Population Growth for OKC

[chuck5815]

So Oklahomans by nature must be some of the most crooked in the world? Incarceration must not work as we keep imprisoning more and more. We must be naturally awful lawless people. No wonder we need really lax gun laws. I am sure low educational achievements means we are stupid as well as crooked. And poor, because we are lazy.

Crooked? Sure, we have plenty of crooked oil men running this state. But being a crooked oil man is not necessarily a crime. That's why most of them are not in prison.

Stealing someone's $1,000 iPhone X, however, is a crime. And there's nothing crooked about that. They should be roundly punished. Now, whether felony larceny should merit multiple years in state prison is a completely different question. And I would suggest the answer is "no." There are probably better ways to re-mediate the offender, including community service and the like. But your reasoning almost suggests that the law is more culpable than the lawbreaker, and that, quite frankly, doesn't make any sense. We should have some consequences for all of these "crooked" people, as you call them.

[Rover]

Correct, incarceration doesn't work, in fact, it dramatically increases the chances that somebody will need to be incarcerated again, and also dramatically increases the chances that the children of the incarcerated will become incarcezrated. You go in with some cursory knowledge of crime, and you come out with a Masters degree in crime and new criminal connections.

Being a relatively poor state, the financial resources poured in to our prisons is really shooting us in the foot now, and shooting us in the foot in the future.

Btw, I knew and was being sarcastic.

As long as this state favors exaggerated punishment of low level crimes over education, research and development, skills training, capital availability, etc., we will keep seeing climbing penal institution costs. But, you can’t tell that to rigid right so popular in OK

[Rover]

Crooked? Sure, we have plenty of crooked oil men running this state. But being a crooked oil man is not necessarily a crime. That's why most of them are not in prison.

Stealing someone's $1,000 iPhone X, however, is a crime. And there's nothing crooked about that. They should be roundly punished. Now, whether felony larceny should merit multiple years in state prison is a completely different question. And I would suggest the answer is "no." There are probably better ways to re-mediate the offender, including community service and the like. But your reasoning almost suggests that the law is more culpable than the lawbreaker, and that, quite frankly, doesn't make any sense. We should have some consequences for all of these "crooked" people, as you call them.

Why do you single out oilmen? I know of doctors and dentists who commit fraud by filing false charges to ins companies and the govt. Lots of people cheat on their income taxes....lots of merchants saving “knock down money” cash on the side. There are electricians and plumbers who exaggerate time and charges. There are mechanics who do unnecessary work. There are politicians (cough, cough. Pruitt et al) who have no problem essentially stealing public money and/or wasting it on personal crusades any idiot knows can’t be won. There are roofers who cheat insurance companies. Etc., etc. But heaven forbid you smoke marijuana or rob a 7-11 for $200.....off you go.

Just have fair prosecution across the board and appropriate punishment. Quit filling our jails with petty crooks while letting bigger injustices go unpunished.

[chuck5815]

Why do you single out oilmen? I know of doctors and dentists who commit fraud by filing false charges to ins companies and the govt. Lots of people cheat on their income taxes....lots of merchants saving “knock down money” cash on the side. There are electricians and plumbers who exaggerate time and charges. There are mechanics who do unnecessary work. There are politicians (cough, cough. Pruitt et al) who have no problem essentially stealing public money and/or wasting it on personal crusades any idiot knows can’t be won. There are roofers who cheat insurance companies. Etc., etc. But heaven forbid you smoke marijuana or rob a 7-11 for $200.....off you go.

Just have fair prosecution across the board and appropriate punishment. Quit filling our jails with petty crooks while letting bigger injustices go unpunished.

That’s fair. It would probably make sense for the state to increase felony larceny to $2500 (like Texas) and loosen the punishments for simple possession.

And quite frankly, I’m all aboard the SQ788 train. It’s hilarious that the Chamber of Commerce, OIPA, other business organizations, and the folks who run this State are completely against it. I’ve heard one oil industry exec describe it as, “The most Liberal Medical Marijuana Law this country has ever seen.” And while I don’t pretend to understand every aspect of the law and its potential consequences, that statement strikes me as hyperbole of the highest degree.

[TheTravellers]

That’s fair. It would probably make sense for the state to increase felony larceny to $2500 (like Texas) and loosen the punishments for simple possession.

And quite frankly, I’m all aboard the SQ788 train. It’s hilarious that the Chamber of Commerce, OIPA, other business organizations, and the folks who run this State are completely against it. I’ve heard one oil industry exec describe it as, “The most Liberal Medical Marijuana Law this country has ever seen.” And while I don’t pretend to understand every aspect of the law and its potential consequences, that statement strikes me as hyperbole of the highest degree.

I believe we are the only state whose MMJ law does *not* specify/list conditions for which MMJ can be used for, so it could be construed as that. But it also makes sense in that they're relying on doctors to appropriately diagnose whether someone's condition would be helped by MMJ. And yes, there will be ripe opportunities for abuse, but aren't there always doctors willing to be prescription factories, no matter what? I'm for 788, BTW, and am sick of (as are my mom, uncle, brother and his wife) this Reefer Madness crap they're trying to pull, so I'm guessing there will be at least 6 yes votes for it from us...

Having said that, prison/criminal justice reform does need to happen here, I think a huge percentage of incarcerated are there for low-level drug offenses (that might not even get a traffic-type ticket in other states), and that's just wrong, backwards, outdated, and needs to be fixed (and I think some of it is being fixed by some bills that made it through last session, and I've got a tab in Opera open with a summary of all that, but haven't read it all yet to see what's good about all that).

[ChrisHayes]

I'm all for not only legalizing marijuanna, but releasing everyone who's incarcerated on non-violent marijuanna related offenses? In jail for growing, using, posessing, or selling marijuanna? You're free!

[Bunty]

Stuff like this isn't good. This state is now the prison capital of the world.

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/global/2018.html

Oklahoma needs to get off the top of lists like this.

Really, how high is Oklahoma's true rate of incarceration? Are they also counting the number of prisoners from out of state contracted by private prisons? I don't know. Being no. 1 may also reflect how good the private prison industry has been in Oklahoma.

[okatty]

This is probably not the best place for this, The NY Times has a map today which focuses on population in various metro areas and across the US. Depending on where you live you get a fold out of a specific metro area - we got Dallas. This is the US map which I thought was really interesting. I’m sure this is (or will be) on their website, but have not looked.

[BG918]

2018 population figures are out

The state population crept up by about 10,000 residents in the 12-month period ending July 1, the increase largely due to more births and migrants moving to the state from outside the U.S., according to the latest U.S. Census Bureau population estimates.

Figures recently released by the Census Bureau show Oklahoma with an estimated 3,932,640 residents as of July 1, 2018, an increase of 10,728 residents over the past 12 months.

The 0.3 percent increase in population for the year ranked the state 33rd nationally in growth rate, behind Vermont at 32nd and ahead of Maine at 34th.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagel...d8653ffed.html

[dcsooner]

Wow, pretty pathetic. Continues about a 3-4 year run of stigmant growth. Love to hear others thoughts on why, maybe jobs, wages, health, education, drug use, politics.

[BG918]

Wow, pretty pathetic. Continues about a 3-4 year run of stigmant growth. Love to hear others thoughts on why, maybe jobs, wages, health, education, drug use, politics.

Stagnant growth still ranked Oklahoma 33rd in the country. Many states had population losses. In 10 years (maybe sooner) the U.S. as a whole could start to lose population if immigration continues to be restricted and our birth rate continues to fall. This will have dire consequences for our future economic prospects.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/423...product-demand

[Jake]

Definitely not great growth, but I'm surprised that only a 0.3 increase was still 33rd.

[BG918]

Definitely not great growth, but I'm surprised that only a 0.3 increase was still 33rd.

Marginal growth in the two metros is nearly offset by losses in the rural parts of the state. OKC/Tulsa metros and places like Okemah, Idabel, Erick, etc are different worlds.

[ChrisHayes]

There are two main problems. One, is we're competing with Texas, and the other is we're competing with fad states such as Oregon and Colorado. Oklahoma has a lot to offer, but without marketing, many people won't know about it.

[Bunty]

There are two main problems. One, is we're competing with Texas, and the other is we're competing with fad states such as Oregon and Colorado. Oklahoma has a lot to offer, but without marketing, many people won't know about it.

The good thing about low population growth is that it comes with low cost of living. In fast growing Austin the cost of living index is 130. In Portland, OR it's a whopping 148 and Denver 144. Contrast that to Oklahoma City where it's 91.5. In stagnant Lawton it's only 78. National average is 100. The word is getting out what Oklahoma has to offer, such as low COL, and this California family acted upon it earlier this year.

[ChrisHayes]

The good thing about low population growth is that it comes with low cost of living. In fast growing Austin the cost of living index is 130. In Portland, OR it's a whopping 148 and Denver 144. Contrast that to Oklahoma City where it's 91.5. In stagnant Lawton it's only 78. National average is 100. The word is getting out what Oklahoma has to offer, such as low COL, and this California family acted upon it earlier this year.

I think I remember seeing this video a while back. There are a number of states including Illinois and New York where people are moving out of. California would probably be one if it weren't for illegal immigration from Mexico. I saw where Florida has gained 4 million residents since 2010. It amazes me that the cost of living hasn't exploded to California levels there. So yeah, I do like the slow growth has kept our cost of living in check. I would like it to accelerate a bit though.

[Laramie]

You'll see some job growth in OKC in the next five years that will attract out-of-state professionals and retain young professionals and graduates.

OKC is in a position to capitalize on the growth you saw in 2010-15. Most of Oklahoma's growth was probably the result of the OKC core.

[Bunty]

A look at the cost of living per state, third quarter. Only Mississippi is lower than Oklahoma.

[Bunty]

There are a number of states including Illinois and New York where people are moving out of. California would probably be one if it weren't for illegal immigration from Mexico. I saw where Florida has gained 4 million residents since 2010. It amazes me that the cost of living hasn't exploded to California levels there. So yeah, I do like the slow growth has kept our cost of living in check. I would like it to accelerate a bit though.

I think eliminating all income tax would work better in attracting more people to the state than having a very low cost of living. It would make it easier to compete with the behemoth that is Texas. The big problem with doing that is how to make up for lost revenue? Doing it by putting a sales tax on every service imaginable or raising property taxes both seem to be unacceptable. At any rate, having a very low cost of living index doesn't come with a cool image. Who wants to move to Mississippi or Arkansas?

[mugofbeer]

There are two main problems. One, is we're competing with Texas, and the other is we're competing with fad states such as Oregon and Colorado. Oklahoma has a lot to offer, but without marketing, many people won't know about it.

I was in OKC this last weekend and drove around the Heritage Hills area looking at Christmas lights. We pulled a profile sheet from a home for sale that was selling for less than our nice, but modest home in the Denver burbs. The same HH home in Denver would be $1.5 to 2 million. Being in a "fad" city is nice if you have been here, but if someone wants to move here from anywhere other than CA or Seattle, bring your wallet AND credit cards!

[BG918]

Who wants to move to Mississippi or Arkansas?

I agree with the exception of NW Arkansas which is growing rapidly and is a great area.

[dcsooner]

The notion that low cost of living is a plus is suspect. Low COL reflects low salaries, which come from low wage Jobs which require low education which results in low tax base which results in low tax receipts (unless you do like OKC ) and add a .05 cent tax.

All those places with high cost of living also generally have higher wages, more educated populations and greater services thus people STILL flock to those places. NY may be losing population but NYC isn't. Same with Seattle, LA, SF, DC other high cost cities. Poor people do struggle in those places but the highly educated thrive due to HIGH wage jobs following

[jonny d]

The notion that low cost of living is a plus is suspect. Low COL reflects low salaries, which come from low wage Jobs which require low education which results in low tax base which results in low tax receipts (unless you do like OKC ) and add a .05 cent tax.

All those places with high cost of living also generally have higher wages, more educated populations and greater services thus people STILL flock to those places. NY may be losing population but NYC isn't. Same with Seattle, LA, SF, DC other high cost cities. Poor people do struggle in those places but the highly educated thrive do to HIGH wage jobs following

There are quite a few highly educated homeless people in PDX right now. The salaries are not commiserate with the COL in most areas. Hence why there are so many more homeless people in expensive cities.

[dcsooner]

There are quite a few highly educated homeless people in PDX right now. The salaries are not commiserate with the COL in most areas. Hence why there are so many more homeless people in expensive cities.

Last I checked PDX and Oregon is growing at a pretty good clip

[Bunty]

I agree with the exception of NW Arkansas which is growing rapidly and is a great area.

Yeah, too bad how Wal-Mart and Tyson weren't founded in Oklahoma.