Open Carry Law Set to Pass

[LandRunOkie]

http://newsok.com/article/3655490

I'm trying to think of a reason this would be a good idea. With the Ersland case still fresh on people's minds regarding the misuse of the make my day law, what kind of psychos would make use of this new law?

It basically comes down to First Amendment v. Second Amendment. Will people feel free to express their views publicly when someone is brandishing a weapon in their presence? And by the way, I'm also a pretty good shot. This isn't just a political issue, its also about ideals.

[LandRunOkie]

+1

[MDot]

+1

Did you just +1 yourself? Or did someone's post get deleted?

[RadicalModerate]

I can't figure out why anyone would want everyone to know they are carrying a gun.
For one thing, it might be too big of a temptation for someone else to try to grab or steal the gun.
For another it removes the element of surprise.
(P.S. At this point in my life, I don't even own a pistol.
Would the open carry law apply to shotguns?)

Pancho was a bandit boy
His horse was fast as polished steel
Wore his gun outside his pants
For all the honest world to feel
Pancho met his match you know
On the deserts down in Mexico
Nobody heard his dying words
That's the way it goes
~Townes Van Zandt
"Pancho and Lefty"

[kevinpate]

I can't figure out why anyone would want everyone to know they are carrying a gun.
...
Would the open carry law apply to shotguns?)

(a) because it's a far more economical way to compensate than purchasing a shiny new sports car?

(b) Haven't read it through, but I don't think it does. Having gifted or otherwise disposed of all long guns many many moons back I haven't paid much attention to the requirements on rifles and shotguns.

[onthestrip]

I just dont understand this. We dont have to pass this to show our support for the 2nd ammendment, as some say. Getting a gun in OK is very easy as it is, and if you want to secretly carry it, you can with a permit. Why is it necessary that people need to carry it openly? Just seems ridiculous.

[hrdware]

I just dont understand this. We dont have to pass this to show our support for the 2nd ammendment, as some say. Getting a gun in OK is very easy as it is, and if you want to secretly carry it, you can with a permit. Why is it necessary that people need to carry it openly? Just seems ridiculous.

Actually we do need to pass this to support the 2A. The 2nd grants us the right to keep and bear arms and that right shall not be infringed. It does not say keep and bear concealed arms. Several years ago (like in the 70's) the legislature regulated the bearing of firearms practically out of existence and this bill simply restores some rights to law abiding citizens. I would have liked to see a constitutional carry bill pass but that would to much of a change for Oklahoma.

[BoulderSooner]

I just dont understand this. We dont have to pass this to show our support for the 2nd ammendment, as some say. Getting a gun in OK is very easy as it is, and if you want to secretly carry it, you can with a permit. Why is it necessary that people need to carry it openly? Just seems ridiculous.

why should we not be able to? honest ?

[onthestrip]

why should we not be able to? honest ?

Because its not necessary, no where does it say you have a right to openly carry in public, and makes those that are nearby a person openly carrying feel uneasy

[Bill Robertson]

Keep in mind similar measures were intoduced in 2010 and 2011. One never made it to the Governer and the other was vetoed and not overridden.

Why is it necessary that people need to carry it openly?

I don't think you'll see many, if any people openly carrying. I carry most of the time. I have a very good conceal rig and wear shirts a size or two too big. I'm for the new law just because it eliminates the possibility of someone, somehow seeing my firearm and calling the police. If they somehow see it then it isn't concealed. I would still conceal but I wouldn't have to worry about accidental exposure of the firearm. I would be just as happy if the current law added something about accidental exposure being acceptable if proper intent to conceal is there.

Would the open carry law apply to shotguns?

No. The new law would cover firearms currently allowed by the concealed carry law. This would mean handguns only.

[LandRunOkie]

There is a different governor this year, one much less likely to veto. So what you are saying is, because you don't want to talk to police if someone sees your gun, every person with the $50 and 8 hours it takes to take the class should be allowed to carry a gun in public view. All this just to keep from talking to police? What do you have to fear if your paperwork is legit?

[RadicalModerate]

+1
(i wondered that 2 =)

[kevinpate]

HB 2522, as amended and passed by the House, can be viewed at any of the following (all go to the same location):

http://preview.tinyurl.com/HB2522

http://tinyurl.com/HB2522
http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf...522%20ENGR.DOC

[LandRunOkie]

I self-bumped so people would see the thread from the main page.

[MDot]

I self-bumped so people would see the thread from the main page.

LOL, oh, okay.

[Roadhawg]

I'm trying to think of a reason this would be a good idea.

Might speed up the Wal-Mart lines

[MDot]

Might speed up the Wal-Mart lines

Haha, this made me laugh after seeing your other thread.

[hrdware]

So the whole reason I joined this site was due to this thread. A friend of mine told me about it so I figured I come on by and debunk some of the myths associated with open carry.

I'm trying to think of a reason this would be a good idea. With the Ersland case still fresh on people's minds regarding the misuse of the make my day law, what kind of psychos would make use of this new law?

First, the open carry of firearms would be tied to the current concealed carry permit (SDA permit). While the Ersland case may be fresh on people's minds, it has nothing to do with the SDA permit and should not be considered when talking about open carry.

As to why it's a good idea, there are a few I can think of:
Open Carry has proven to be a crime deterrent. There have been instances where the bad guy has left a potential target area after seeing someone who has been openly carrying. The most notable is a foiled Waffle House robbery in Kennesaw GA

The open carry provision helps out Law Abiding Citizens who currently conceal carry but the wind here in OK blows their coat up, or they reach for something on the top shelf at the store and their cover garment rides up to high.

The psychos that would take advantage of this new law are those of us who are law abiding citizens and carry concealed with our permit now. I guess since I choose to protect myself and my family instead of depending on the police (who I have a large amount of respect for) makes my thought process a bit different than the norm.

It basically comes down to First Amendment v. Second Amendment. Will people feel free to express their views publicly when someone is brandishing a weapon in their presence? And by the way, I'm also a pretty good shot. This isn't just a political issue, its also about ideals.

Who is it you think will be brandishing? Brandish means to shake or wave. No law abiding citizen will be doing that. The simple presence of a firearm does not make a crime. And this is purely a political issue. The US constitution provides us the right to keep and bear arms and that right, "shall not be infringed." Unfortunately the Oklahoma government made carrying a loaded firearm openly illegal years ago, thus infringing upon our rights. Now they are just correcting that over site. Personally I don't think this goes far enough to restore rights, but small steps.

I can't figure out why anyone would want everyone to know they are carrying a gun.

See above, it's a deterrent. And it is our constitutional right.

For one thing, it might be too big of a temptation for someone else to try to grab or steal the gun. For another it removes the element of surprise.

Gun grabs don't happen to the law abiding citizen. Gun grabs happen to police officers who are already involved in a confrontation. Bad guys don't want to get shot, they know that using a firearm is a last line of defense for an officer, but not for a law abiding citizen.

As for the surprise issue, that's why the criminals hide their guns, so they can surprise you with them when you least expect it. Oh, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that the criminal does not have a permit to carry concealed either. Again, open carry is a deterrent and without getting into a huge tactical debate over OC vs CC, OC allows for faster draw time in most cases.

(P.S. At this point in my life, I don't even own a pistol.
Would the open carry law apply to shotguns?)

No, the law specifies pistols carried in a belt or shoulder holster.

The same arguments are being made now as 17 years ago when the state first passed concealed carry...it's going to be the wild west....gunfights in the streets....bloodshed everywhere. It didn't happen 17 years ago and it won't happen if this bill passes either.

42 Other states have some form of open carry, some of those have no permit required open carry and they have none of the issues people would have you believe will happen here.

[BBatesokc]

One of many reasons I don't carry. All I need is someone knowing I carry a gun to call police and say they spotted it while I was at WalMart and my day is officially ruined.

[LandRunOkie]

Better to have a gun carrier's day ruined than innocent blood shed. And if you don't believe there is a correlation, why did NYC's firearm ban result in a dramatic drop in the homicide rate? That just goes to show that violence increases with access to guns. This law will definitely have unmeasurable implications if it passes.

[BBatesokc]

Better to have a gun carrier's day ruined than innocent blood shed. And if you don't believe there is a correlation, why did NYC's firearm ban result in a dramatic drop in the homicide rate? That just goes to show that violence increases with access to guns. This law will definitely have unmeasurable implications if it passes.

I'll file that under "the sky is falling." Considering virtually anyone who wants to carry can, I fail to see how open carry vs. concealed carry is going to dramatically increase homicide rates. Also, I've been in many open carry states and I have never actually seen anyone open carry in any of them.

There is also a huge difference between carry laws and a firearm ban.

[PennyQuilts]

I'll file that under "the sky is falling." Considering virtually anyone who wants to carry can, I fail to see how open carry vs. concealed carry is going to dramatically increase homicide rates. Also, I've been in many open carry states and I have never actually seen anyone open carry in any of them.

Same here. I understand they are pretty open about it in Arizona but I didn't see any of that when I visited so don't know if that is correct. Virginia is an open carry state - always has been - and I never saw a open carry in the ten years I lived there. Plenty of people had concealed carry permits (there are lots of military and former military) in the area but most people don't want to draw attention to the fact they are carrying if they can avoid it.

[LandRunOkie]

No the sky won't fall because this law passes. There will just be more early funerals and broken up families. And as I said before, the real effect is intimidation, not violence. And if no one carries openly in the open carry states, why take the risk of increased violence. The burden should be on the ones who want to carry guns.

[BBatesokc]

No the sky won't fall because this law passes. There will just be more early funerals and broken up families. And as I said before, the real effect is intimidation, not violence. And if no one carries openly in the open carry states, why take the risk of increased violence. The burden should be on the ones who want to carry guns.

Will there be 'some' (as in very few) instances of death because some loon who had no place carrying a gun does? Sure. Will there be a "dramatic increase (in) homicide rates" as you stated earlier - Absolutely not. Some people are killed by baseball bats, should we outlaw them too? Far more people are killed in this state by alcohol and cigarettes, did I miss your posts wanting those banned?

If we're going to allow guns to be carried, it matters little if there is a t-shirt over it. The mindset that caused the person to arm themselves in public is already there (i.e. Jerome Ersland). His gun was neither concealed on his body nor tethered to his hip and he is still a murderer in the eyes of the law.

[hrdware]

No the sky won't fall because this law passes. There will just be more early funerals and broken up families. And as I said before, the real effect is intimidation, not violence. And if no one carries openly in the open carry states, why take the risk of increased violence. The burden should be on the ones who want to carry guns.

Can you cite a source for your early funerals and broken families line? I doubt it therefore it is pure conjecture and speculation on your part. It doesn't happen elsewhere, why do you think other Oklahomans are less safe with firearms than people in other states. There are people who open carry in other states, just because you don't see them doesn't mean they don't. The human eye and brain work very hard to show you what you want and expect to see. Most people don't know that open carriers are doing so unless it is pointed out to them. And what is this risk of increased violence? Are you planning on attacking those of us who will open carry?? If so the violence will be on your part not ours, don't project your fears and actions onto us.