Open Carry Law Set to Pass

[BBatesokc]

I personally like the way this citizen handled it when police tried to impose their will over enforcing the law.

This scenario is bound to happen over and over again in Oklahoma and I think this guy handled it perfectly.

Its a long video (audio actually). I'll summarize; someone calls 911 to complain about a guy who is apparently legally openly carrying. Police arrive and immediately assume their will (to get the guys ID) trumps the law, which says he does not have to provide ID. After 10 minutes of the police making it clear they obviously don't know the law and the citizen remaining very calm - the citizen literally just finally walks away leaving the police feeling as foolish as they were acting.

[MadMonk]

You may be correct about that but it works both ways. If I enter any business and observe anyone openly carrying I will leave immediately without asking questions and never return.

Why? Because you disagree with the law and want to make a statement or is it a case of being afraid of a spontaneous gunfight breaking out?

[Roadhawg]

I personally like the way this citizen handled it when police tried to impose their will over enforcing the law.

This scenario is bound to happen over and over again in Oklahoma and I think this guy handled it perfectly.

He did handle that pretty good.

[Double Edge]

I personally like the way this citizen handled it when police tried to impose their will over enforcing the law.

This scenario is bound to happen over and over again in Oklahoma and I think this guy handled it perfectly.

Its a long video (audio actually). I'll summarize; someone calls 911 to complain about a guy who is apparently legally openly carrying. Police arrive and immediately assume their will (to get the guys ID) trumps the law, which says he does not have to provide ID. After 10 minutes of the police making it clear they obviously don't know the law and the citizen remaining very calm - the citizen literally just finally walks away leaving the police feeling as foolish as they were acting.

It was pointed out upthread the OK law requires you to show your permit to a LEO.

[Of Sound Mind]

I personally like the way this citizen handled it when police tried to impose their will over enforcing the law.

This scenario is bound to happen over and over again in Oklahoma and I think this guy handled it perfectly.

Its a long video (audio actually). I'll summarize; someone calls 911 to complain about a guy who is apparently legally openly carrying. Police arrive and immediately assume their will (to get the guys ID) trumps the law, which says he does not have to provide ID. After 10 minutes of the police making it clear they obviously don't know the law and the citizen remaining very calm - the citizen literally just finally walks away leaving the police feeling as foolish as they were acting.

There is a distinct difference between the above scenario and what may happen in Oklahoma in that the SDA, as newly revised, requires licensed gun holders to present photo identification on demand:

Section 1290.8.

POSSESSION OF LICENSE REQUIRED -
NOTIFICATION TO POLICE OF GUN

A. Except as otherwise prohibited by law, an eligible person shall have authority to carry a concealed or unconcealed handgun in this state when the person has been issued a handgun license from the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, provided the person is in compliance with the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, and the license has not expired or been subsequently suspended or revoked. A person in possession of a valid handgun license and in compliance with the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act shall be authorized to carry such concealed or unconcealed handgun while bow hunting or fishing.

B. The person shall be required to have possession of his or her valid handgun license and a valid Oklahoma driver license or an Oklahoma State photo identification at all times when in possession of an authorized pistol. The person shall display the handgun license on demand of a law enforcement officer; provided, however, that in the absence of reasonable and articulable suspicion of other criminal activity, an individual carrying an unconcealed handgun shall not be disarmed or physically restrained unless the individual fails to display a valid handgun license in response to that demand. Any violation of the provisions of this subsection may be punishable as a criminal offense as authorized by Section 1272 of this title or pursuant to any other applicable provision of law. In addition to any criminal prosecution which may result from not carrying the handgun license and the required identification with the authorized pistol as required by the provisions of this subsection, the person may be subject to an administrative fine for violation of the provisions of this subsection. The administrative fine shall be Fifty Dollars ($50.00) and shall be assessed by the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation after a hearing and determination that the licensee is in violation of the provisions of this subsection. Any second or subsequent violation of the provisions of this subsection shall be grounds for the Bureau to suspend the handgun license for a period of six (6) months, in addition to any other penalty imposed.

[hrdware]

It was pointed out upthread the OK law requires you to show your permit to a LEO.

Required to show it on demand. In the state where this particular video took place, no such law exists. I think the point is that some LEO may try and impose their anti-OC will by harassing people. People should know the law inside and out so this same type of response to those LEO happens here.

[kevinpate]

You may be correct about that but it works both ways. If I enter any business and observe anyone openly carrying I will leave immediately without asking questions and never return.

Free to make that choice, but for me, I would expect that would self bounce me from some of my favorite places. Someone wearing a sidearm isn't reason enough, for me, to greatly alter my life to that degree. Now, if some extra fluffy person like me is in there wearing spandex two sizes too small, yeah, then it would be time to find a new vendor. Some things just be scarier than others.

[Double Edge]

Required to show it on demand. In the state where this particular video took place, no such law exists.

I cited upthread a link that shows which states have stop and identify laws, which is what they were trying to do and is legal in some states. We do not have that law in Oklahoma, with the exception of what has been added in this open carry law. Evidently Maine does not either.

(the voter id law notwithstanding, which is slightly different from stop and identify but not so different from the open carry law in that both require you to provide identification to do something.)

I think the point is that some LEO may try and impose their anti-OC will by harassing people. People should know the law inside and out so this same type of response to those LEO happens here.

It's not harassment in Oklahoma for a LEO to demand that you provide the information spelled out. It's the law.

[BBatesokc]

I'm very aware of the law - as was the citizen in the video above. The point was that the citizen knew the law, obeyed the law and did not allow police pressure to trump the law. The video also shows that police, who should know the law, often don't or don't care.

[Double Edge]

I'm very aware of the law - as was the citizen in the video above. The point was that the citizen knew the law, obeyed the law and did not allow police pressure to trump the law. The video also shows that police, who should know the law, often don't or don't care.

Some police. Agreed. The same can be said for some gun owners.

[Roadhawg]

Personally if a police officer asked to see my permit I wouldn't have any objection to showing it.

[kevinpate]

Personally if a police officer asked to see my permit I wouldn't have any objection to showing it.

That's good cause here on our patch of the prairie one doesn't have a choice to simply decline the request. I don't have a real problem with that myself, though I recognize some feel even that requirement goes way too far for their own liking. I don't carry,but if I were to ever start, I wouldn't feel violated to fish out my permit.

[Roadhawg]

That's good cause here on our patch of the prairie one doesn't have a choice to simply decline the request. I don't have a real problem with that myself, though I recognize some feel even that requirement goes way too far for their own liking. I don't carry,but if I were to ever start, I wouldn't feel violated to fish out my permit.

Speaking of fish if I was out fishing and the Game Warden asked to see my fishing license I would have to show him so no big deal, unless I didn't have one.

[hrdware]

It's not harassment in Oklahoma for a LEO to demand that you provide the information spelled out. It's the law.

I agree it is not. It becomes harassment when the same officer continues to ask you for your permit over a short period of time.

For example, if I go to the mall and Officer Fife asks to see my permit when I walk in the door...fine. But if he follows me around the mall asking for my permit every time I walk out of a different store, that becomes harassment.

[BBatesokc]

I agree it is not. It becomes harassment when the same officer continues to ask you for your permit over a short period of time.

For example, if I go to the mall and Officer Fife asks to see my permit when I walk in the door...fine. But if he follows me around the mall asking for my permit every time I walk out of a different store, that becomes harassment.

I personally don't see that scenario happening, but I wish it was spelled out what happens after I produce my license. I'm sure the intent and expectation is that they simply hand it back to you and you go on. Instead, what I see realistically happening is they take the license, try and follow t up with questions that are not covered under the law.... "Why do you have a gun on you?" "What are you up to?" etc. Then going back to their patrol car, running you for wants and warrants or otherwise just making sure you get to stand there while people go by for 20-40 minutes simply to harass you.

I could also see an officer sending a message to other officers for each one to stop you and thus cause you more aggravation while technically following thew law.

[Larry OKC]

Well now in Oklahoma you have to be licensed to practice your right to vote. Which, by the way, was brought to us by the gun loving republican right.

Not sure what you mean by this. It can mean "permission" in general, it generally requires testing and such. While valid ID is required, as far as I know, there isn't a test administered (such as a civics one) in order to get your voter registration card or to actually vote is there??? The only requirement really is that you are legally eligible (of age, legal resident etc) and that you are who you say you are. Even before the voter ID law passed, you could be denied permission (license) to vote if your name didn't appear in their voter registration book etc.

[ljbab728]

Why? Because you disagree with the law and want to make a statement or is it a case of being afraid of a spontaneous gunfight breaking out?

I do disagree with the law and if I see someone with a gun I'm not going to wait to ask if they are a legally carrying person or a crook preparing for a robbery. I will just leave. I will later make my concern known to the management whether it matters to them or not.

[Snowman]

I do disagree with the law and if I see someone with a gun I'm not going to wait to ask if they are a legally carrying person or a crook preparing for a robbery. I will just leave. I will later make my concern known to the management whether it matters to them or not.

If someone is preparing a robbery they are probably not going to have it in a holster openly visible. It will likely be concealed.

[ljbab728]

If someone is preparing a robbery they are probably not going to have it in a holster openly visible. It will likely be concealed.

Why? It seems to me that would be the perfect way to do it. The store employees would assume they were legal and not worry about it.

[kevinpate]

Why? It seems to me that would be the perfect way to do it. The store employees would assume they were legal and not worry about it.

Perhaps. However, it's also likely that your thought process above is significantly more thought put into the process than what exists in the vast majority of pre-robbery preparations.

[ljbab728]

Perhaps. However, it's also likely that your thought process above is significantly more thought put into the process than what exists in the vast majority of pre-robbery preparations.

It's also possible that the crooks are always looking for one more way to beat the system. Many posters here think I should just assume that anyone I see openly carrying a gun is legal so why shouldn't a clerk assume the same thing and not be concerned?

[kevinpate]

with respect, your level of concern over the upcoming open carry possibilities, however appropriate in your mind, is from my perspective bordering on paranoia. I hope in time you'll come to see you do not need to drastically alter your life and instantly leave places where someone is visibly armed. There will undoubtedly be places where firearms remain unwelcome, but there will be many where you will see firearms when today and last year and multiple years before those firearms were present but concealed.

As for bad guy thought processes, based on a few decades of observations most truly are not heavy in the planning or logic departments. That's in large part why most jurisdictions don't have surplus in reserved housing for them.

[ljbab728]

With respect, my level of concern won't change. I grew up with a father who was an avid hunter and always had guns in the house. I always hated them and that won't change. As I mentioned previously, when I was in banking in the 70's and 80's I had a gun under my desk within reach and always hated it. It's hardly paranoia just my preference and I won't be altering my life, just voicing my concerns when I feel the need.

[RadicalModerate]

I have no personal axe to grind on this issue (but) . . .
At least with Open Carry, embarassing scenes like this will become a thing of the past . . .

[BBatesokc]

Hell yeah!


Surveillance video: Internet café patron shoots suspected robbers

http://freedom43tv.com/2012/07/17/su...ected-robbers/