Friends for a Better Boulevard

[Urban Pioneer]

Article link. It was on the front page of the early edition and Sundays print.

http://newsok.com/critics-attack-okl...rticle/3692562

[soonerguru]

Article link. It was on the front page of the early edition and Sundays print.

http://newsok.com/critics-attack-okl...rticle/3692562

You cannot read the article unless you're a subscriber. I guess the Oklahoman has gone "behind the wall." Too bad they chose this story, as people aren't likely to read it.

Can Steve arrange for Pete to run the full story?

[Tier2City]

I can get to the link on a mobile device...

[Steve]

You cannot read the article unless you're a subscriber. I guess the Oklahoman has gone "behind the wall." Too bad they chose this story, as people aren't likely to read it.

Can Steve arrange for Pete to run the full story?

No. But everyone can read it tomorrow. The Oklahoman has not gone behind a pay wall - yet. We are giving subscribers first access to what's deemed premium content posted at www.oklahoman.com. An online subscription costs $12 a month (I am a paying subscriber myself). Not really that horrible a price. Those who don't want to subscribe can go the corner store and pick up a copy of the paper, which has maps and other info that won't be included with the NewsOK version. The Oklahoman is the only major newspaper in Oklahoma that hasn't gone to a full paywall. The Journal Record has long had a paywall, ditto for the Tulsa World & Lawton Constitution. Also ditto for the Wall Street Journal, New York Times and Dallas Morning News. The Oklahoman's approach, right now, is not to have a paywall, but rather to reward subscribers by giving them first access and making others wait. As for the mobile access - I suspect that's a glitch that will soon be addressed...

[wsucougz]

Why are we even doing a boulevard, again?

[catcherinthewry]

There is $15 million in the 2007 City GO bond to deal with aspects of the ODOT plan that the city may not like. This project falls perfectly within the parameters of what that money is for.

This is only partially true. There was money set aside for for street improvements, but that was for a much broader area than just the boulevard and I've been told that most of that has been spent on Project 180.

[SouthwestAviator]

If that is true, it hasn't been even remotely disclosed as of yet to Council members or the general public.

I would suspect though, that there would be enough funds to properly study the issue.

Either way, your comments, if accurate, demonstrate the huge need for more disclosure about what is really going on.

[Buffalo Bill]

And yes, the scale of the roundabout would affect wheter it encroached outside the exiting right-of-way. What they say would be necessary is excessively large, I warrant intentionally to make such a concept appear less viable.

I must have missed in Steve's article where ODOT said what the right of way needs for a roundabout would be. Could you point that out?

When you say excessively large, do you mean larger than the 18.5 square blocks which are shown on the Market Circle renderings?

[Buffalo Bill]

Interestingly enough, the Horn Trader building would be toast under just about any roundabout scenario.

[SouthwestAviator]

Interestingly enough, the Horn Trader building would be toast under just about any roundabout scenario.

The Horn Trader location would not be affected as the Rounabout woud be more to the south and westt. Our proposed Roundabouts is not as large as a traffic circle, requiring little additional ROW acquisition and little disruption of business.

[SouthwestAviator]

Nm

[OKCisOK4me]

I just don't see why they have to keep the earthen embankment all the way to Western. Its not like they can't bring it down to at grade after passing over Reno with the west interchange flyover connectors.

[Buffalo Bill]

The Horn Trader location would not be affected as the Rounabout woud be more to the south and east. Our proposed Roundabouts is not as large as a traffic circle, requiring little additional ROW acquisition and little disruption of business.

So the cuatrodemayo rendition is in the trashcan? What's the latest?

[SouthwestAviator]

Nope. Not at all. But any drawing right now that, whether it's ODOT's chicken scratch, or a volunteer's dreaming is going to be conceptual until there is a full assessment done of the realities on the ground.

Cuatro's concepts illustrate what "thinking outside the box" could potentially do for our community.

I like Horn Traders, and I'm sure that with the right sensitivity to "the approaches" and the exact location and size of the roundabout scaled appropriately, an ideal design can be found.

[CuatrodeMayo]

To be clear, the roundabout version we have proposed is conceptual in nature. There are many flaws and other issues that would have to be addressed should idea ever get off the ground (pun intended). At that point there will be discussion about which streets feed into the roundabout, how wide it is, etc. We would need to take the time to meet with all stakeholders and the public and go through a significant design process. The Market Circle is intended to be a visual aid to communicate an idea to our leaders and the public. It is by no means the perfect solution, but instead one suggested alternative to an elevated boulevard.

Edit: Yes, what Bob said.

[catcherinthewry]

I just don't see why they have to keep the earthen embankment all the way to Western. Its not like they can't bring it down to at grade after passing over Reno with the west interchange flyover connectors.

With the convergence of Western, Classen, Exchange, Reno and California a flyover bridge or a circle/roundabout is the only solution. There would be way too many intersections in a short span for ground level boulevard.

[betts]

In many cities, a "Fivepoints" area was a key location for early development, and a lot of them are experiencing a resurgence. "Little Five" in Atlanta is one of my favorites.

[jn1780]

I just don't see why they have to keep the earthen embankment all the way to Western. Its not like they can't bring it down to at grade after passing over Reno with the west interchange flyover connectors.

If we were going to do that it would have made more sense to just build the ramp directly to Reno. Keeping everything at grade would just slow down all those cross streets and the boulevard. Building nothing at all would be better then doing that.

[Buffalo Bill]

In many cities, a "Fivepoints" area was a key location for early development, and a lot of them are experiencing a resurgence. "Little Five" in Atlanta is one of my favorites.

Okc could have it's 9 points area.

[jn1780]

"City Council members only recently learned that the 80 million Boulevard would be more elevated then previously thought..."

ODOT had this map floating for several years now even before construction on the interstate started. http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/newsm...dor-Aerial.pdf

It was pretty obvious what ODOT had in mind. Now ODOT has "time leverage" on their side since most people just now figured out what is going on.

[Buffalo Bill]

If we were going to do that it would have made more sense to just build the ramp directly to Reno. Keeping everything at grade would just slow down all those cross streets and the boulevard. Building nothing at all would be better then doing that.

It looks like the clock is ticking pretty quickly on this, as according to Steve's article, the Penn to Western section lets to Contract next month.

[Buffalo Bill]

The Horn Trader location would not be affected as the Rounabout woud be more to the south and westt. Our proposed Roundabouts is not as large as a traffic circle, requiring little additional ROW acquisition and little disruption of business.

Still looking for your proposed roundabout that "requires little additional ROW acquisition and little disruption of business."

Not possible.

[Buffalo Bill]

[QUOTE=jn1780;555452 It was pretty obvious what ODOT had in mind. Now ODOT has "time leverage" on their side since most people just now figured out what is going on.[/QUOTE]

City Council and you folks sound as bad as the HH residents and the development of "The Edge".

[king183]

This is absurd. It's clear ODOT has learned nothing from the development disaster that was I-40. But that's not surprising. The biggest benefit to removing the old Crosstown bridge was that it would remove the unnatural barrier between downtown and the Core to Shore area. That barrier caused blight and hindered business development. Now they want to repeat the exact same mistake. It's almost unbelievable.

They say it will take more money and a couple more years if they were to do a roundabout. I'd prefer to spend the time and money right now to get the damn thing right, rather than build another failure that will last for another 50 years.

[SouthwestAviator]

"City Council members only recently learned that the 80 million Boulevard would be more elevated then previously thought..."

It was pretty obvious what ODOT had in mind. Now ODOT has "time leverage" on their side since most people just now figured out what is going on.

Actually, they don't. They don't have their final environmental document as they have no final plans, particularly for the areas of controversy.

Regarding the City Council, if you think that individuals who are paid $12,000 a year, are going to give up their own personal business time, to scour every public project on their own, then your in a different place my friend.

Buffalo Bill, regarding "Not possible" OKC has pioneered property acquisition and relocation in Urban Renewal and MAPS. For the small additional area necessary, we see very few conflicts of which most can elegantly be solved.

ODOT builds by convention. You should know because your enmeshed in their conventionality process. But this is ultimately a city street. We have a fundamental right to have a say in how it is built.