1. #76

    Default Re: Smoking Laws

    2nd hand smoke kills people it is not "blown out of proportion"

  2. #77

    Default Re: Smoking Laws

    workers rights should not go away

  3. #78

    Default Re: Smoking Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by oneforone View Post
    The whole no smoking initiative has gotten way out of hand. I can understand the movement to encourage people not to smoke however, the effects of second hand smoke are blown out of proportion. Most of the people in my family are smokers (most of them chain smokers) and my lungs are healthy as any person who has never been around it accept in the company of strangers.
    You're sure about that? Someone has taken a look? With a bronchoscope? You've had pulmonary function testing? You got an unconditional guarantee of good health for the forseeable future from your doctor? I don't know how old you are, but I'd probably hold off on absolutes for a few years.

    Quote Originally Posted by oneforone View Post
    When you lose you three people to emphysema in the family it sends a strong message to quit. Like everything else in life you decide on your own when to stop doing certain things. Busy body lectures have no effect on you. You just roll your eyes and walk away or tune the person out and nod your head as if you agree with them.
    I don't think we're talking about lectures. I believe we are discussing legally limiting where smokers can smoke around nonsmokers.

    Quote Originally Posted by oneforone View Post
    At some point you have to respect the fact that other people enjoy the things you don't. I hate rap music but, I don't scream turn it down when my neighbors blare it at 3 in the afternoon. I hate the smell of some restaurants however, I don't start crusades to ban them.
    Actually, if someone is blaring rap music at a decibel level that will injure your hearing, it is your business and has nothing to do with what they enjoy. We're not discussing likes and dislikes. We're discussing health.

    Quote Originally Posted by oneforone View Post
    We have to stop this banning this and banning that nonsense. People will do whatever they want to do. If we fully embrace the idea that second hand smoke is nuisance what's next? Banning BBQ grills because vegans and vegetarians don't like the smell of fresh meat cooking. Banning the consumption of meat because seeing other people consume it may be offensive to others.

    Where does it stop? Sometimes you just have to follow the advice good parents used to tell their children. Address the issue or ignore it/ or improvise, adapt, overcome.

    You always have the option of politely asking someone to step downwind from you, stepping downwind from the person or just moving to another area.

    I think all the information/over inflated information about smoking causes people to think they are comfortable when they in reality they are not effected. Kind of like when you find out someone near you has head lice or your dog has fleas. You start itching thinking they are all over you.
    And don't get me started on parents who expose their children to cigarette smoke. Children are usually ignored when they politely ask their parents to step downwind or quit. Born and unborn babies don't have a chance to ask their parents to stop smoking. One could argue that it is child abuse. I'm sure that will get people riled up, but, if your baby dies of SIDS because you smoked while pregnant, is that really much different than a baby who dies because his or her mother took drugs while pregnant?

    A little food for thought:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK44318/

  4. Default Re: Smoking Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Questor View Post
    I wonder if the smokers would be as forgiving if I lived next to them and decided to build a huge ham radio antenna on my property that blasted out, into all directions, massive amounts of high-GHz electromagnetic radiation.
    You'd be affecting yourself too so whatever. People that live below power lines can't do anything about it.

  5. #80
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    Default Re: Smoking Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCisOK4me View Post
    I should be able to go out in public areas and enjoy lighting up a smoke. I don't understand why non smokers have a hard time understanding this.
    All of my relatives on both sides of the family who made it past age 80 did not smoke. I don't smoke. When you think in order to have a more enjoyable life means doing something that can shorten your life, don't expect everyone else nearby to join in on your enthusiasm.

  6. #81

    Default Re: Smoking Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunty View Post
    All of my relatives on both sides of the family who made it past age 80 did not smoke. I don't smoke. When you think in order to have a more enjoyable life means doing something that can shorten your life, don't expect everyone else nearby to join in on your enthusiasm.
    LOL, true.

  7. #82

    Default Re: Smoking Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by oneforone View Post
    The whole no smoking initiative has gotten way out of hand. I can understand the movement to encourage people not to smoke however, the effects of second hand smoke are blown out of proportion. Most of the people in my family are smokers (most of them chain smokers) and my lungs are healthy as any person who has never been around it accept in the company of strangers. My only complaint is the smell on my clothes when I come home after a family function. The good news is most are quitting because of the disease factors not because of any ban. When you lose you three people to emphysema in the family it sends a strong message to quit. Like everything else in life you decide on your own when to stop doing certain things. Busy body lectures have no effect on you. You just roll your eyes and walk away or tune the person out and nod your head as if you agree with them.

    At some point you have to respect the fact that other people enjoy the things you don't. I hate rap music but, I don't scream turn it down when my neighbors blare it at 3 in the afternoon. I hate the smell of some restaurants however, I don't start crusades to ban them.

    We have to stop this banning this and banning that nonsense. People will do whatever they want to do. If we fully embrace the idea that second hand smoke is nuisance what's next? Banning BBQ grills because vegans and vegetarians don't like the smell of fresh meat cooking. Banning the consumption of meat because seeing other people consume it may be offensive to others.

    Where does it stop? Sometimes you just have to follow the advice good parents used to tell their children. Address the issue or ignore it/ or improvise, adapt, overcome.

    You always have the option of politely asking someone to step downwind from you, stepping downwind from the person or just moving to another area.

    I think all the information/over inflated information about smoking causes people to think they are comfortable when they in reality they are not effected. Kind of like when you find out someone near you has head lice or your dog has fleas. You start itching thinking they are all over you.
    Secondhand smoke kills. That's not an opinion, that's reality. Secondhand meat doesn't.

  8. Default Re: Smoking Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by HewenttoJared View Post
    Secondhand smoke kills. That's not an opinion, that's reality. Secondhand meat doesn't.
    + 100 ...just had a friend die from cancer, wasn't pretty...she had been a long term smoker.

  9. #84

    Default Re: Kevin Durant Restaurant in LBT

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    When you have a restaurant or bar, you become a public space, which I am free to visit as I wish. When you allow smoking in these places you are filling up the public air with harmful smoke, which is infringing on my rights. That's how I view it. Also, you are always free to go outside and smoke, you won't be losing your right to smoke.

    On top of this, it's been shown that most establishments increase their business when smoking is banned.
    All business owners have a right to refuse service to anyone for any reason.

  10. #85

    Default Re: Smoking Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    A law banning smoking is just as intrusive as a law mandating that smoking be allowed? That's just a ridiculous comparison and you can't compare the two. And you can go into the health risks even though alcohol is sold. Alcohol isnt a factor here because if someone next to me is having a drink it doesn't affect my health. Not true with smoking.

    Simply put, eating and drinking establishments are public places, and I have a right to go to a public place and not be subjected to smoke.
    Why would you want to go to a place where you are not welcome?

  11. #86

    Default Re: Smoking Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by PHXguyinOKC View Post
    I do understand the effects of second hand smoke, but I make the choice to go into that bar and be around it. It's just as simple for someone to choose to not go into that bar because of the smoke and go some place that is smoke free. If governments keep banning things, where does it stop? That's my main concern.
    Oh, and anything is potentially lethal... too much water, too much sun exposure, too much Micky D's. The mortality rate of humans is holding steady at 100%.
    good debate... except for a little name calling
    The problem with non smokers is that they want to control everyone else.

  12. #87

    Default Re: Smoking Laws

    I am very polite and caring when I smoke to the people around me until they decide to make a big deal out of it and that is when I decide to not care anymore and will give my best effort to get them to leave.

  13. Default Re: Smoking Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by WATCHER View Post
    The problem with non smokers is that they want to control everyone else.
    NO ! They just want to control the air they breath............ nothing wrong with that.

  14. #89

    Default Re: Kevin Durant Restaurant in LBT

    Quote Originally Posted by WATCHER View Post
    All business owners have a right to refuse service to anyone for any reason.
    It's still a public space

  15. #90

    Default Re: Kevin Durant Restaurant in LBT

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    It's still a public space
    You sir are correct, which means it for the entire public to enjoy, not just smokers!!!

  16. #91

    Default Re: Kevin Durant Restaurant in LBT

    Quote Originally Posted by Bellaboo View Post
    What right do you have to screw up the air that I breath ? If I have the right to be there, then I should have the right to breath clean air.....period.
    If a business allows smoking I have every right to smoke in that business. Why do people who moan and groan about smoking go into a business that allows smoking? People like that seem to have personal control issues in my opinion. The seen to expect the red carpet treatment when they enter a business and expect other to react to them for some reason.

  17. #92

    Default Re: Smoking Laws

    The people who throw spastic fits about smoking have bought into the propaganda that fills the airways about smoking. It is a form of brainwashing and weak minded people are easily brainwashed.

  18. #93

    Default Re: Smoking Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by WATCHER View Post
    The people who throw spastic fits about smoking have bought into the propaganda that fills the airways about smoking. It is a form of brainwashing and weak minded people are easily brainwashed.
    You've allowed yourself to become addicted to one of the most addictive substances around, either through peer pressure or because you bought in to the advertising, and now you're lecturing people about the weak minded? That's rich.

  19. Default Re: Smoking Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by WATCHER View Post
    I am very polite and caring when I smoke to the people around me until they decide to make a big deal out of it and that is when I decide to not care anymore and will give my best effort to get them to leave.
    If you were truly being 'polite and caring' then they wouldn't be making a 'big deal out of it.' But, obviously if they have to smell it and inhale it then you're not being 'polite and caring.'

    Of course the best part is, you can whine and cry all you want about it, but you (and other smokers) keep getting pushed further and further into irrelevance.

    Your rights end where mine begin.

  20. #95

    Default Re: Smoking Laws

    I'm an ex smoker, except for a cigar now and then, but I still think the owner should have the right to decide if they allow smoking or not. It should be clear for anybody that wants to work or go in there it allows smoking so you are either working or being there at your own risk. Nobody is forcing an employee to work at a business that allows smoking nor are non smokers being forced to give that establishment their business. If you don't like smoking then don't give that place your business or don't apply for a job there. Let folks take some responsibility for themselves instead of making everybody do it.

  21. #96

    Default Re: Smoking Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by WATCHER View Post
    The people who throw spastic fits about smoking have bought into the propaganda that fills the airways about smoking. It is a form of brainwashing and weak minded people are easily brainwashed.
    You sir or madam, are at best exceptionally ignorant or being deliberately obtuse.

    My daughter is the only one of her friends who doesn't smoke. That's because her daddy took her on rounds with him at the hospital. At age 4, she went up to someone who was smoking and said, "Don't you know if you do that they cut your face off?" Turns out one of of the patients they'd seen that morning had had a hemi-facectomy for oropharyngeal cancer. From smoking. She was only 4, but she was a quick learner.

  22. #97

    Default Re: Smoking Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Bellaboo View Post
    + 100 ...just had a friend die from cancer, wasn't pretty...she had been a long term smoker.
    Ok, so that's a statement supporting smoking kills, not secondhand. In fact, I see person after person in this thread talking about how long those non-smokers they know or in their families have lived. Did they really manage to never be around smokers? Especially since, if you lived past 80 (hell if you're over 40) you lived in times that many restaurants/business were full smoking. How are all those poor people who were exposed to second hand smoke living to be 80+, and all those smokers dying so young? Should those non-smokers die young too?

    Not that I think secondhand smoke is harmless. I pretty much accept that it's dangerous. I'm a non-smoker with asthma, and I'm pretty sure it's from my father's smoking. I just see over and over again in this discussion people using a smoker dying or non-smokers living as some sort of proof that second hand smoke kills. I don't see the logic connect.

  23. #98
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    Default Re: Smoking Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by wallbreaker View Post
    Ok, so that's a statement supporting smoking kills, not secondhand. In fact, I see person after person in this thread talking about how long those non-smokers they know or in their families have lived. Did they really manage to never be around smokers? Especially since, if you lived past 80 (hell if you're over 40) you lived in times that many restaurants/business were full smoking. How are all those poor people who were exposed to second hand smoke living to be 80+, and all those smokers dying so young? Should those non-smokers die young too?

    Not that I think secondhand smoke is harmless. I pretty much accept that it's dangerous. I'm a non-smoker with asthma, and I'm pretty sure it's from my father's smoking. I just see over and over again in this discussion people using a smoker dying or non-smokers living as some sort of proof that second hand smoke kills. I don't see the logic connect.
    Probably most non smokers who lived past 80 never worked 8 hours, or more, a day in a confined place where smoke was usually visible in the air. Being a heavy drinker also tends to take years from your life.

  24. Default Re: Smoking Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by wallbreaker View Post
    I just see over and over again in this discussion people using a smoker dying or non-smokers living as some sort of proof that second hand smoke kills. I don't see the logic connect.
    This is all I really need..... http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...condhand-smoke Call it propaganda, but its from a respected source.

    I say let the smokers smoke - its just another way to thin out the herd. With the downside being the rest of us often have to pay their self-inflicted medical bills.

  25. #100

    Default Re: Smoking Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by BBatesokc View Post
    ---
    ---

    Call it propaganda, but its from a respected source.

    ---
    On the passive smoke fraud

    John Dunn, MD -- Article Published: 05/11/2008

    [...]The second hand smoke population studies are a secret joke in the epidemiology and public health field, because there is a devoted and fanatic group that knows they are playing with peopleís cancer and health fears. The fanatics of the church of the stubbed cigarette know that smoking prohibition can only be accomplished by the second hand smoke panic but the data and research for their crusade are weak and unreliable. They also know that the media make panicmongering an art form. So the fanatics exaggerate, have the suburban housewives and mothers as well as nervous politicians in a panic to protect the kids, the handsome and earnest physician on TV reads the claims that cigarette smoke is killing thousands of American kids in the streets, more deaths in America than you can imagine. Itís a wonder we havenít had violence, but that is so far.

    As an emergency physician, I am a toxicologist by training and necessity, I know that the anti smoking physicians are campaigning to eliminate cigarette smoking, and couldnít be bothered by a lack of good science on second hand smoke. Toxicology is about dose, and second hand smoke in its worst case is less than a cigarette a day. Smoking a cigarette a day is not a cancer or any other health risk, thanks to the fact that the dose is insignificant and bodies are not that fragile. The studies on health effects of ETS all show effects in small ranges below level of proof[...]

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