double post
double post
Excuse me, the only 'reasonable suspicion' in this case was someone calling 911 because the person was obviously following the law - which allowed him to carry a weapon exposed.
I can tell you right now, when/if this passes into law, I will be getting a jogging holster so I and my wife can carry while jogging and it will be exposed. Wonder how long before we are stopped for obeying the law.
For anyone interested, here is a link to the final version of the bill: http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf...1733%20ENR.DOC. It's certainly, from a reasonable viewpoint, soundly written and does not seem to open the floodgates for a new "wild west" in the state... at least not for the reasonable, open-minded folk.
I am a concealed carry license holder. The main reason I supported passage of this bill is because of the whole "accidental exposure" risk that could lead to legal difficulties. Other than that, I have no plans to regularly open carry because I don't want to draw attention to myself, except possibly for the same reason Brian Bates mentioned a couple posts ago (jogging).
Here are a couple key paragraphs from Section 1290.8 that are relevant to some of the above comments:
B. The person shall be required to have possession of his or her valid handgun license and a valid Oklahoma driver license or an Oklahoma State photo identification at all times when in possession of an authorized pistol. The person shall display the handgun license on demand of a law enforcement officer; provided, however, that in the absence of reasonable and articulable suspicion of other criminal activity, an individual carrying an unconcealed handgun shall not be disarmed or physically restrained unless the individual fails to display a valid handgun license in response to that demand. Any violation of the provisions of this subsection may be punishable as a criminal offense as authorized by Section 1272 of this title or pursuant to any other applicable provision of law.E. Nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize a law enforcement officer to inspect any weapon properly concealed or unconcealed without probable cause that a crime has been committed.
I currently hold a concealed carry license. My main reason for wanting open carry is the same as what "Of Sound Mind" said. If I am concealing and someone thinks they can make out the shape of a gun under my shirt even if they can't see it, I can get in trouble which is kind of ridiculous.
I don't think a whole lot is going to change. I doubt there will be very many walking down the street with their weapon at their side in plain view, although there will be a few in the beginning. As stated before by others the main advantage of this law is the "accidental exposure" part. I'm not sure what the law say's about business's not allowing CCW or open carry and what if any specific signs they need to have posted. I know I won't be doing any open carrying because I don't want any bad guys knowing that I'm armed and taking me out first. Just seems like common sense to me.
SB1733 has officially been sent to the governor.
Lets hope they make quick work of this and it passes.
But,the way police act in OKC they will find a reason to stop you if they suspect you are carrying a gun. That's just their mentality. They have a O tolerance on everything it seems. Small town cops.
They stopped a friend of mine while he was walking across the street going to a thunder playoff game a couple years ago. The arts fest. was in town and it must have been around 5:00 pm and they gave him a ticket for jaywalking. Serious. He had a few beers but was not even close to being drunk ( I was already in the arena waiting for him with his ticket) and they were really hassling him. I couldn't hardly believe it but I seen the ticket. There were thousands of people on the streets and they were hassling a bunch of people trying to catch someone scalping tickets from what I was told.
Bottom line,OKC Police need to grow up and start acting like they are working in a city instead of a small town. I bet if you go downtown tonight and spit on the sidewalk in front of one of these rookie cops he will give you a ticket. What are they going to do when they see people carrying guns? Oh you can bet that they will find some reason to hassle you. They are inbread to act like this.
Thats why im not going to open carry for quite some time. Look at this video of a police officer in austin, pulling up to a wrong house to respond to a domestic disturbance call, and then killing the owners dog within a matter of seconds. Just some college kid sitting outside minding his own business.
My problem with open carry is the cops around here. With Open carry the police instantly consider you a deadly threat. So you could be minding your business and they make the split second decision that you 'looked' like you were reaching for your gun and instantly end your life. How could you or your family prove them wrong?
Atleast with concealed you dont have a big cop target on your chest and your family might be able to get something if you are wrongfully killed. I'm not even saying that the above cop in the video is a bad cop or horrible person. But there are tons of hot head, half wit cops out there and some innocent open carry people will die from it.
^^^^
Though, the same could be said about the driver of a car.
Except for design, purpose and intent. In other words, not really. I said it was the point of carrying a weapon and it is:
Any one who drives a car with that point is a menace to society.Anyone carrying a loaded weapon is a deadly threat with zero to a couple of seconds from potentially being an imminent deadly threat. That's the point in carrying.
Shame you can't own up to the truth.
Interesting how the proponents do not want to own up to the nature and purpose of carrying a loaded gun.
I think all of us who carry would own up if you kept to the context of the post. I am most definitely a threat to the life of anyone trying to do physical harm to me or my family. I am not any threat whatsoever to any officer of the law or anyone else that might be in the area.
The reason I carry a loaded weapon is to protect my life and the lives of my family should I be faced with an imminent deadly threat. My intent is NOT to use it -- and I sincerely and desperately hope that I never have to. However, if someone else's life-threatening choices and actions force me to make that deadly decision, I will exercise my right to protect myself and my DUTY to protect my loved ones.
My fists will likely not be sufficient to stop an armed intruder or attacker. My kitchen knives will likely not be sufficient to stop an armed intruder or attacker. The police response -- as good as it may be -- may not be quick enough to be sufficient to stop an armed intruder or attacker. "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."
I have locks to help protect me and my family. I have an alarm to help protect me and my family. I have dogs to help protect me and my family. But none of those things can ultimately protect me from an armed intruder -- especially a desperate and/or drugged-up one -- the same way a loaded firearm can.
Do I want to use it in a deadly force situation? Absolutely not. But I also don't want to be defenseless, especially when the lives of my wife and daughters hang in the balance.
I have been a victim of an assault with a deadly weapon in my younger, pre-married, pre-fatherhood days. There was no help around, at least that could help me in time. I was helpless. My fists would likely have only made the problem worse. I was fortunate that it only resulted in a beating and a robbery and that THIS felon didn't see it necessary to take it any further. However, not all felons are so "kind" and "generous." I don't want to ever be in a situation where I have to depend on the bad guy's "good humor," "good mood," or general "good will" to survive.
If you don't want to carry a gun, fine. I respect that. But why would you deprive me of the ability to have at least a fighting chance to protect myself and my precious loved ones? That I cannot respect.
SB1733 was signed by the governor today and will take effect Nov 1, 2012.
Oh, don't devolve into abject silliness. You're so much better than that. There is a time/place for hand combat. Like using a firearm, it is not appropriate in all circumstances.
I fully concede to having held significant concerns when concealed carry by permit was being debated for enactment here, and for a spell afterwards. I've since seen, as have we all, such concerns have proven to be unwarranted. We're ot the wild west. we're not seeing shootouts between angry permit carriers. We're not hearing of firearms being forcibly taken off rubes who had no business carrying then being used to commit crimes by others. In short, it turned out to be no big deal.
Upon signing of the act, the sole difference I can see in the law now and after signing is some folks who would otherwise wear a firearm concealed will now have the option to also wear their firearms in full view.
The sun still rises in the east. Firearm crime is unlikely to rise.As far as some hick with a complex packing heat, he probably was next to you in line at a store yesterday, but you simply did not see it.
If it is a real problem for someone, s/he can treat firearm friendly establishments the same way some non-smokers treat smoker friendly establishments. Spend one's money elsewhere and advise the owner why one chooses not to trade there.
FWIW, while I like firearms, I don't carry. Never have sought a permit. Likely never will. I've simply lost my concerns regarding those who do choose to carry.
What is the law on where one can and can't carry CCW? I know Federal and State buildings, banks, schools and bars but what else is off limits? Can a store owner simply put up a sign saying no weapons and is that legal?
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