Convention Center

[hoya]

I like this idea a lot more. But man do these guys have a one track mind.

I know the current thinking is that the south Clayco development will never happen. But I wonder if the city could coordinate with them to make the Omni hotel (guessing they'll be the ones to get it) part of that development. It would seem that the city could finance part of it, Omni could finance part of it, the parking garage in the center could be covered with TIF funds, Clayco could finance part, and we might get 2 or 3 towers on that south block out of it.

[Tier2City]

Unacceptable. Lengthens the walk to Bricktown.

Still, I suppose we get the Harvey Spine back.

[Pete]

Unacceptable. Lengthens the walk to Bricktown.

Only from the hotel.

The convention center is exactly where it was originally proposed.

[PhiAlpha]

Unacceptable. Lengthens the walk to Bricktown.

Still, I suppose we get the Harvey Spine back.

If it's on the street car route, it shouldn't matter that much.

[Tier2City]

Luckily for you Urbanized hasn't seen your apostasy yet.

[Teo9969]

If it's on the street car route, it shouldn't matter that much.

The street car will be useless for Bricktown from this location or really any other potential location because of the route layout. By the time you get to the first East-Bound stop, you're 2 blocks away from Bricktown and you actually lose time by waiting 5 minutes for the Street Car to pass by and pick you up.

It will be super useful for Midtown though.

[David]

The meeting has started, and Steve and Ben are live-tweeting it. No periscope stream that I can find, though.

[gopokes88]

The street car will be useless for Bricktown from this location or really any other potential location because of the route layout. By the time you get to the first East-Bound stop, you're 2 blocks away from Bricktown and you actually lose time by waiting 5 minutes for the Street Car to pass by and pick you up.

It will be super useful for Midtown though.

Yeah but to a tourist downtown I bet it's a cool enough novelty they take it anyway.

[musg8411]

deleted

[Teo9969]

Yeah but to a tourist downtown I bet it's a cool enough novelty they take it anyway.

Depends on where there from. If they're from any city that is walkable and or has good public transit, they won't take it because they'll know it's a waste of time. Unless it's raining, and then they'll welcome the opportunity.

If they're from a city that has terrible public transit, they may not take it because they may not know how it functions or be able to read a transit map.

[gopokes88]

Depends on where there from. If they're from any city that is walkable and or has good public transit, they won't take it because they'll know it's a waste of time. Unless it's raining, and then they'll welcome the opportunity.

If they're from a city that has terrible public transit, they may not take it because they may not know how it functions or be able to read a transit map.

I took it NOLA for the novelty as well as SF.
Outside of the NE, NW, Chicago, and SF public transportation isn't really a way of life for Americans.

Reading a transit map isn't what I would call hard by any stretch. London has the most complex transit system in the world and I navigated home my first night at 3am using a tube map.

[Urbanized]

Luckily for you Urbanized hasn't seen your apostasy yet.

Shows how much attention you have paid to the actual WORDS that I have posted on this topic. If it happens the way Pete shows here, it will happen almost exactly the way I've said for months that it could/should happen. If we are truly limited to the remaining sites in the consultant's list, this is the best possible scenario to ensure the success of MAPS 3's most expensive project.

[Urbanized]

If it's on the street car route, it shouldn't matter that much.

Streetcar won't really help much as it relates to Bricktown, as has been pointed out, due to headway. The good news is that Bricktown remains marginally walkable from this location, and - as has also been pointed out - it CAN help convention visitors get to other areas such as Midtown, which will be good for all of downtown and will also help some with CC salability.

The best news is that this location is 10 minute walkable to all of the existing (and proposed) full service hotels in the CBD. This is HUGE for the CC's marketability; I can't stress this enough. Huge.

[Spartan]

why wouldn't you want to get rid of that monolithic piece of crap? If you look down from the top of the Chase building it looks like a Wal Mart regional warehouse. Besides it was never built to the specs for future expansion. Some "Good Old Boy" pocketed the monies.

You're absolutely right that it looks like a Wal-Mart. My problem is that I have ZERO confidence that the new one won't either.

[Stickman]

You're absolutely right that it looks like a Wal-Mart. My problem is that I have ZERO confidence that the new one won't either.

I realize you want the CC south of the arena, your ideas were good also. Unfortunately the "the cat got out of the bag" in Tulsa and certain developers started buying properties in the area(hmmm). Of course there were other problems, grade, sub-station, possible EPA but all in all a good idea.
According to your post #136 you in know way, want any division from the new park, I believe LN wants low structures also. The elephant in the room is the new Blvd. and the lack of concern of proper integration or flow of downtown. I was told 4 years ago under no circumstances did ODOT want interruption of the Blvd. No round- a-bouts, and I'm not talking about the little ones on tenth street but maybe similar to St. Martins or in parts of Europe, or any dead end roads where the tourist would have to get off the Blvd and see downtown, imagine ODOT (government) thinking this way.

To have a large hotel just south of the new OGE tower would make me happy. Remember LN wanted the Hotel to run long ways North and South up close to the arena. Either way the CC will have to have an expansion in the near future.

[betts]

Shows how much attention you have paid to the actual WORDS that I have posted on this topic. If it happens the way Pete shows here, it will happen almost exactly the way I've said for months that it could/should happen. If we are truly limited to the remaining sites in the consultant's list, this is the best possible scenario to ensure the success of MAPS 3's most expensive project.

However you define "success". We'll have a new building, it will be bigger, it will undoubtedly have ugly convention center carpet and be visually bland, and the problems with OKC that limit who might be interested in coming here for a convention remain.

I was at the McCormick Center two weeks ago for my son's graduation from the U of Chicago. It is big, bland and has ugly carpeting. It was nowhere near my hotel or anything I was interested in doing, but we used Uber. Uber has changed the landscape of travel, I believe. In addition, the city of Chicago is so beautiful, in summer, so easy to get to by air and has so much to do that I wouldn't really care where the McCormick Center was located if I were going to a convention there. You practically have to walk as far to get from one part of the building to the other as you would have to walk to get to Bricktown from the area south of the Chesapeake Arena as well. And if you said McCormick Center to the first 100 people you meet outside of Chicago, I bet no more than 5% would have any idea what you were talking about. Millennium Park and the Bean - I bet you'd find a lot more people would get a visual image. Convention Centers matter to very few people outside the Chamber of Commerce.

[stlokc]

Betts-that's really funny. I was at the Booth graduation at McCormick Place also. My main thoughts were: First, Second and Third: how much I love Chicago. But fourth was that that convention center was a logistical nightmare. We took a standard taxi (from the Drake) but it was quite the ordeal.

[jrod]

Worked a convention in Boston a month ago. Things I remember about the CC... 1)Had to walk 7-8 mins to get to/from from my hotel. Didn't mind. 2) inside was ugly as sin 3) outside was okay, I guess. Didn't care. 4) There was one of the country's hottest craft breweries a 5 minute walk away (Trillium). Filled growlers, bought bottles on my lunch break.

#4 was the only thing I actually remember/cared about. I sure would love to own a bar/brewery/restaurant in the Film Row area...

[Spartan]

My experience w conventions is that Pittsburgh's is the only CC that's actually "nice." Cleveland's new one is alright but still u/c. Realistically if you dot have thousands coming, you're so much better off going to a full service historic hotel. OKC needs more of this. Hotels like the Skirvin where you can hold 500-800 people. Columbus, Cleveland, Chicago, New Orleans, Indy, have these on nearly every street corner. In OKC I think the Sheraton is the only contender (which has the standard UDAG Hotel layout from the 70s). I know the top floor at the Skirvin has ballrooms that can maybe seat 120 if I remember right? More ideal for weddings.

I realize you want the CC south of the arena, your ideas were good also. Unfortunately the "the cat got out of the bag" in Tulsa and certain developers started buying properties in the area(hmmm). Of course there were other problems, grade, sub-station, possible EPA but all in all a good idea.
According to your post #136 you in know way, want any division from the new park, I believe LN wants low structures also. The elephant in the room is the new Blvd. and the lack of concern of proper integration or flow of downtown. I was told 4 years ago under no circumstances did ODOT want interruption of the Blvd. No round- a-bouts, and I'm not talking about the little ones on tenth street but maybe similar to St. Martins or in parts of Europe, or any dead end roads where the tourist would have to get off the Blvd and see downtown, imagine ODOT (government) thinking this way.

To have a large hotel just south of the new OGE tower would make me happy. Remember LN wanted the Hotel to run long ways North and South up close to the arena. Either way the CC will have to have an expansion in the near future.

Thanks for the response, I really appreciate it because I had resigned myself to little jabs when I realized nobody cares what I think on this. You're right that I had a vision, but that was just an example for how it could be done right on that site. You could do it right on a few sites, and that site was an easier one on which to do so, whereas this site is honestly a little tougher to do right.

That said, I actually think the latest proposal is palatable. I just still don't see leveraging the expansion to make this work. Why can't the streetcar do that? The streetcar project has been stymied by politics despite carrying MAPS and has the pressure of needing a starter line that will be successful enough to warrant any expansion. This CC faces no such test.

These are huge superblocks on the SW side of downtown and I just see so many clustered together and don't see how we'll do it right. It's not just the CC but also the Myriad, old Cox for the next 20 years, CHK Arena, M3 Park, Clayco site which should've been broken up, and who knows what other superblocks we'll add bc we can't get enough.

Also why are we already resigning ourselves to failure w Clayco? This city hasn't even tried to get a TIF deal done from what I can tell. Stage Center (a historic world renowned ****ing landmark) could have been rehabbed by now for a fraction of the public cost that this TIF will (and should) come to. So why I bring this up is bc OKC is bungling macro-scale project mgmt again (remember P180 y'all?).

In a city that doesn't respect planning, you're doomed to fail at managing the big picture. This damn CC has held big downtown development in limbo since 2009. We would have more stuff come to fruition without this, so it's had the opposite intended effect. Why? Bc nobody knows "their place" in this "process" and the CC interests sensed an opportunity to pounce and take charge of the show.

Also why are limited service hotel flags coming in the way of acquiring a site? Again, tail wagging the dog. We bulldozed a ****ing cool landmark for some TIF towers that now I guess we don't want? Bc this was just decided by somebody I presume? Maybe we want grass there instead so we can frame CC expansion as a 2020 campaign to finally build on the grass?

I literally don't get OKC sometimes. When I connect the dots in the big picture with everything I know it makes my head explode. Sorry for the crazy rant everyone, I feel a little better now! Lol

I would feel better if we could COMPLETE A JOB AS PROMISED.

[betts]

Betts-that's really funny. I was at the Booth graduation at McCormick Place also. My main thoughts were: First, Second and Third: how much I love Chicago. But fourth was that that convention center was a logistical nightmare. We took a standard taxi (from the Drake) but it was quite the ordeal.

That is quite the coincidence! I wonder if our graduates know one another. The logistical nightmare that is McCormick Place doesn't keep many people from going to conventions in Chicago, but logistics are not really why I pick a convention.

And Spartan, amen to your immediately preceding post.

[HOT ROD]

Yep, McCormick is the world's largest convention center and the #1 busiest in the US.

Most of that prestigue is because it's Chicago, but that does tell one something about the thought of making a cc the 'showpiece' of your city rather than businesses/skyscrapers, cultural amenities, urban fabric, and QoL attractions (that Chicago excels in). People may come to Chicago because of the conventions but they stay enjoying the city and leave remembering what Chicago has to offer (with almost no recollection of McCormick other than its huge and out of the way).

[Laramie]

Oklahoma City's central location could become a selling point if we get a good convention center & conference hotel available to service convention planners. Let's not forget that this could eventually impact 'flight service' in & out of WRWA for the future.

The more national & regional conventions OKC attract; the more potential for 'new money' to be circulated into our local economy.

[Laramie]

Maximize OKC's potential to the fullest...

Oklahoma City's central location could become a selling point if we get a good convention center & conference hotel available to service convention planners. Let's not forget that this could eventually impact 'flight service' in & out of WRWA for the future.

The more national & regional conventions OKC attract; the more potential for 'new money' to be circulated into our local economy.

[Stickman]

Spartan talks of limited service hotels, he is right, maybe the 1980's scarred developers. How come Givens and Records (ZaZa) for instance don't consider OKC?
We have come a long way but settling for too many small hotels.

[shawnw]

I was in Phoenix 30 May during comicon and was impressed with their CC, though it may be that I'm just easily impressed.