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Thread: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

  1. Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    The Zimmerman case is really an interesting point. Zimmerman seems to be the aggressor from the beginning. Based on the wording of "Stand my ground" laws Martin, if he had been armed, stood a better chance of being covered by the law. He was going to a relatives residence so he had right to be in the area and he was approached by an armed person meaning to do him harm. Too bad he wasn't old enough to legally carry a weapon. I agree with Brian, I see Zimmerman eventually going down for this one. It's just a matter of the prosecutor getting all the ducks in a row.

  2. #202

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    This throws in a whole new wrinkle and I'm not sure I like where this is heading.


    http://newsok.com/oklahoma-house-bil...rticle/3665010

  3. #203

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by ljbab728 View Post
    This throws in a whole new wrinkle and I'm not sure I like where this is heading.


    http://newsok.com/oklahoma-house-bil...rticle/3665010
    That article is written very poorly. Essentially what the new bill does is prevent successful treatment of PTSD from being a disqualifying event.

  4. #204

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    That article is written very poorly. Essentially what the new bill does is prevent successful treatment of PTSD from being a disqualifying event.
    This.

  5. #205

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    Here's the text of the bill as of its reading on the senate floor. Underlined text is what has been added:


    In addition to the requirements stated in Section 1290.9 of this title, the conditions stated in this section shall preclude a person from eligibility for a handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1 et seq. of this title. The occurrence of any one of the following conditions shall deny the person the right to have a handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act. Prohibited conditions are:

    1. Ineligible to possess a pistol due to any felony conviction or adjudication as a delinquent as provided by Section 1283 of this title, except as provided in subsection B of Section 1283 of this title;

    2. Any felony conviction pursuant to any law of another state, a felony conviction pursuant to any provision of the United States Code, or any conviction pursuant to the laws of any foreign country, provided such foreign conviction would constitute a felony offense in this state if the offense had been committed in this state, except as provided in subsection B of Section 1283 of this title;

    3. Adjudication as an incompetent person pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Mental Health Law, Section 1-101 et seq. of Title 43A of the Oklahoma Statutes or an adjudication of incompetency entered in another state pursuant to any provision of law of that state or adjudication as an incompetent person in accordance with the following:

    a. a determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition or disease:

    (1) is a danger to himself or herself or to others, or

    (2) lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his or her own affairs,

    b. a finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case, or

    c. a finding of incompetency to stand trial or a finding of not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility pursuant to Articles 50a and 72b of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, 10 U.S.C. 850a and 876b.


    Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit licensing of any person, veteran or nonveteran, who has been successfully treated for post-traumatic stress disorder or who does not meet the conditions in this paragraph;


    (The remainder of the bill is unchanged).

  6. #206

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    I'm actually not that wild about the proposed change. Maybe someone who has a mental defect shouldn't have the right to a concealed license. If I read what I just posted correctly their mental condition now must rise to the level of a declaration of mental illness by a court.

  7. #207

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    I don't think the NRA and the wingers in the Okie Leg will be satisfied until kindergarteners are armed. We'll have more guns than people in the US, if we don't already. An entire generation will be taught that using deadly force is the best way to resolve conflict. Shrug. It is what it is.

    So where's my right to bear arms? I would like to have a few shoulder-fired missiles and grenade launchers. Doesn't the Constitution guarantee me this right?

  8. #208
    MadMonk Guest

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    ^^^^^^^
    Yeah that whole Bill of Rights thing just sucks, doesn't it? Maybe we should just repeal 'em. That'd fix those freedom lovin' SOBs sumfin' good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Questor View Post
    I'm actually not that wild about the proposed change. Maybe someone who has a mental defect shouldn't have the right to a concealed license. If I read what I just posted correctly their mental condition now must rise to the level of a declaration of mental illness by a court.
    Yeah, but what other method would you use to determine whether someone is "defective"? The medical privacy laws would preclude it from being reported by those undergoing treatment, wouldn't it?

  9. #209

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerguru View Post
    I don't think the NRA and the wingers in the Okie Leg will be satisfied until kindergarteners are armed. We'll have more guns than people in the US, if we don't already. An entire generation will be taught that using deadly force is the best way to resolve conflict. Shrug. It is what it is.

    So where's my right to bear arms? I would like to have a few shoulder-fired missiles and grenade launchers. Doesn't the Constitution guarantee me this right?


    What is meant by the term, "foaming at the mouth".

  10. #210

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by MadMonk View Post
    ^^^^^^^
    Yeah that whole Bill of Rights thing just sucks, doesn't it? Maybe we should just repeal 'em. That'd fix those freedom lovin' SOBs sumfin' good.


    Yeah, but what other method would you use to determine whether someone is "defective"? The medical privacy laws would preclude it from being reported by those undergoing treatment, wouldn't it?
    Right now the form itself requires you to disclose whether or not you've been treated for mental illness, voluntary drug rehab, etc. (see pages 3 and 4):

    http://www.ok.gov/osbi/documents/sda...supplement.pdf

    I am guessing that those questions would be yanked from the form since they are no longer relevant if this bill passes. Although somewhat on the honors system, if someone else were to report a person who hadn't filled out the form correctly, or if there were some incident at a later time involving the licensee and at that time it was discovered they had a mental issue, there would at least be a path for the OSBI to revoke the license and potentially prosecute the person. If this happens I don't think that is a possibility at all anymore unless that something rises to a court order level. That just doesn't strike me as such a great idea in a post-Trayvon world... e.g. doesn't seem like they are thinking through all of the possible ramifications. You're right though going that route would be less subjective.

  11. #211

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    I have to say that is possibly the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. I just don't think our legislature is actually that stupid.

  12. #212

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocaine View Post
    I have to say that is possibly the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. I just don't think our legislature is actually that stupid.
    Coming from someone with an illicit drug as a username.

  13. #213

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    having lived in phoenix for 23 years, open carry is not a big deal. in a metro with 4+ million people i've only seen people open carry a dozen times or so. most of those sightings were bikers on the freeway with an AR-15 slung across their back. The big open carry controversy was when Obama came to the Phoenix Convention Center for a speech and people were outside in the city streets openly carrying their weapons. What did Phoenix PD do? nothing, because they weren't breaking any laws. nobody got shot. with open carry, there isn't going to be anarchy in the streets with people having gun fights. i like open carry because it gives an option if you do carry and you won't get in trouble if you accidentally show your gun while carrying concealed.

  14. #214

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocaine View Post
    I have to say that is possibly the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. I just don't think our legislature is actually that stupid.
    Yes. They're that stupid.

  15. #215

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerguru View Post
    Yes. They're that stupid.
    In fact, I am frequently astounded at just how repeatedly stupid these people, who presumably have some higher education, can be. I'm amazed Southpark hasn't picked up some of our legislators pet projects.

  16. #216

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    There is no conflict issue here between amendments. A person's right to speak is just as valid with or without the Second Amendment. However, it behooves a person to use judgement where one chooses to speak. I don't recommend screaming at a policeman during a traffic stop. Also, inciting violence or false fire alerts also aren't really good ideas. You may have the right but you also have the consequences for your actions. Open carry is a "right" which is not to be construed as a "permission". Reasonable people know the difference between the two. No permit or license is required for a "right". Whether you like it or not. The mere act of "living" exposes every citizen to some degree of danger from a multitude of sources. Not just guns. To relinquish a right will not reduce that danger. Only self protection can minimize the danger but not eliminate it. You can be sure of one thing if you or your family is attacked and that is "the police will arrive in just enough time to fill out the paperwork and figure out what happened". You know where you or your family will be don't you? Ask yourself a question. If a poll were conducted on current felons in jail involving "guns", how many felons do you believe would be in possession of an authorized concealed carry permit or license. I assure you, the need for a permit or license never crossed the felons mind and I doubt you would find one or two (if any). Think of open carry as the constitution saying it is ok for you to protect yourself and your family from harm without being prosecuted by the law. It takes on a totally different perspective doesn't it? Don't be hasty to give away rights that your ancestors died for!

  17. #217

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by betts View Post
    ... I'm amazed Southpark hasn't picked up some of our legislators pet projects.
    The bulk of the local stupidity lacks a humor component.

  18. #218

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinpate View Post
    The bulk of the local stupidity lacks a humor component.
    Southpark needs to go to http://bubbaworld.com

  19. #219

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob O'Day View Post
    There is no conflict issue here between amendments. A person's right to speak is just as valid with or without the Second Amendment. However, it behooves a person to use judgement where one chooses to speak. I don't recommend screaming at a policeman during a traffic stop. Also, inciting violence or false fire alerts also aren't really good ideas. You may have the right but you also have the consequences for your actions. Open carry is a "right" which is not to be construed as a "permission". Reasonable people know the difference between the two. No permit or license is required for a "right". Whether you like it or not. The mere act of "living" exposes every citizen to some degree of danger from a multitude of sources. Not just guns. To relinquish a right will not reduce that danger. Only self protection can minimize the danger but not eliminate it. You can be sure of one thing if you or your family is attacked and that is "the police will arrive in just enough time to fill out the paperwork and figure out what happened". You know where you or your family will be don't you? Ask yourself a question. If a poll were conducted on current felons in jail involving "guns", how many felons do you believe would be in possession of an authorized concealed carry permit or license. I assure you, the need for a permit or license never crossed the felons mind and I doubt you would find one or two (if any). Think of open carry as the constitution saying it is ok for you to protect yourself and your family from harm without being prosecuted by the law. It takes on a totally different perspective doesn't it? Don't be hasty to give away rights that your ancestors died for!
    I agree. Open carry will not mean everyone gets engage everyone they perceive will be a threat. It will mean you will have to explain why you used deadly force. 1. The other person had a weapon with intent to use it. 2. The person had a clear physical advantage over you and they had you cornered with no other means to protect yourself. 3. They are assaulting you and won't stop. If you kill because you were just scared. You will go to prison.

    By the way you need to know how to use a gun otherwise it will be useless in a life or death situation. I know most people have seen Pulp Fiction where John Travolta and Samuel Jackson are hitmen there to settle a score. The roommate runs out and empties a revolver in their direction and they are unharmed. They return fire and kill the guy. That happens more then people believe. You have to know how to hit the target and when you shoot someone they don't die instantly unless you hit them in the right place.

    The majority of people value life and they won't use a gun without knowing how to properly use it. They know if they don't what they are aiming at they could kill someone else. Personally. I would rather live in an environment were peace loving people were armed instead of one were peace loving people were restricted to calling the police. Who unfortunately show up five to ten minutes after the bad guy leaves.

    Banning guns and personal ability to carry will be about as effective as the drug laws in this country. It does not matter who you are or where you are. Somebody you know has a drug connection to get whatever you want. It's just a matter of building trust. More people use than not most are able to cover their drug use by restricting use to weekends or around trusted friends.

  20. Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by oneforone View Post
    It will mean you will have to explain why you used deadly force. 1. The other person had a weapon with intent to use it. 2. The person had a clear physical advantage over you and they had you cornered with no other means to protect yourself. 3. They are assaulting you and won't stop. If you kill because you were just scared. You will go to prison.
    I think 'open carry' and 'stand your ground' opinions are becoming a bit too merged in some people's minds. The above quote may be your impression of stand your ground, but it certainly is not how the law is applied in other states - and even when it is applied that way - juries often interpret it with far less stringency.


    In Texas a man was allowed to leave his home and confront men who were unarmed and robbing his neighbor's unoccupied home. He shot the robbers in the back as they fled. No charges filed.

    In Florida a man chased down a guy who stole his car stereo. The robber was unarmed and allegedly swung the bag of car stereos at the robbery victim. The victim then took his knife and stabbed the robber to death. No charges filed and no witnesses to back up the 'he swung a bag of stereos at me.'

    A drunk Pennsylvania man knocked on the wrong door and window late one night and the homeowner shot and killed him through the window. The drunk man thought he was at his girlfriend's house. No charges filed (though technically still under investigation).

    In Wisconsin a 20-year old young man hid on a neighbors porch after a party he was at was busted by police. While the police were still at the party scene, the neighbor shot and killed the 20-year old when he saw him on his porch. Charges will not be filed.

    The list goes on and on.

    I'm not against open carry or stand your ground. But people need to realize the real consequences of such legislation.

  21. #221
    MadMonk Guest

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by oneforone View Post
    Banning guns and personal ability to carry will be about as effective as the drug laws in this country. It does not matter who you are or where you are. Somebody you know has a drug connection to get whatever you want. It's just a matter of building trust. More people use than not most are able to cover their drug use by restricting use to weekends or around trusted friends.
    I don't know if I would say most. Maybe most in a certain demographic age group or category. But, I agree with you that banning guns is not an effective way to eliminate crime. As the saying goes, "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."

  22. #222

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    SB1733 an open carry bill is on it's way to the governor for her to sign.

  23. #223

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    Can you not support the 2nd amendment while being reasonable about it? Why is open carry needed? NRA and the like have gone overboard.

  24. #224

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by sidburgess View Post
    Apologize if this is has already been posted elsewhere.
    That officer conducted himself very professionally and seems to have a good sense of humor. So often we see just the negative, it's kind of nice to see this sort of reaction from time to time.

  25. #225

    Default Re: Open Carry Law Set to Pass

    Good cop. Gives me an idea about expressing my first amendment rights. I think I'll start a photo website...The People Who Open Carry.

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