Convention Center

[kevin lee]

Why does it sound like we're hoping this will happen? I thought this was voted on and was a done deal, with ground breaking pretty soon. Am I missing something?

[Paseofreak]

^ I think these folks are cheering for funding and completion of Phase II and subsidy, if necessary for a big Convention Center Hotel.

[warreng88]

In the new Chamber magazine (page 12) there is an article about the convention center and its support of the toursim industry. Here are a few snippets:

"Tourism in the 3rd largest industry in OKC generating $2.9 billion in domestic travel expenitures within the OKC Metro area."

"The OKC tourism industry experienced even stronger growth during the same time period (December 2007 to December 2013). OKC's hotel inventory increased from 13,500 rooms and 132 hotels in December 2007 to 15,468 rooms and 150 properties in December 2013. Even with 2,000 additional hotel rooms, the OKC occupancy percentage improved from 64.9% in 2007 to 66.4% in 2013. OKC's hotel tax receipts increased by 38.6% from $9.5 million in the 07-08 fiscal year to $13.15 million in the 12-13 fiscal year.

"The OKC CVB works with meeting and convention planners to schedule events in OKC. According to their records, OKC lost 96 events in the past seven years due to the convention center capacity and availability. These events were estimated to generate almost $167 million in direct spending and 7,436 booked room nights per event."

"The new convention center will have an estimated $78 million annual impact, nearly tripling the current annual economic impact of the CCC."

May Point!

[ljbab728]

Condemnation proceedings are beginning.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/4927197?embargo=1

The Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority is moving forward with condemnation of the former Fred Jones Ford dealership property and Ira’s Tire Shop as it seeks to acquire property for a new $250 million convention center.

[Pete]

^

The City couldn't be happy that the Paramount property on Film Row sold recently at such a high price.

It will no doubt skew up the sales comparables and perhaps the total price determined through this legal action.

[Laramie]

^ I think these folks are cheering for funding and completion of Phase II and subsidy, if necessary for a big Convention Center Hotel.

Thank you Paseofreak!

We need to invest in an anchor hotel; one that exceeds the current 700-plus room study. Should this involve a financial incentive to attract a reputable chain? You have to invest to get results. OKC's central location is a plus. Invest in venues that make OKC attractive for conventions. The right conventions bring new money from out-of-state; this will grow OKC's economy.

Study suggests Oklahoma City can support $200 million, 735-room conference hotel | News OK

Plan for the future, support a chain that will build 1,000 rooms to complement the new convention center. Large conventions want a city with a venue capacity to house all of its attendees.

"Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

[BrettM2]

^

The City couldn't be happy that the Paramount property on Film Row sold recently at such a high price.

It will no doubt skew up the sales comparables and perhaps the total price determined through this legal action.

Do we have any idea of how much is too much for this property?

[warreng88]

Do we have any idea of how much is too much for this property?

The city proposed a total budget of $252 million, $17,861,000 of that being used for land acquisition and site prep. The only site prep I could see happening is the closing of SW 2nd and Harvey and the tearing down of the building on the south side of SW 2nd. Not sure what the cost of that would run. Here is a link to the site if you are curious.

City of Oklahoma City | Public Information & Marketing

I would think it that number went up, they would have to dive into that $30 million that Cornett seems so adamant about using to relocate the substation.

[Bullbear]

It is always curious to me that people throw such a fit at the idea of the city giving financial incentive to attract a big name for the Convention center Hotel.. but throwing money at Cabelas and Bass pro is perfectly acceptable.. SMH

[David]

Nobody threw a fit about Cabelas and Bass Pro? I distinctly remember plenty of fits being thrown.

[DoctorTaco]

^

The City couldn't be happy that the Paramount property on Film Row sold recently at such a high price.

It will no doubt skew up the sales comparables and perhaps the total price determined through this legal action.

If the price was so high how did the owner's secure financing? Surely any bank would have gone through the price comps process as well. Unless Garneau is independently wealthy (which I'm pretty sure she is not) she would have to have had financing, right?

[Urban Pioneer]

I can get behind the hotel initiative if it is a quality brand. An Omni or a W. Otherwise, quite frankly, let the free market handle it. As someone who has attended many conventions, had to help coordinate political events, and been a vendor at some, I remain deeply unimpressed with Convention Center Hotels and their often poor management (especially municipally operated partnership hotels).

Plus, Cablelas and Bass Pro is a completely different situation. You are competing for the location for sales tax revenue versus losing it to the suburbs. The convention center hotel is a decision to directly locate and subsidize direct competition with local hoteliers in a specific area and create a project prospectus that does not already exist.

My limited conservatism kicks in. On principal, it is just simply wrong.

So if OKC is going to do this and say screw free market principles, don't half a** it. Bring in something that we can at least be proud we subsidized and is run properly because the partners want to retain their brand standards and brand equity.

[Pete]

If the price was so high how did the owner's secure financing? Surely any bank would have gone through the price comps process as well. Unless Garneau is independently wealthy (which I'm pretty sure she is not) she would have to have had financing, right?

I'm almost certain the previous owner is carrying the note on the Paramount properties.

[_Cramer_]

The city proposed a total budget of $252 million, $17,861,000 of that being used for land acquisition and site prep. The only site prep I could see happening is the closing of SW 2nd and Harvey and the tearing down of the building on the south side of SW 2nd. Not sure what the cost of that would run. Here is a link to the site if you are curious.

City of Oklahoma City | Public Information & Marketing

I would think it that number went up, they would have to dive into that $30 million that Cornett seems so adamant about using to relocate the substation.

Site prep: Does that include moving of utilities and things?

[mkjeeves]

Heywood Sanders' book is out.

"In Convention Center Follies, Heywood Sanders deflates overblown claims that convention centers will contribute to urban economic development and explains why city leaders so easily succumb to these claims. This carefully researched and clearly argued book is an exceptionally important contribution to the study of urban redevelopment and the politics of policy making."—Susan S. Fainstein, author of Policy, Planning, and People: Promoting Justice in Urban Development

"Heywood Sanders describes in rich detail how, beginning in the 1950s and continuing into the twenty-first century, American metropolises have made convention centers key elements in their efforts to revitalize ailing central business districts—and why the billions of dollars spent on the enterprise have yielded such meager results. An eye-opening study written clearly and forcefully, Convention Center Follies is essential reading for anyone interested in understanding the factors that have shaped modern U.S. cities."—Roger Biles, Illinois State University

"Convention Center Follies is political history at its best. Sanders convincingly generalizes across extensive cases and national data to offer a cautionary tale about motives, incentives, and local economic development."—Edward W. Hill, Cleveland State University

Convention Center Follies | Heywood T. Sanders

[Spartan]

It is always curious to me that people throw such a fit at the idea of the city giving financial incentive to attract a big name for the Convention center Hotel.. but throwing money at Cabelas and Bass pro is perfectly acceptable.. SMH

That's okay bc they're cool, they sell guns and fur hats. This is downtown development with complicated economic factors at play.

[Just the facts]

It is always curious to me that people throw such a fit at the idea of the city giving financial incentive to attract a big name for the Convention center Hotel.. but throwing money at Cabelas and Bass pro is perfectly acceptable.. SMH

Here is the difference as I can see it. The City wants a convention hotel and has opened it up to any hotel chain/developer that wants to submit a proposal. Cabelas, from as near as I can tell, whas locating in OKC all on their own and the City never put out a request to all sporting goods retailers to submit their best proposals.

I was an early and vocal supporter of the Bass Pro deal, but I was mistaken. Bass Pro never attracted any related retail development - although I blame a lot of that on poor site development by Randy Hogan (for all of lower Bricktown) and the City by putting a giant parking lot between the building and any adjacent usable areas.

[Larry OKC]

In the new Chamber magazine (page 12) there is an article about the convention center and its support of the toursim industry. Here are a few snippets:

..."The new convention center will have an estimated $78 million annual impact, nearly tripling the current annual economic impact of the CCC."

May Point!

See they are still sticking with the 3 times ... problem is, the math doesn't hold up...the Chamber admitted that 2/3rds of our CC business is LOCAL so to get the 3 times amount (300%), the NEW out of area conventions will have to increase 9 times (900%)! Does anyone honestly think that can happen? Even if it did, are the new facilities even designed for that type of increase? The goal wasn't to become another Vegas or Orlando, but just get up to Tier II???

[betts]

Heywood Sanders' book is out.

"In Convention Center Follies, Heywood Sanders deflates overblown claims that convention centers will contribute to urban economic development and explains why city leaders so easily succumb to these claims. This carefully researched and clearly argued book is an exceptionally important contribution to the study of urban redevelopment and the politics of policy making."—Susan S. Fainstein, author of Policy, Planning, and People: Promoting Justice in Urban Development

"Heywood Sanders describes in rich detail how, beginning in the 1950s and continuing into the twenty-first century, American metropolises have made convention centers key elements in their efforts to revitalize ailing central business districts—and why the billions of dollars spent on the enterprise have yielded such meager results. An eye-opening study written clearly and forcefully, Convention Center Follies is essential reading for anyone interested in understanding the factors that have shaped modern U.S. cities."—Roger Biles, Illinois State University

"Convention Center Follies is political history at its best. Sanders convincingly generalizes across extensive cases and national data to offer a cautionary tale about motives, incentives, and local economic development."—Edward W. Hill, Cleveland State University

Convention Center Follies | Heywood T. Sanders

I will read it but the data had better be better than his "academic" papers.

[warreng88]

See they are still sticking with the 3 times ... problem is, the math doesn't hold up...the Chamber admitted that 2/3rds of our CC business is LOCAL so to get the 3 times amount (300%), the NEW out of area conventions will have to increase 9 times (900%)! Does anyone honestly think that can happen? Even if it did, are the new facilities even designed for that type of increase? The goal wasn't to become another Vegas or Orlando, but just get up to Tier II???

One of the things you need to take into consideration is how much space the CCC currently takes up. The largest exhibit halls take up a total of 100,000 square feet, 80,000 of which is column free. I would estimate the arena itself is bigger than that and it is right in the middle. My understanding is that there were so many conventions that we were missing out on due to our lack of contiguous space and the new convention center will have at least double that in contiguous space. So, in theory, we could host twice the amount of conventions we already hosting since the space would be doubled (again, in theory.) There was an article with a quote by the person that does the bookings for the CCC and took note every time someone called to ask about space that we didn't have due to our lack of size. Now, obviously we probably wouldn't have gotten all of those that called, but the lack of space drove a lot of business away.

[PhiAlpha]

One of the things you need to take into consideration is how much space the CCC currently takes up. The largest exhibit halls take up a total of 100,000 square feet, 80,000 of which is column free. I would estimate the arena itself is bigger than that and it is right in the middle. My understanding is that there were so many conventions that we were missing out on due to our lack of contiguous space and the new convention center will have at least double that in contiguous space. So, in theory, we could host twice the amount of conventions we already hosting since the space would be doubled (again, in theory.) There was an article with a quote by the person that does the bookings for the CCC and took note every time someone called to ask about space that we didn't have due to our lack of size. Now, obviously we probably wouldn't have gotten all of those that called, but the lack of space drove a lot of business away.

I'll say again that I know of at least one regional oil and gas convention that several business leaders here were attempting to bring here but it ended up not working out partially, from what I heard, was due to lack of contiguous convention space. This convention usually brings in between 7,000 and 10,000 people. That can't be the only case where our convention center size has killed our chances to land these things.


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[hoya]

It's not that the new convention center is going to be so amazing that we're suddenly competing with Las Vegas. It's that the current convention center sucks balls.

[pickles]

It's not that the new convention center is going to be so amazing that we're suddenly competing with Las Vegas. It's that the current convention center sucks balls.

Yes.

[metro]

It's not that the new convention center is going to be so amazing that we're suddenly competing with Las Vegas. It's that the current convention center sucks balls.

This.

[Plutonic Panda]

It's not that the new convention center is going to be so amazing that we're suddenly competing with Las Vegas. It's that the current convention center sucks balls.

That.