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Thread: Nichols Hills Plaza

  1. #151

    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    will they bring back the lunch counter at the new location? i miss going to this with my kids.

  2. #152

    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    So why has there been no media reporting on this project?

  3. Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    Because I'm on a much needed vacation - heard about it on Friday. Will report next week.

  4. #154

    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    Because I'm on a much needed vacation - heard about it on Friday. Will report next week.
    Enjoy your vacation Steve and we'll look forward to your story when it comes out. Spartan probably never takes a vacation. LOL

  5. #155

    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    Of course I take vacations...to OKC :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    Because I'm on a much needed vacation - heard about it on Friday. Will report next week.
    Is this really your beat to worry about? I didn't mean to implicate you Steve Lol

  6. Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    Meh, no offense taken. By default, it pretty much ends up on my watch... difficult to explain... I look forward to another really good reporter joining the business desk next week .... as an aside, please forgive me in advance if I don't do a good job at moderating or finding the right pitch in my comments on OKC Talk right now. I've caught myself a couple of times typing up comments that were too "edgy" or blunt. I'm a human being like everyone else, prone to good times and bad times. And let's just say, I'm needing this time off.

  7. #157

    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCTalker View Post
    ...
    Is Nichols Hills going to have their own Crossroads Mall by the time this is over?
    Nah, but they might be wishing it was at least as good as CRM once all the smoke clears.

  8. #158
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    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinpate View Post
    Nah, but they might be wishing it was at least as good as CRM once all the smoke clears.
    That location with those demographics will never be like Crossroads Mall. When Aubrey is through playing with it, someone else will buy it up and fill it up.

  9. #159

    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    Recent photos of the old Crescent Market space.

    Still no real interior build-out but the exterior will look very similar to the far west end which now houses CK & Company.

    The last photo was taken inside the space looking out towards the parking lot.










  10. #160

    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    Another one of the old Crescent space:


  11. Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Another one of the old Crescent space:

    Looks like they are making slow progress on it.

    That picture from the inside looking out on the christmas lights looks sharp.

  12. #162

    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    More uncertainty about this shopping area being created by Chesapeake.

    Drugstore to leave Nichols Hills Plaza after 49 years | NewsOK.com

  13. #163

    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    Great article by Steve!

    After the loss of Crescent Market, sales tax collections for Nichols Hills dropped 17 percent, for the year ending June 30, 2011, when compared to the same period the previous year, Oklahoma Tax Commission records show.
    And when you throw in the loss of the lunch counter and now the complete loss of the drug store, you know that number is higher now.

    That's huge for the City of NH which has almost no other source of income.


    Nice job Chesapeake! Chased out two very unique 50-year institutions and have left a bunch of empty space and a huge revenue hole for NH for about two years and counting.


    Thank goodness they at least put in Classen Curve and Whole Foods before this whole thing started to turn south, which we all saw coming from a mile away.

  14. #164

    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    Crescent Market was 122 years old, but their closure can't be totally blamed on Chesapeake.

    What you CAN blame Chesapeake for is tossing Crescent out before a successor grocer was ready to go, with ink dry on the new lease. And also for setting up the NH city council members - they were duped into believing that the deal was done, and it wasn't. They won't make that same mistake twice.

  15. #165

    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    Yes, but Whole Foods and Classen Curve are located outside of Nichols Hills and the drugstore will be too. Nice corporate neighbors, CHK!

  16. #166

    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCTalker View Post
    Crescent Market was 122 years old, but their closure can't be totally blamed on Chesapeake.

    What you CAN blame Chesapeake for is tossing Crescent out before a successor grocer was ready to go, with ink dry on the new lease. And also for setting up the NH city council members - they were duped into believing that the deal was done, and it wasn't. They won't make that same mistake twice.
    if the NH city council had not pushed back against CHK all of NHP would be redone right now and they would have a much bigger tax base .. and they would have a new city hall

  17. #167

    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
    if the NH city council had not pushed back against CHK all of NHP would be redone right now and they would have a much bigger tax base .. and they would have a new city hall
    Or, the whole place could be a grassy lot with no money to rebuild, as is the case with tons of their other properties in the immediate area.

  18. #168

    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Paseofreak View Post
    Yes, but Whole Foods and Classen Curve are located outside of Nichols Hills and the drugstore will be too. Nice corporate neighbors, CHK!
    And Starbucks is reportedly moving to Classen Curve. That will hurt the NH tax base as well.

  19. #169

    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
    if the NH city council had not pushed back against CHK all of NHP would be redone right now and they would have a much bigger tax base .. and they would have a new city hall
    NH council asked for project specifics from CHK which is what every other city council asks of every developer around the country. But CHK did what they always do - they refused - and so they were turned down. You can't hang this one on the city of NH. Remember, Hoffman and Clements trusted CHK's word on the grocery deal, and look where that got them.

    As far as CHK "getting things done," they move more slowly on their real estate projects than any other developer out there, whether it's their parking garages, on-campus construction, off-campus renovation, or retail at CC and the Triangle. There may be a few exceptions, but they are otherwise secretive plodders who can't be taken at their word.

  20. #170

    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    IIRC, as I lived there at the time, there was opposition from some residents (as I believe Aubrey originally intended to put Whole Foods there) who feared that changes to the Plaza would increase traffic. They also objected to plans to put some parking immediately north of the Plaza on the south side of Fenwick, as well as plans for a 3rd residential floor. What usually happens in NH is that residents, who have an inordinate amount of power relative to OKC, are able to block changes they fear. It doesn't require much in the way of numbers to stop action there. What they didn't think about was that their beloved police and fire departments, who are extraordinarily efficient and helpful, are funded by water sales and sales taxes at the Plaza and the Oklahoma City Golf and Country Club. What they should fear is the possibility that the city won't be able to afford those services if a significant amount of revenue once generated by the Plaza is lost.

  21. #171

    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    In my opinion, NHP would be the perfect place for Trader Joe's.

  22. #172

    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    So the more I read about this, the more I realize how we as a society are doomed to do the same stupid things over and over again. When I read about Nichols Hills Plaza I am reminded so much about what I have read about OKC and its Pei Plan of the 1970's. With the Pei Plan the problem as far as I can tell wasn't so much the architectural / city-scape plan or whatever you call it, after all it was put together by a world-class innovator, and it really wasn't even so much the destruction of buildings downtown (let's be honest, most were dilapidated and architecturally uninteresting). The reason the plan was a failure was because it was far too monolithic in its approach. In other words step 1. plan, step 2. destroy everything, step 3. figure out who's going to commit to move in downtown, step 4. build everything. With a plan like that there is no room for error... you go off the rails at any point and you are just screwed. That's what happened to OKC... it lost its money and potential corporate backing when O&G went south, and so "step 2" happened and we never saw anything after that. This is exactly the same scenario as what is happening in Nichols Hills. It's even the same industry. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see and try to avoid the same problems we've come across in the past.... Also, I agree with Pete. NH is lucky that CHK didn't take a hit sooner... could have left all of NH in a pretty terrible condition. Can you imagine where NH would be at if all of this had happened as they were clearing ground for Classen Curve and Whole Foods? If anything all such projects should be done in manageable phases, and with lots of transparency. Learn from the past....

  23. #173
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    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by betts View Post
    IIRC, as I lived there at the time, there was opposition from some residents (as I believe Aubrey originally intended to put Whole Foods there) who feared that changes to the Plaza would increase traffic. They also objected to plans to put some parking immediately north of the Plaza on the south side of Fenwick, as well as plans for a 3rd residential floor. What usually happens in NH is that residents, who have an inordinate amount of power relative to OKC, are able to block changes they fear. It doesn't require much in the way of numbers to stop action there. What they didn't think about was that their beloved police and fire departments, who are extraordinarily efficient and helpful, are funded by water sales and sales taxes at the Plaza and the Oklahoma City Golf and Country Club. What they should fear is the possibility that the city won't be able to afford those services if a significant amount of revenue once generated by the Plaza is lost.
    So, if I am reading and interpreting correctly what you are saying is that the people of NH shot themselves in the foot. While I liked Crescent, it was not necessarily keeping up. All the Chesapeake haters will still blame them, but Crescent and the people of NH were very myopic also. NH wants NO change. They want NO inconvenience. But they want the money.

    This is a perfect example how narrow minded protectionism can not only impede progress, but can incur debilitating consequences.

  24. #174
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    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Questor View Post
    So the more I read about this, the more I realize how we as a society are doomed to do the same stupid things over and over again. When I read about Nichols Hills Plaza I am reminded so much about what I have read about OKC and its Pei Plan of the 1970's. With the Pei Plan the problem as far as I can tell wasn't so much the architectural / city-scape plan or whatever you call it, after all it was put together by a world-class innovator, and it really wasn't even so much the destruction of buildings downtown (let's be honest, most were dilapidated and architecturally uninteresting). The reason the plan was a failure was because it was far too monolithic in its approach. In other words step 1. plan, step 2. destroy everything, step 3. figure out who's going to commit to move in downtown, step 4. build everything. With a plan like that there is no room for error... you go off the rails at any point and you are just screwed. That's what happened to OKC... it lost its money and potential corporate backing when O&G went south, and so "step 2" happened and we never saw anything after that. This is exactly the same scenario as what is happening in Nichols Hills. It's even the same industry. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see and try to avoid the same problems we've come across in the past.... Also, I agree with Pete. NH is lucky that CHK didn't take a hit sooner... could have left all of NH in a pretty terrible condition. Can you imagine where NH would be at if all of this had happened as they were clearing ground for Classen Curve and Whole Foods? If anything all such projects should be done in manageable phases, and with lots of transparency. Learn from the past....
    Do you think the people of NH would even care if there are holes south of them? They only wanted the inconvenience of retail on one outlying corner of their incorporation. They wanted shopping and tax dollars, but no traffic at all. The only outside visitors they wanted to the neighborhood were the dollars. Their protectionism bit them in the butt.

  25. #175

    Default Re: Nichols Hills Plaza

    Don't make the mistake of painting NH residents (or those of any neighborhood) are one-dimensional, myopic, short-sighted or greedy. They're no different than anyone else - they want to know the facts, to have a say in the outcome, for their elected officials to adhere to a master plan of some kind, to pay a reasonable amount in taxes and fees, and for developers to complete their projects promptly and efficiently.

    It is now clear that CHK doesn't share information willingly, they don't keep their promises, they're not very good at retail development, they can't profitably operate retail properties, and none of their neighbors are happy. Hopefully their non-core property sales will continue, and this real estate episode will be an all-but-forgotten chapter in their corporate history.

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