Steelyard

[riflesforwatie]

I live at Metropolitan currently and my impression is that it is very nearly full; mainly the very large (and expensive) units are still empty. I know that, as of this summer, there were waiting lists at Maywood I, Level, and Mosaic, and immediate availability at DD apartments (though that was fairly limited). With Metro and Maywood II online I think there is more slack in the market now, but I don't know exactly how much. (Visually, Maywood II doesn't look super full, and I don't know about Lift or the Edge). My point is that there is going to be a natural ebb in occupancy rates when 1 (or 2 or 3 or even 4!) fairly large apartment complexes open all at once, but the rental market in downtown and midtown still seems very healthy. Maybe this is boosterism but I'm not really concerned about Steelyard being successful.

[Pete]

I noticed for the likely the first time, Midtown Renaissance has several of their properties listed with units available. As most know, for the longest time they had so much interest they didn't even bother to return calls.

Still, from what is listed, it just looks like a handful of units that will likely go quickly.

I'm curious about LIFT. They don't seem very full and they still have the entire west section to bring on-line. But to be fair, their courtyard and pool are still not finished so by this summer I'm sure they will be then hopefully they can get leased up.

[hoya]

In the next few years, we're also going to have the streetcar go in, which will really improve access for people downtown. There appears to be a strong positive response to the streetcar, with several new developments announced along the route. This should increase demand for housing along that area as well.

[sooner88]

I noticed for the likely the first time, Midtown Renaissance has several of their properties listed with units available. As most know, for the longest time they had so much interest they didn't even bother to return calls.

Still, from what is listed, it just looks like a handful of units that will likely go quickly.

I'm curious about LIFT. They don't seem very full and they still have the entire west section to bring on-line. But to be fair, their courtyard and pool are still not finished so by this summer I'm sure they will be then hopefully they can get leased up.

My coworker's daughter is about to move into the LIFT, and they are offering month-by-month which would make it seem like they have a decent amount still available.

Midtown Renaissance will do month-by-month, but the rate is increased and the have the right to not let that continue once they find someone to sign for a longer term.

[Pete]

Considering that the number of downtown rental units dramatically increased in a very short period of time, the downtown rental market still seems very strong.

It seems to have softened a bit but not as much as many doom and gloomers had predicted.

After Steelyard, there really aren't any big complexes on the horizon, part from the 4th & EKG project which in best case scenario won't be open for several more years.

I bet you'll see things start to tighten up again in about a year then more complexes announced. For now, any potential bigger developments seem to be taking a wait-and-see attitude.

[shawnw]

In a recent talk by Steve he said that LIFT is not filling as they had hoped to the extent that they are not moving forward with a planned next phase. I also looked strongly at moving to LIFT, took two different days of tours of nearly every floor plan. There were plenty of empty apartments of each floor plan to show me.

[Pete]

In a recent talk by Steve he said that LIFT is not filling as they had hoped to the extent that they are not moving forward with a planned next phase. I also looked strongly at moving to LIFT, took two different days of tours of nearly every floor plan. There were plenty of empty apartments of each floor plan to show me.

That is absolutely not why they decided not to move forward with L2. In fact they made the decision before LIFT was even open.

There was a big issue with getting variances to build L2 and then, as well all know, LIFT experienced massive construction delays.

Milhaus relocated their representative that was brought to OKC some time ago and has pretty much decided not to pursue other OKC projects, and all that happened long before much of LIFT was even open.

[shawnw]

Good to know. There was still a surprisingly high number vacant units considering the excellent quality and amenities.

[Pete]

Good to know. There was still a surprisingly high number vacant units considering the excellent quality and amenities.

They had lots of people signed up but then kept missing deadlines so those tenants moved on.

Then, most the units opened around summertime and the pool as nowhere close to open. And I was just by there and there is still a bunch of construction on the west side.

All that should be wrapping up soon along with the pool and I bet they lease up pretty well this spring and summer.

[Pete]

And BTW, be very wary of the constant drumbeat from the Oklahoman on the supposed overbuilt nature of downtown housing.

That is being fed to them through cozy relationships with a few developers who want to promote this idea to protect their existing investments. And at the same time, most of them have other projects they are planning.

It's smart on their part but that story keeps being put out there as fact without any numbers or empirical information.

Of course when you dump 2,000 units on the market within a year it has an impact but the fact that there are still plenty of plans in the pipeline by people with real skin in the game is much more telling IMO.


And as for LIFT, it's easy to blame 'the market' but if anyone has been paying attention you know there were lots of self-inflicted problems there and at the same time Metropolitan seems to be doing very well.

[traxx]

We need to think about people in the metro relocating downtown too. It seems too often we're worried only about population growth sustaining downtown living. But you also need to account for people that already live in the area to change their lifestyle from suburban to downtown, urban living. No one likes sprawl and a good way to slow sprawl is to have people wanting to live downtown. That's gonna work better than putting moratoriums on building out past certain limits etc. We're starting to see more amenities downtown but with people living downtown we're going to need more downtown retail, groceries etc.

[shadfar]

And as for LIFT, it's easy to blame 'the market' but if anyone has been paying attention you know there were lots of self-inflicted problems there and at the same time Metropolitan seems to be doing very well.

Agreed! When i was looking to move downtown/midtown area i couldn't get anyone at LIFT to return a call/e-mail.

[shawnw]

One of the cool things about lift NOW, is that they do tours 7-days a week, unlike any other apartment complex downtown that I called.

[DoctorTaco]

After Steelyard, there really aren't any big complexes on the horizon, part from the 4th & EKG project which in best case scenario won't be open for several more years.

Pete I agree with almost all your points you've made today, but this quote seems to be ignoring the pretty vast # of apartments in the pipeline around 21C.

[Pete]

Pete I agree with almost all your points you've made today, but this quote seems to be ignoring the pretty vast # of apartments in the pipeline around 21C.

Right. And the 200 units at First National Center.

But, the Village West project won't be on-line for about 2 years and while large, is only 320 units would only represent about a 3% increase in downtown living units.

By that time, you can almost bet vacancy rates should be really firm; maybe even tight.

[dcsooner]

^

OKC"s unemployment rate is still under the national average and the population growth has been very steady as well.

If things that can be measured are going to support an argument, might want to look them up first.

Please READ my statement
although OKC has experienced gains in each of these areas, we have seen layoffs in the O&G industry I am still skeptical that Sandrige Energy will survive), population growth has slowed and although salaries have risen, OKC still lags behind other cities in terms of per capita income.

[sooner88]

Please READ my statement
although OKC has experienced gains in each of these areas, we have seen layoffs in the O&G industry I am still skeptical that Sandrige Energy will survive), population growth has slowed and although salaries have risen, OKC still lags behind other cities in terms of per capita income.

You can't compare per capita income with out also looking at the average cost of living, which Oklahoma consistently remains near the top of the list.

[ljbab728]

Please READ my statement
although OKC has experienced gains in each of these areas, we have seen layoffs in the O&G industry I am still skeptical that Sandrige Energy will survive), population growth has slowed and although salaries have risen, OKC still lags behind other cities in terms of per capita income.

I read your statement just as I'm sure that Pete did. I agree with him.

And here is another reason why your doom and gloom statements aren't accurate by someone who is in a position to know.

http://m.newsok.com/article/5539315

"Yes, we've had a decline in the oil and gas business," he said. "Companies like RKI Exploration (& Production), bought by WPX (Energy). They had 70,000 square feet in Oklahoma Tower. It's available for sublease. They moved to Tulsa. Some of that space has already been backfilled.
"You had Williams Communications, Central Park, over 100,000 square feet of space came on the market. Range Resources, 80,000 square feet, Enterprise Plaza. The space is on the market — a third of it has already been pre-leased. So when you dump 500,000 square feet on the market, to me, it's nothing to get concerned about."

[gopokes88]

Please READ my statement
although OKC has experienced gains in each of these areas, we have seen layoffs in the O&G industry I am still skeptical that Sandrige Energy will survive), population growth has slowed and although salaries have risen, OKC still lags behind other cities in terms of per capita income.

be as skeptical as you want but their balance sheet looks fine

[TU 'cane]

Just speaking in general here, OKC will never grow fast enough, never be diverse enough, never be good enough, etc. to some people. It's one thing to bring healthy skepticism, and another to be constantly negative and paint something as just never good enough more times than one. To each their own.

Nothing you can say or do, but time will prove that OKC's path was the right one all along.

[dcsooner]

I read your statement just as I'm sure that Pete did. I agree with him.

And here is another reason why your doom and gloom statements aren't accurate by someone who is in a position to know.

http://m.newsok.com/article/5539315

This was a very well couched analysis. taking 1m Sq feet out of the equation is skewing the real data as well as changes in Linclon plaza. He conveniently went from25 % vacacancy to 14-15 % that in business accounting is called "cooking the books". We know OG & E failed to build the much ballyhooed HQ, We know the new tower is not fully leased, but these are beside the original point. The question was for lease apartments and I still contend that OKC is quikcly reaching a point of saturation given the slowed poplulation growth, lack of diversification in industry to attact new residents needing apartments (esp younger people). The oft cited low cost of living as a justification for low incomes is IMO flawed. With all involved citing increased rents and cost to build per sq foot I posit that without income commensurate with rental rate growth or better population growth especially in the rental market demographic, vacancies will increase. the failure of Tinker to find 1000 engineers to fill needed positons suggests to me the focus of conversation in OKC should be shifted to Education and creation/retention of Jobs . My comment about Sandridge is more about the distinct lack of diversity in OKC economy that hinges an inordinate amount on O&G. The other large area is Government ( strange since OK is so Red). The State economy is Tanking with budget cuts on every hand and the moral landscape of your elected officials is hideous ( one seems to resign, go the jail every other day)

People on this board can call me negative all they want, I really do not care. I have an opinion often not like others but never the less my opinion. I can only hope the owners of this board respect the 1st amendment right to free speech.

[Pete]

He took 1 million square feet out at First National because it is no longer office space nor will it be again.

And the new tower is 100% leased apart from restaurant space in the lobby and I've heard they've got a deal for that, too.

I could go on but you are not dealing in facts so it's pointless.

[hoya]

The ignore button is there for a reason, everybody.

[dcsooner]

The ignore button is there for a reason, everybody.

Big LOL

[Rover]

Some people don't lie or are ignorant of truths, they just offer alternative facts. And we all know opinion = fact.