended consequence of open carry. Gun envy. It's going to wreak havoc on my budget.

[WilliamTell]

Saw my first at Crest grocery store. Not sure if they have a "no weapons allowed" sign or not, but it was a bit startling. What was weird was he had this angry scowl on his face and glared at everyone around him. Not suggesting he's anything less than a "responsible gun owner" but it kind of gave me the creeps.

I had a similar experience and I think that's why the law has left such a bad taste in my mouth. Im not advocating taking it away, but as i've always stated its designed to cater to the already angry and parioniod who act like they have something to prove. I'm still waiting for the first run in of two open carry people. I'm interested in how the public and law will view how much a threat either person determined that the other person was....

What i liked about concealed carry was that you had to physically take your weapon out of the concealed holster to be viewed as a threat. Now where is that line, as soon as someone places there hand on / or moves their hand toward their weapon while they are standing there?

I haven't seen any explanation as to when/what crosses the line.

I've seen 1 older 300lb man open carrying at harbor freight and he was proudly standing there like a peacock making sure everyone could see him. He seemed more likely to die of a heart attack than some bad guy coming after him but i knew this law was going to be attractive to that type of people who are trying to show how bad ass they are.

[PennyQuilts]

Some people are just angry and paranoid, I agree with that...

[RadicalModerate]

Saw my first at Crest grocery store. Not sure if they have a "no weapons allowed" sign or not, but it was a bit startling. What was weird was he had this angry scowl on his face and glared at everyone around him. Not suggesting he's anything less than a "responsible gun owner" but it kind of gave me the creeps.

Maybe he was picking up on all the bad vibes--even unspoken--from most of the rest of the shoppers.
Maybe he was actually hearing voices in his head saying things like: "What a friggin' jerk . . ." "Oooo a civilian Barney Fife . . ." "I'll bet he has a small . . ."

[kevinpate]

Some people are just angry and paranoid, I agree with that...

And some of them even quote their own words to suppport their paranoia